DareDevil for all his senses and abilities is still only as fast and agile as humanly possible.Spider-man is more than human.There's really nothing else that has to be said.Fighting ability only comes into play when you and your opponet are on the same level.I think DD could win at best 3/10 against spidey.Which is rather irrelevant seeing as he has no chance beating Wolverine.
Re: Re: Re: Daredevil Runs The Gauntlet
Originally posted by jrodslam
In my opinion Spidey wouls never tag DD with his webbing. Most likely it would end up h2h cause Spidey would know its useless. I believe Spidey has tried the webbing in 2 fights of the few that they have had. DD is a very humble character and gives others respect. He may have admitted being slower than Spidey which im not disputing, but he still doesnt get tagged by the punches enough to ko him. Spidey has also said that no matter how fast he is, he still cant land a solid hit on DD. Thier most recent fight was a couple of months ago in Black Cats book. They both knocked each other out. Spideys fist time i believe.
not to say it's not relevent, but that was a very old scan. and a wide stream of webbing would most likely tag him if that's what spidey was going for. spidey has tagged superspeedsters in the past -- mongoose for one, but there have been many others. spidey also has a gear he's never used on daredevil before, it's the 'really stupidly fast' gear that he reserves for people he's not afraid he'll actually kill, like morlun or hulk and i think black tarantula iirc. spidey literally becomes a blur and lands dozens, in morlun's case maybe hundreds of shots in seconds. no chance dd would last through a barrage like that. i could post scans, but it's late and you no doubt have seen the attacks in the past. if you want 'em, i could get 'em.
you're also assuming this 'one-touch-death-thing' would:
a) HIT him. spidey's sense would scream dodge, unlike dd's regular punches which wouldn't register as truly large threats
b) that it COULD kill him. don't forget -- spidey is SIGNIFICANTLY more durable and heals much quicker than a normal human, so it is likely arguable at least that this one-touch shot would kill him.
'fraid, much as i like dd, (and that fall from grace arc was one of the best 2 or 3 arcs i have in my entire collection, imo) i still side with the majority in this one and gotta go with spidey. 😬
Re: Re: Re: Re: Daredevil Runs The Gauntlet
Originally posted by leonidas
not to say it's not relevent, but that was a very old scan. and a wide stream of webbing would most likely tag him if that's what spidey was going for. spidey has tagged superspeedsters in the past -- mongoose for one, but there have been many others. spidey also has a gear he's never used on daredevil before, it's the 'really stupidly fast' gear that he reserves for people he's not afraid he'll actually kill, like morlun or hulk and i think black tarantula iirc. spidey literally becomes a blur and lands dozens, in morlun's case maybe hundreds of shots in seconds. no chance dd would last through a barrage like that. i could post scans, but it's late and you no doubt have seen the attacks in the past. if you want 'em, i could get 'em.you're also assuming this 'one-touch-death-thing' would:
a) HIT him. spidey's sense would scream dodge, unlike dd's regular punches which wouldn't register as truly large threats
b) that it COULD kill him. don't forget -- spidey is SIGNIFICANTLY more durable and heals much quicker than a normal human, so it is likely arguable at least that this one-touch shot would kill him.
'fraid, much as i like dd, (and that fall from grace arc was one of the best 2 or 3 arcs i have in my entire collection, imo) i still side with the majority in this one and gotta go with spidey. 😬
Very impressive Leo I have never seen you argue for Spidey before.
😮
spidey is usually in good hands. 🙂 truth be told, it's likely i know more about spidey than any other character in comics. but there are usually a bunch of people jumping to his defense, so i don't chime in all that often. normally i'd argue for dd in most battles, just not in this case . . . 😬
they're 2 of my all-time faves. 😉
Originally posted by HellMaster93
Folks saying DD would be too slow... not necessarily. in a classic issue when the Fantastic 4 believed DD to be Doom in Murdock's body, DD managed to evade the Human torch who was flying at him AND TRYING TO KILL HIM.
