Animal testing is so wrong!

Originally posted by The thinker
Humans do harm to the planet, there are some 6 billion of us.
Our greed, sucking the earth of recources, killing thousands of animals each day, humans are currently doing nothing good for the planet?
Name one positive thing we have done to this planet? Currently i dont see any use in our population getting any bigger. Animals are decreasing in number as we breed like rabbits. More people on this earth wil make it worse. So yes, i see more value in a chimp than the average person on the street.

You can ask what does a chimp done to the planet, the fact is, it has done nothing. Humans are like a parasite that is infecting the globe.

It is the sick reality of mans greed, we have free will, it is a magnificint gift, yet we dont use it in a positive way.
There is no need for more humans on this earth, so i will place more value on a chimpanzee's life than the average person.

If all of you are willing to place value on human life, then i have the right to place value on a simple animal like a buck.

Any argument you made should now be ignored for the following reasons given in this post:

Many rash generalizations:
To condemn an entire race based on the actions of a percentage (even the majority) is a rash judgement that is neither well thought out or acceptable. People are killing and destroying the planet, I therefore justify the killing of your family and the entire population of your continent. See the lapse in logic there? It is foolish.

I have just demonstrated that emotions can warp the truth of the actual situation, so in fact, there is no flaw in my arguement and you gave me no reason.

Stupid questions:
Stupid questions such as"Name one positive thing we have done to this planet?" are those asked by smallminded people or very young individuals incapable of thinking an argument through. There have been many advances that have benifited animal populations and environments of the earth. Has the human population done alot of damage? Hell yess. But that does not negate their contributions.

Hypocrisy:
You took exception to the fact that I used an emotionally based arguement, then you proceed to go on an emotional rant.

What we really have to do is to decide between Animal and Human life...and I'm sorry, the Human wins every time.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Any argument you made should now be ignored for the following reasons given in this post:

Many rash generalizations:
To condemn an entire race based on the actions of a percentage (even the majority) is a rash judgement that is neither well thought out or acceptable. People are killing and destroying the planet, I therefore justify the killing of your family and the entire population of your continent. See the lapse in logic there? It is foolish.

I have just demonstrated that emotions can warp the truth of the actual situation, so in fact, there is no flaw in my arguement and you gave me no reason.

Stupid questions:
Stupid questions such as"Name one positive thing we have done to this planet?" are those asked by smallminded people or very young individuals incapable of thinking an argument through. There have been many advances that have benifited animal populations and environments of the earth. Has the human population done alot of damage? Hell yess. But that does not negate their contributions.

Hypocrisy:
You took exception to the fact that I used an emotionally based arguement, then you proceed to go on an emotional rant.

Your arguement is not valid in the sense that you cant grasp the concept that we have done more harm than good. Yes, we may contributed a few positive things to the planet, but over all, we have still done more harm than good. So my point still stands.

With your comment about killing my entire family and my entire continent, my emotional response would be agressive, as it is right now. But when I look at it in a logical manner, it is true, the entire continent of people should be killed. It would be better for the planet and the creatures living on it. Like if i were to give an example of a situation where people say,"we have saved endangered species" that is not a good deed. When we wipe out 99% of a species and then allow their species to grow and repopulate in a zoo, that is not a good deed, we are just fixing our mistakes. Over all We have not contributed anything.

A simple little example i can give is one of the human body
When the cells are in order, the body functions well
When there are too many ("cancer cells", the humans), the body is not in order, and can result in the death of( the body, the world.)

people who look at animal testing as a universal evil ignore many facts

one presented the other night was that a method for treating parkinsons disease was tested on about 100 chimps during its entire testing period

the method has now been used to treat over 50,000 people world wide and who's lives are now liveable because of the treatment and many are now productive members of society

and as i have said in the past

if you are against animal testing then dont reap the benefits it has brung

if you go for an operation...i dare you to do it without anesthetic...something only achieved by testing on animals

Originally posted by jaden101
people who look at animal testing as a universal evil ignore many facts

one presented the other night was that a method for treating parkinsons disease was tested on about 100 chimps during its entire testing period

the method has now been used to treat over 50,000 people world wide and who's lives are now liveable because of the treatment and many are now productive members of society

and as i have said in the past

if you are against animal testing then dont reap the benefits it has brung

if you go for an operation...i dare you to do it without anesthetic...something only achieved by testing on animals

Why could'nt we have tested it one 100 humans?
So you do place more value on human life.

