"a Prophecy that Misread, could have been"

Originally posted by Alliance
No, but imo the jedi f-ed thing up a lot too, like during the Mando wars and the Clone Wars. Balance (in general) means both sides are equal, with niether one outcompeting the other.

How is it balanced by only having one side in control? Its like a dictatorship, where everythign is happy because everone is forced to have one opinion. This also breeds rebellion, which could be molded to the perspectvie of sith/darksiders, construed to be "unbalancing" from the jedi point of view.

I like the word stable better, but then why did Lucas use "balance"?

Because you are looking at it wrong.

It is not two natural competing forces. It is one force that is meant to be there, and one that is not. The Light Side is what is meant to be. The Dark Side is nothing but evil and corruption to it. The Light Side IS the force of balance- things are balanced when it is in power. The Dark Side imbalances, by its very nature.

No legitimate points form your post at all. It only works if you are trying to personally re-write GL's own cosmology, which is not smart.

If you want to create your own story world where things work the way you want it, do so. But it is not so here.

its like throwing a stone into a calm pond. it disrupts the balance. the pond being the force and the stone being the darkside.

Well let me give you all my take on this. The Jedi have an understanding and a respect for both sides of the force. The do study the darkside to a point to understand the coruption of power it can bring. They respect that the gift they are given to them is not only for them but to help everyone that may be in need. They can respect the darkside for what it has and can cause. Now the Sith on the other hand can not see the Force as a gift to help others. They do not respect it, that way. The force to them is a way of gaining more power and controling those around them. They in no way understand or respect the lightside of the force. So to kind of sum it all up. The Jedi are balanced in thier teachings and understandings of the force. Light and Darkside are respected. Balance. While the Sith have no intentions of understanding or respecting what the Jedi do. They believe that the dark side is the only way to go. Lightside is forgotten. Darkside is respected. Unbalanced. They never say the force is unbalanced. They say there is unbalance in the force. Meaning something within the force is not balanced, not the force it's self

Originally posted by Alliance
Why can't I question? I think I have raised legitimate points.

fact: lucas created star wars
fact: lucas decides what is fact and what is false in star wars.
fact: lucas has stated that 'balance' refers to the death of the sith.
fiction: this is all up for questioning, since maybe someone knows more about the plot than the man who created it.

sorry for the harshness, but this topic has been posted many many times.
and all those times i have posted quotes from george frikin lucas
which states just what we have been saying: balance=no sith.
and then what? people refuse to accept it.
thats not 'questioning' in an intelligent manner, thats just being obtuse in the face of fact. 😬

I know Lucas' rights as the author to define what he meant. But, he did create a piece of art. All forms of art, literature, visual art, theatre, fim, etc, are constantly analyzed. They mean different things to different people and you can analyze works different ways, especially with literature (which is closely tied to SW). YOu can arrive at different interpretations, ones the author didn't intend, but if they're backed up its fine. THis is the concept behind the classic liberal arts paper.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
It is not two natural competing forces. It is one force that is meant to be there, and one that is not. The Light Side is what is meant to be. The Dark Side is nothing but evil and corruption to it. The Light Side IS the force of balance- things are balanced when it is in power. The Dark Side imbalances, by its very nature.

I know Lucas created SW, but that doesnt mean he's infallible. He can make mistakes just like everybody else, and may not always see a different point of view (which may be just as credible) on his own work. Lucas has clerly not always had a clear grasp of his plot, there have been a thousand pointeless threads on these things.

I'm sorry, but everytime I bring this arguement, people just usualy slam the book in my face and say "Lucas said so." I don't buy the dogma that only the artist can interpret his work, especially with such a pop figure as SW.

Originally posted by Darth Vindicus
The Jedi have an understanding and a respect for both sides of the force. The do study the darkside to a point to understand the coruption of power it can bring.

And what defines lightside powers anyway. Do push and pull etc count as those? Becuase we have seen darksiders use those. Only things like force lightning and force choke have really been seen as "dark side only" powers.

Originally posted by Alliance

I'm sorry, but everytime I bring this arguement, people just usualy slam the book in my face and say "Lucas said so."

yeah, i get that problem when i try to convince people that the world is flat. then they start up with their damn globes and nasa satellite photos.

The shape of the earth is a fact. What we are talking about is art.

Originally posted by Alliance
The shape of the earth is a fact. What we are talking about is art.

no, because a fact of the plotline is that the situation is resolved at the conclusion: anakin has brought balance to the force by destroying the sith. you imply that the resolution of the saga is false and that basically the good guys failed utterly because now the force is not in balance.
thats ridiculous.

If the situation was resolved, why do the sith return?

To me the end of the saga was balanced because you had a new fledgeling jedi order and a new fledging sith order. Neither had control.