A popular character survived an unlikely scenario? that could be just thanks to C.I.S ✅
Originally posted by jrodslam
And so, what your point? DD always says stuff like "IF he lands a hit like that its over for me!". Yet Spiderman NEVER does lol. Daredevil has never fought Lizard, but im sure he could find a way to beat him and he already foght Venom in a stalemate. Plus Daredevil beats Hyde on a regular basis. Saying who Spidey beat and wondering if DD can beat them are nulled in this fight. The two have fought many times and Spidey just has trouble with DD. Simple.
My point was that DD has beaten opponents physically superior to himself, granted, but spidey has beaten some of the same guys whilst injured!!!! Plus spidey has beaten guys much stronger than himself who would be even more out of DD's league than spidey already is.
Oh and lizard vs DD????? Lizard wins 10/10
Originally posted by jrodslam
Daredevil has done the same, and he doesnt even naturally have superhuman speed, reflexes etc. That alone is an indication of how superior DD's senses are to Spideys one. Hes fast enough to where Spidey cant even knock him out. Spiderman! Hes fast enough to roll with punches to where people like Namor and Hulk struggle to ko him. If he had the durability, hed be beyone Wolverine level.😖hifty:
So by your logic because DD has dodged similar things to spidey, DD has better senses???? Sorry but that's rubbish. There are countless factors that could come into play for DD being able to dodge similar things, and the fact that spidey dodges the same thing and DD himself admits spidey is by far physically superior to him, that suggests the reversal of what you have said.
Originally posted by jrodslam
In fights with Spidey, DD has known when Spidey was going to jump. Hes known when Spidey was gonna swing. DD was sooo confident in his senses that he was willing to ALLOW Spiderman to get a hit on him just so he can catch a breather. Them immediately after that hit, which still didnt ko him, he was ready again.
So DD used his superior reflexes to have the time work out how to avoid all this right???? Oh no wait DD is physically inferior in every way. It almost suggests that in previous encounters the writers have hyped a popular character up to give him a chance against Spidey, but that would never happen right???? 🙄
Originally posted by jrodslam
DD acts instinctively just like Spidey. He alreadsy knows what the person is going to do beforehand so he just acts on it. While bullets or laser are already being fired the only thing he usually thinks about is how to stop the person. Hes not thinking about how to dodge it.😬
DD's radar sense tells him who or what is in his immediate surroundings. It doesn't tell him if its a threat or not. DD must deduce that it is a threat, then decide how to react, then to execute that reaction.
The spider-sense tells spidey what to do to react, then spidey must execute that reaction. Spidey skips the whole step of deciding how to react, that's the purpose of the spider-sense. You may say it will only take a split second for DD to go through his senses to react, but the same can be said for spidey who can also utilise superhuman physical attribute, to give him a clear edge in this fight.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Is Spidey doesnt know the danger, how can he jsut take action?
I was referring to him taking action to avoid the threat, and how his spider-sense does it for him.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Spiderman relies more on his agility and reflexes to avoid the danger. He relies on the senses to know of a danger and try to locate it IF it doesnt already present itself. DD has to decide how to react? Before a trigger is even pulled DD knows when and where the shot is going to be. He doesnt think of how to dodge it., He usually thiks of what moves to do to diable to person witout breaking all the bones in their hand. Bullets move in slow motion to him so dodging is as easy and quick as breathing.
He may do it subconsciously or he may have trained himself to react that way, but it's still DD's thought process and it's still a longer one than Spidey's spider-sense which is instinctive and coupled with his reflexes, much faster.
Originally posted by jrodslam
DD's senses put his reflexes with Spiderman's. His fighting ability that allows him to roll with punches would always and always have nulled Spidermans strength. Its already nulled Hulks, Namors and Things strength. theres not assuming DD can dodge a guy whos faster and stronger than him cause hes done it countless times in the past. Same for Spiderman.
"DD senses put his reflexes with spider-man's"???????? Why cos you say so??? 😕 If spider-man operated at peak human reflexes I'd be inclined to agree with you, but he is much quicker than that.