Animal research has played a vital role in virtually every major medical advance of the last century. Many major developments that led to Nobel Prizes involved animal research, including the development of penicillin (mice), organ transplant (dogs), and work on poliomyelitis that led to a vaccine (mice, monkeys).

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Animal research has played a vital role in virtually every major medical advance of the last century.

Ahem... millenia?

Ask Galen 🙂

SO?, why not test it one humans, we have far too many

Originally posted by The thinker
Why could'nt we have tested it one 100 humans?
So you do place more value on human life.

if you're so against animal testing then put yourself forward for experimental drug trials...

will you?...no

and here's why

http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/story/0,,1731230,00.html

and once again...do you take full advantage of advances made by animal testing...no doubt you do...

is this hypocrisy?...yes it is

I know, i wont kill myself, i like my life as it is.
I am just pointing out a view
Just because it is a scary concept to deal with, it does not mean that you must not listen to what i have to say. Read my posts, and think logicaly.

I have still got my same view and so do you, so lets abandon the conversation, unless you would like to carry on?

Originally posted by The thinker
I know, i wont kill myself, i like my life as it is.
I am just pointing out a view
Just because it is a scary concept to deal with, it does not mean that you must not listen to what i have to say. Read my posts, and think logicaly.

I have still got my same view and so do you, so lets abandon the conversation, unless you would like to carry on?

i always like to carry on conversations

i personally have no real strong opinions for or against animal cruelty...i just find arguments on principle against it as completely overlooking the huge and undeniable benefits that have come from it

i can almost 100% garauntee that every single person who is against animal testing, even those who stole the body of an animal testers mother from her grave,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/04/nhamm04.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/05/04/ixhome.html

have at some point in their lives reaped the benefits on animal testing

and i cant let that massive hypocrisy go unchallenged

not to mention that there are huge numbers of species that have adapted and thrived through the offshoot of human activity

the gecko's primary habitat is urban because it feeds on insects that are attracted to man made lights

the urban gull has thrived and now feeds also at night because of human population allowing it to do so...thus there survival rate from birth is 90%

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Animal research has played a vital role in virtually every major medical advance of the last century. Many major developments that led to Nobel Prizes involved animal research, including the development of penicillin (mice), organ transplant (dogs), and work on poliomyelitis that led to a vaccine (mice, monkeys).

If I might interject here, in the Nazi Concentratinon Camps they found the cures to numours diseases by testing and experimentation on Jewish Prisoners.

Is it then, according to the Thinker, acceptable to take humans, beings of much greater thought and emotional capability than any other creature on the planet and experiment on them to find cures for diseases all because in general humans have done more harm to the planet than good?

If this was the case then will he be supporting termites for political office in the next election as they do much more good for the planet than all the humans of the world combined...does that Termite have more rights?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Gimme the interpretation of this that doesn't say than men rule over women:

"To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you." "

That was clearly inserted by males...but

where would men be without women?

Spoiler:
Back in the Garden of Eden...

I saw a video once of some Black market fur coat makers who pretty much tortured dogs and cats they just kidnapped and laughed about it while they skinned them

It was probobly the sickest thing i've ever seen in my life.

Imagine being put into a very small cage with 10 other humans and being thrown off of a tall truck. Then being beaten, tortured and skined for some corrupt bastard to make money off of 😘 😠

It makes me ashamed to be a human being when I see sh*t like this. As well as a video of how KFC treats their chickens by cutting their beaks off for no reason.

When I see this it makes me wonder if PETA isnt just a bunch of crazy terrorists and that scares me

animal testing should be done on human beings who take the internet too seriously

Just to clear something up. All those things that some people say should be done instead of animal testing is actually done, but in addition to the animal testing.

Order of research tests:

1- research, this involves checking previously published results about similar compounds and how it should be expected to react with living tissues

2- cell cultures and protein assays. tests are done both in vivo and in vitro to see if the target protein is affected and if there are any other unanticipated effects of the test compound.

3- animal testing. Animals aren't really used until after the previous research is done. Again this checks for side effects and to verify functionality

4- clinical trials. You could also call this human testing. Volunteers are given the compound/treatment. This makes sure that any side effects that are human only are caught before the drug/treatment is approved by the FDA.

The only argument against animal testing that I think has any merit is that humans and animals do react differently at times to some drugs/procedures. The present model works great for catching side effects before they go to human trials, but neglects the possibility that an animal could experience a side effect that the human wouldn't.

The approval process works great for what it is intended though - making sure new drugs and procedures are safe before they are released to the general public. I just wish that it worked faster.