Originally posted by Alliance
If the situation was resolved, why do the sith return?

they return? *grabs rotj dvd and watches ending* nope...just alot of singing and dancing and cheering and all that corney shit...but no sith ❌

Originally posted by Alliance
If the situation was resolved, why do the sith return?

To me the end of the saga was balanced because you had a new fledgeling jedi order and a new fledging sith order. Neither had control.

So this is the Sith who are 'fledgling' in the sense of 'extinct', huh?

No wonder you have trouble with facts- you can't even see them as clearly presented.

They all died. That's kinda the point of the films.

No, you do not get the right to re-interpret. Han Solo's name is not Msrtha, AT-ATs are not made of jelly, and Balance works the way GL says, not you. Speculate about things that are unknown or umnclear, but this is neither. In Star Wars terms, it is cold, hard fact. Feel free to not like what GL says- but he speaks with absolute authority over his creation.

I don't know where you got your idea of the Force from, but what is presented here is how it is.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
AT-ATs are not made of jelly

are you sure?

I can't belive you guys thing you can look at a piece of art and enforce one dogmatic interpretation.

Originally posted by Alliance
I can't belive you guys thing you can look at a piece of art and enforce one dogmatic interpretation.

this isnt a van gogh. this is a story with a structured plot.
a story with good guys and bad guys, and in the end the good guys
win and peace ensues and everyone has a massive orgy to celebrate.
the finality of such a story is that everything is set right, therefore you are wrong.
but feel free to misinterpret the films if you wish, whatever helps you
enjoy them to the fullest. just dont expect anyone to buy what you're seling.

how is it that different. Literature has different interpretations, as do filme. Its all art.

I think Lucas' interpretation is childish and simple minded and that there are elements in his films that don't support it. Right is a point of view, its not some infallible iron plate you cant see around.

Interpretation is not misinterpretation, at least I look into the films as opposed to just blindly repeating what someone else said. You're welcome to your opinon as well. Just don't expect everyone to have your opinon.

Originally posted by Alliance
I think Lucas' interpretation is childish and simple minded and that there are elements in his films that don't support it.

the fanboy battlecry. i will cherish this quote always 😱

You can interpret the characters, things that aren't clear (You could say Luke's gay, for instance), but you can't change things that are clearly outlined by the author. It's like saying that LOTR ends up with Sauron winning. That's simply not true. All you're doing is saying what you'd like it to be.

Originally posted by Trickster
You can interpret the characters, things that aren't clear (You could say Luke's gay, for instance), but you can't change things that are clearly outlined by the author. It's like saying that LOTR ends up with Sauron winning. That's simply not true. All you're doing is saying what you'd like it to be.

Originally posted by PVS
the fanboy battlecry. i will cherish this quote always 😱

The nature of the force i think can be very up for debate, its never specificalyl said in the movies thatits this way. In ROTS, the deleted scenes Kenobi says "There is a massive shift in the force, we all feel it." He didn't say the force is becoming unbalanced because the dark side is ganing power, its a power shift. as sb86 said, its a point of view.

Originally posted by Alliance
I can't belive you guys thing you can look at a piece of art and enforce one dogmatic interpretation.

I cannot believe you can forget the Sith were wiped out in ROTJ. I know which issue is the more troublesome here.

If you think Lucas' vision is childish, fine, though I strongly disagree. But that does not change the factual cosmology of the film. We are not talking about what balance is in real life, whatever that would be. We are talking about what it is in Star Wars, which makes it EXACTLY what GL says it is.

"To have a balance you HAVE to have two sides"

In Star Wars terms, that is wrong! And a misunderstanding of the concept of Balance within it.

Seeing Balance in a ying/yang 'equal amounts of good and evil' sense is completely wrong. It is not a sense of scales. It is most certainly not a simple matter of one thing being weighed against another (and would not be Ligt vs. Dark if it was), but instead a complex interplay of the way things work. GL sees 'Balance' and 'good' as interchangeable, likewise 'imbalance' and 'evil'. He supports it throughout the films with examples of the good side being symbiotic, living in peace with itself- i.e. being in Balance- and the evil people being parasitic, feeding on themselves, destroying each other- i.e. in Imbalance.

That is how it is in Star Wars. Not how it is merely thought to be. Within the storyline, it is how it IS. No question, no argument. Simple fact.

As for right and wrong being a point of view... no. Absolutely not. NOT in Star Wars. That is at the very heart of Star Wars, the very reason GL created it.

Don't apply the point of view line to EVERYTHING. Obi-Wan was talking about how sometimes the things you know have depended on how you viewed them. But that is NOT a clarion call for universal scepticism.

Star Wars is all about clear divisions of good and evil. It is based on black hat/white hat westerns, as part of that. GL has made a specific quote about the nature of the Force about how things must not become shades of grey- they are clear, black and white.

And as Obi-Wan said to Anakin when he said he thought the Jedi were evil: "Then you are lost."

Palpatine corrupted him to think that. That is the wrong view.