And don't tell me you think DD can hang with the likes of Thing, Hulk or Namor??? 😆 Putting him in the same league as Spidey is far fetched IMO but with Namor? NAMOR FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!! 😆
Originally posted by jrodslam
And tell us all how screwed DD was after? Sure was screwed wasnt he?🙄
I have that issue but i haven't read it in years. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't he barely managed to hold his own against a sloppy Spidey, being affected by numerous illusions and not thinking his is fighting DD???? Then DD goes on to admit how much faster ad better spidey is like in the scan shown. DD then manages to free spidey of the trance through their trust and the shattering of the device????
Such an impressive victory 🙄
Originally posted by willRules
My point was that DD has beaten opponents physically superior to himself, granted, but spidey has beaten some of the same guys whilst injured!!!! Plus spidey has beaten guys much stronger than himself who would be even more out of DD's league than spidey already is.Oh and lizard vs DD????? Lizard wins 10/10
DD has also beat opponents who are faster and stronger than him while he was injured. And once again your proving my point by stating how strength doesnt matter in fights if hits cant be landed effectively to knock out the opponent.
And Lizard vd DD?? Who knows. I sure as hell wouldnt say Lizard 10/10. But i guess we'll never know now would we.😄
Originally posted by willRules
So by your logic because DD has dodged similar things to spidey, DD has better senses???? Sorry but that's rubbish. There are countless factors that could come into play for DD being able to dodge similar things, and the fact that spidey dodges the same thing and DD himself admits spidey is by far physically superior to him, that suggests the reversal of what you have said.
No. By my logic, because DD knows every detail of the threat PLUS gets warning of it before Spidey, that would put his senses above the Spidey sense. You can call it rubbish if you want, but it seems that when they are gother, DD's senses give him more info on the threat and sometimes BEFORE the Spidey sense warns Web-head. DD admits Spidey is physically superior to him. So whats your point? When they are in battle against each other, all of Spideys superiority goes down the tubes thanks to DD's superior senses. Spidey is naturally stronger yes, but cant apply the proper strength to ko DD. Spidey is naturally faster yes, but cant apply the suffeciant speed(which Spidey himself has stated) to land effeciant hits on DD.
Originally posted by willRules
So DD used his superior reflexes to have the time work out how to avoid all this right???? Oh no wait DD is physically inferior in every way. It almost suggests that in previous encounters the writers have hyped a popular character up to give him a chance against Spidey, but that would never happen right???? 🙄
🤨You dont work out how to roll with a punch. You just roll with it. Its part of his skill set which includes multiple styles of fighting such as boxing mainly. You learn how to do it, them whewn in fights its purely instinctive.😉
Originally posted by willRules
DD's radar sense tells him who or what is in his immediate surroundings. It doesn't tell him if its a threat or not. DD must deduce that it is a threat, then decide how to react, then to execute that reaction.The spider-sense tells spidey what to do to react, then spidey must execute that reaction. Spidey skips the whole step of deciding how to react, that's the purpose of the spider-sense. You may say it will only take a split second for DD to go through his senses to react, but the same can be said for spidey who can also utilise superhuman physical attribute, to give him a clear edge in this fight.
DD's sense DOES tell him if a person is going to pose a threat. All by heartbeat and breathing alone. Once he sees that the person can be a threat, he watches/listens out for them to make a move. Before the move is even made, DD reacts. He doesnt have to wait to for the move to be in execution then decide how to react.
Spidey sense tells him somethings wrong. He then has to know/find out what it is thats wrong. Then the spidey sense helps him in his reaction to it such as letting him know when axactly when to dodge.
Originally posted by willRules
He may do it subconsciously or he may have trained himself to react that way, but it's still DD's thought process and it's still a longer one than Spidey's spider-sense which is instinctive and coupled with his reflexes, much faster.
DD's reactions are instinctive. If theres gun fire, move. He doesnt ahve to think to himself, "Should i move to the left or right?". He jsut does it.
