They become a blur not disappear. A plane going faster than sound is easily visible. The speed required for a human body to vanish without a blur would be very close to speed of light.
That's whole point at human level speed your hands are a blur. It wouldn't take more than 10 times human speed for you to be unable to see them.
The plane going at the speed of sound is completely different. It is travelling in a steady speed in straight line. You would still be able to see an object at a steady speed if it was near light speed.
Its acceleration that makes it impossible to see.
can you show us proof of this?
It's from allstar Superman. Although the same key apparently exist in the main continuity as Supergirl mentions it in conversation with captain boomerang 2.
http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=allstar1fc7.jpg
Well everything in the thread is a IMHO. I fell the same way about a SSJ4 punch to superman, but having one person exploded the other one with just a punch is unreasonable becuase it would be one fanboy saying "he'd kill him in one hit" vs the other fanboy "saying no he'd kill him in one hit".
Thing is your idea of how strong Goku is based on how strong you want him to be. You dismiss any evidence to contrary as errors in the show. While we have impressive feats to backup our Superman claims.
As for the gravity of that planet, it was never stated, but it really doesn't matter, since tons is a measure of force, not weight, as it already takes into account the gravity. So 40 tons means the same thing in any gravity field, just that a 40 ton weight in one gravity field would have a different amount of mass than a 40 ton weight in another.
No DBZ character has ever shown any physical strength anywhere near that of Superman. If they tried to punch him, they would break their hands.
You are all using false reasoning to determine superman’s victory. If superman and goku were to fight they would have to be in the same realm and if you look at both character conquest in the own realms you will see that Goku simply outdoes Supes. His fighting technique is impeccable, he consistently showcases that his powers are unmatched by any who challenge him, and to top it off, his potential is still vast and untapped. For every villain they throw at him, no matter how many orders of magnitude they outclass him, he always finds a way to push himself to the level he needs to be at in order to vanquish them. On several occasions, he transcends to another form entirely. This is the key reason why Superman would not be able to beat Goku. As Supes does battle with forces that rival his own power, his energy reserves deplete over time. Goku, on the other hand, adapts and strengthens--both in terms of pure physical power, and in terms of battle tactics--even as he takes damage. So no matter the feats of Superman Goku will over come them and win.
Since each person views each event and each character differently this will never come to an end Superman will never win, and neither will goku. This will continue on forever and ever as it has on this forum and thousands of others. I on the other hand will not continue on forever and ever. I will respond to a few more post but then I’m finished with this it is getting me backed up at work.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
For all your long - winded rambling, I'm not seeing any actual arguments whatsoever.Goku is the one who gets tired out after only a few minutes of fighting, and in SSJ3 he can only keep it up for about 1 minute before tiring, while Superman can fight for weeks on end without any trouble.
My argument was that this battle would be a battle of there perspective character in there realms. And that Goku's character is to over come any and every adversity no matter what it is.
Him getting winded as you say it is just a part of his progression of strength. He was winded fighting Freza as well but he kept getting stronger regardless of how winded he was. He keeps getting strong until he beat his appoint and that is what he does with every fight that is goku’s character.
Originally posted by dirkdirden
My argument was that this battle would be a battle of there perspective character in there realms. And that Goku character is to over come any and every adversity no matter what it is.Okay...so what. This can apply to Supes also. And Supes is stronger than Goku in his or Goku's realm.
[QUOTE]Him getting winded as you say it is just a part of his progression of strength. He was winded fighting Freza as well but he kept getting stronger regardless of how winded he was.
He kept getting stronger because he didn't max out against Freeza during his fight. Like Gohan, he was an ssj, but Goku knew he wasn't at full power yet, until he reached ssj2.
He keeps getting strong until he beat his appoint and that is what he does with every fight that is goku’s character.
If this was true, Goku wouldn't died when him and Piccolo was fighting Raditz, he wouldn't have need help to defeat Vegeta, He wouldn't have lost against Cell, and he wouldn't have been so helpless against Buu.
Originally posted by dvampire
Okay...so what. This can apply to Supes also. And Supes is stronger than Goku in his or Goku's realm.
Superman in supermans realm is not the strongest.
Goku in Goku's realm is the strongest
Originally posted by dvampire
He kept getting stronger because he didn't max out against Freeza during his fight. Like Gohan, he was an ssj, but Goku knew he wasn't at full power yet, until he reached ssj2.
Originally posted by dvampire
If this was true, Goku wouldn't died when him and Piccolo was fighting Raditz, he wouldn't have need help to defeat Vegeta, He wouldn't have lost against Cell, and he wouldn't have been so helpless against Buu.
This just proves that goku will do what needs to be done to win the battle, he didn't lose aginst Cell he let his son fight him, if I remember correctly he killed buu with a spirit bomb.
Originally posted by dirkdirden
My argument was that this battle would be a battle of there perspective character in there realms. And that Goku's character is to over come any and every adversity no matter what it is.Him getting winded as you say it is just a part of his progression of strength. He was winded fighting Freza as well but he kept getting stronger regardless of how winded he was. He keeps getting strong until he beat his appoint and that is what he does with every fight that is goku’s character.