Originally posted by willRules
"DD senses put his reflexes with spider-man's"???????? Why cos you say so??? 😕 If spider-man operated at peak human reflexes I'd be inclined to agree with you, but he is much quicker than that.And don't tell me you think DD can hang with the likes of Thing, Hulk or Namor??? 😆 Putting him in the same league as Spidey is far fetched IMO but with Namor? NAMOR FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!! 😆
DD's senses put his reflexes with Spdermans not because i say so, but because that how it is when they are together. Thats the best way to judge. You dont see Spiderman telling DD to move cause sometings coming. On the other hand they were a couple instances wehre DD has warned Spidey of something incoming.😄
Actually DD HAS Hung with Thing and Namor. He didnt do as good with Hulk. When i say "hang" i dont mean blow for blow and you should know that. When i say "hang" i mean for the fact that they struggle to knock him out or to land good enough hits to put him down. Why? Because of his speed and reflexes. I simply stated that people such as Thing, Hulk and Namor has had hard times knocking DD out, due to DD rolling with the punches. Please dont put words in my mouth. Can you find my quote where i put DD in the same league as Namor?😕 Good luck with that one.
Originally posted by willRules
I have that issue but i haven't read it in years. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't he barely managed to hold his own against a sloppy Spidey, being affected by numerous illusions and not thinking his is fighting DD???? Then DD goes on to admit how much faster ad better spidey is like in the scan shown. DD then manages to free spidey of the trance through their trust and the shattering of the device????Such an impressive victory 🙄
You stand corrected. DAredevil didnt barely manage to hold his own at all. In fact Daredevil never even attempted an attack on Spidey. After the initial hit, Daredevil proceeded to dodge Spideys punches. He held his own quite well actually. Especially considering Spidey though DD was a major threat. Why didnt he listen to his senses?🙄 DD mentioned that in normal sircumstances hed never be able to outfight him but he could outthink him. Spidey also was going to try and use the Spidey sense to find the villain, but DD already knew where he was at via senses.😄
And once again, can you find my quote where i said that was a victory for Daredevil?😕
Originally posted by jrodslam
DD has also beat opponents who are faster and stronger than him while he was injured. And once again your proving my point by stating how strength doesnt matter in fights if hits cant be landed effectively to knock out the opponent.And Lizard vd DD?? Who knows. I sure as hell wouldnt say Lizard 10/10. But i guess we'll never know now would we.😄
He SHOULD only be able to hit the opponent if his speed and reflexes are as good as the opponent. Oh no wait spidey wins in the physical department in every way. 🙂
Originally posted by jrodslam
No. By my logic, because DD knows every detail of the threat PLUS gets warning of it before Spidey, that would put his senses above the Spidey sense. You can call it rubbish if you want, but it seems that when they are gother, DD's senses give him more info on the threat and sometimes BEFORE the Spidey sense warns Web-head. DD admits Spidey is physically superior to him. So whats your point? When they are in battle against each other, all of Spideys superiority goes down the tubes thanks to DD's superior senses. Spidey is naturally stronger yes, but cant apply the proper strength to ko DD. Spidey is naturally faster yes, but cant apply the suffeciant speed(which Spidey himself has stated) to land effeciant hits on DD.
Why can't spidey land a hit? because DD's senses are better? But that's only as good for as quickly as he can use them or put them into effect, but DD doesn't have the best reflexes, speed or agility in this fight.
Originally posted by jrodslam
🤨You dont work out how to roll with a punch. You just roll with it. Its part of his skill set which includes multiple styles of fighting such as boxing mainly. You learn how to do it, them whewn in fights its purely instinctive.😉
Ok lets say DD has trained his sense to be virtually instinctive (Which still wouldn't hold a bead on the spider-sense which IS instinctive) operating at his best, he is still outclassed by Spidey. And its still very debatable who has the best senses, IMO opinion its the spider-sense. In your opinion DD's senses. It seems its all he has got going for him and even that's debatable 🙁
Originally posted by jrodslam
😄D's sense DOES tell him if a person is going to pose a threat. All by heartbeat and breathing alone. Once he sees that the person can be a threat, he watches/listens out for them to make a move. Before the move is even made, DD reacts. He doesnt have to wait to for the move to be in execution then decide how to react.
So a sniper is firing a bullet at DD. DD has to rely on his senses to pick up the sniper is there, work out how to avoid the gunfire, then actually avoid it, all before the sniper fires, with his human reflexes? I'm not saying he can't do it because he has dodged worse numerous times, but it does seem a bit like a "By the skin of his teeth" moment.
Originally posted by jrodslam
😖pidey sense tells him somethings wrong. He then has to know/find out what it is thats wrong. Then the spidey sense helps him in his reaction to it such as letting him know when axactly when to dodge.
All the spider-sense does is tell spidey what to do to avoid the danger. Spidey already knows there is a danger if it goes off otherwise it wouldn't go off in the first place, its just a case of him locating the danger.
Originally posted by jrodslam
DD's reactions are instinctive. If theres gun fire, move. He doesnt ahve to think to himself, "Should i move to the left or right?". He jsut does it.
DD may have trained himself enough and utilised his senses so it appears instinctive but its not. He doesn't have superhuman reflexes, speed or agility or a warning sense.
Originally posted by jrodslam
DD's senses put his reflexes with Spdermans not because i say so, but because that how it is when they are together. Thats the best way to judge. You dont see Spiderman telling DD to move cause sometings coming. On the other hand they were a couple instances wehre DD has warned Spidey of something incoming.😄
Oh I agree that in some cases DD my be able to utilise his senses to deduce what his about to happen in the upcoming moments. But that doesn't mean the spider-sense doesn't register it either. It also doesn't make DD's senses better for a one on one fight. It may, it may not. In my opinion it doesn't 🙂
Originally posted by jrodslam
Actually DD HAS Hung with Thing and Namor. He didnt do as good with Hulk. When i say "hang" i dont mean blow for blow and you should know that. When i say "hang" i mean for the fact that they struggle to knock him out or to land good enough hits to put him down. Why? Because of his speed and reflexes. I simply stated that people such as Thing, Hulk and Namor has had hard times knocking DD out, due to DD rolling with the punches. Please dont put words in my mouth. Can you find my quote where i put DD in the same league as Namor?😕 Good luck with that one.
By your definition of hung with then isn't what I deem to be a proper fight. In the past spidey has "Hung" by your definition with Galactus (like in secret wars or one panel in the sins past storyline), but I know that the planet eater would win in a fight.
I don't really know if I have any more points to contribute. You are entitled to your opinion and to argue with my points and I respect that 🙂 But I feel as though it keeps coming back to the same points.
The only way I see DD winning this fight is through his senses, he has no other advantage. His fighting skills, acrobatics and strength mean diddly squat against an opponent who outclasses him physically in every way. It seems DD's senses make him a one trick pony in this fight and I'm not even sure if that is as effective in this fight against Spidey's spider-sense. 🙂
IMO spidey wins at least 8/10
Originally posted by willRules
He SHOULD only be able to hit the opponent if his speed and reflexes are as good as the opponent. Oh no wait spidey wins in the physical department in every way. 🙂
It makes it kinda easy to hit an opponent whos faster than you if you know exactly where theyre going to dodge doesnt it.😄
Originally posted by willRules
Why can't spidey land a hit? because DD's senses are better? But that's only as good for as quickly as he can use them or put them into effect, but DD doesn't have the best reflexes, speed or agility in this fight.
DD's senses go into effect before Spidey even gest off the move. Thats why Spidey wouldnt be able to land a hit. At least not one hard enough to do damage.
Originally posted by willRules
Ok lets say DD has trained his sense to be virtually instinctive (Which still wouldn't hold a bead on the spider-sense which IS instinctive) operating at his best, he is still outclassed by Spidey. And its still very debatable who has the best senses, IMO opinion its the spider-sense. In your opinion DD's senses. It seems its all he has got going for him and even that's debatable 🙁
I dont think DD has to train his senses to be instinctive. They just are. Just like when he first got them, he was able to act due to the senses letting him know of the danger before hand. His senses have operated at average levels and has made Spidey wonder if DD possesed extra sense that made it so hard for him to hit DD. DD has more than the senses going for him. Things like his actual fighting ability, speed and agility. With all the things Spidey has going for him aganst DD, it appears as if thats not even enough.😉