Using that logic, Kenshin is the best swordsman in his world and always wins, so therefore he could beat Chinmei from Samurai Deeper Kyo (manga version), because Chinmei is not the strongest in his world and has lost many times.
However this ignores the fact that in terms of actual feats, speed, techniques, and power, Chinmei is far, far above anything Kenshin could even dream of.
Originally posted by dirkdirden
Superman in supermans realm is not the strongest.
Goku in Goku's realm is the strongest[/.quote]Because beings in the DCU are much much stronger than beings in the DBU.
Like I said, Kenshin is the strongest in his verse, does that mean he can beat anyone who isn't the strongest in theirs?
There is no max out they always get stronger and stronger.Yes there is. SSJ3 is the maximum, as that's the strongest he ever got (not including non - canon stuff like GT). You can't simply extrapolate infinitely with no evidence.
[quote]This just proves that goku will do what needs to be done to win the battle, he didn't lose aginst Cell he let his son fight him, if I remember correctly he killed buu with a spirit bomb.
Yeah, after Vegeta and Mr. Satan saved his ass by distracting him for long enough.
Superman's observed feats and powers are far in excess of anything Goku has ever demonstrated. Goku loses. Deal with it.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yes there is. SSJ3 is the maximum, as that's the strongest he ever got (not including non - canon stuff like GT). You can't simply extrapolate infinitely with no evidence.Yeah, after Vegeta and Mr. Satan saved his ass by distracting him for long enough.
Superman's observed feats and powers are far in excess of anything Goku has ever demonstrated. Goku loses. Deal with it.
There is nothing that stats that Goku's limit is SSJ3 that is just as far as he goes fighting Buu getting any strong wouldn't of help either because buu can take endless amount of physical damage you have to destroy every little bit of him. This is why he had to use the spirt bomb.
I am using DBGT it is in the title of the thread, and in GT goku never reaches a limit he just keep endless progressing even becoming immortal with the dragon balls.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Using that logic, Kenshin is the best swordsman in his world and always wins, so therefore he could beat Chinmei from Samurai Deeper Kyo (manga version), because Chinmei is not the strongest in his world and has lost many times.However this ignores the fact that in terms of actual feats, speed, techniques, and power, Chinmei is far, far above anything Kenshin could even dream of.
You missed it.
Kenshin was strong from the start and he really didn't get much stronger. He was just always the best.
Goku on the other hand always fought battles with people far stronger than him forceing him to get stronger and showing that he can get stronger and faster by fighting people who are stronger and faster.
It doesn't Ignore the facts in terms of actuall feats, It uses them to make goku stronger like it always has in the DBZ realm, and it doesn't in the kenshin realm.
I am using DBGT it is in the title of the thread, and in GT goku never reaches a limit he just keep endless progressing even becoming immortal with the dragon balls
You do realise the same is true for Superman right? He eventually becomes Superman Prime able to grant powers to ancestors that vastly surpass the current Superman.
Also Goku doesn't keep the dargonballs. Or how else does Goku Jr find one in the GT movie?
You are all using false reasoning to determine superman’s victory. If superman and goku were to fight they would have to be in the same realm and if you look at both character conquest in the own realms you will see that Goku simply outdoes Supes. His fighting technique is impeccable, he consistently showcases that his powers are unmatched by any who challenge him, and to top it off, his potential is still vast and untapped. For every villain they throw at him, no matter how many orders of magnitude they outclass him, he always finds a way to push himself to the level he needs to be at in order to vanquish them. On several occasions, he transcends to another form entirely. This is the key reason why Superman would not be able to beat Goku. As Supes does battle with forces that rival his own power, his energy reserves deplete over time. Goku, on the other hand, adapts and strengthens--both in terms of pure physical power, and in terms of battle tactics--even as he takes damage. So no matter the feats of Superman Goku will over come them and win.
Yes, Superman's never defeated people who are vastly stronger than him...
Dominus, Imperiex, Maggedon and so on.
The thing Goku has never overcome anyone that much more powerful than him, they were all only slightly above him. Vegeta or Frieza were still in the same range of power as Goku.
Goku taking on Superman is the same as Goku from the end of dragonball fighting perfect cell. Can you honestly tell me Goku would win that fight?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You really need to either see the whole show or read the manga dude.
Only watched the TV show. Also you have to compare Kenshins gains to the likes of Goku's gains. Kenshins doesn't gain anything in comparison he gets a little stronger by training with his master to fight bandaid boy but that’s about the only time he increases his strength, so if he was faced with someone from a different realm with much strong powers he couldn't gain enough power to over come them like Goku could.
Goku is the strongest because he makes himself that way, if anyone he meats is stronger than him his fighting spirit makes him become stronger.
Superman is strong but the main way he get stronger is from the suns charge and that can only charge as much as the sun can charge.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
You do realise the same is true for Superman right? He eventually becomes Superman Prime able to grant powers to ancestors that vastly surpass the current Superman.
If superman Becomes Superman Prime goku will over come that as well.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Also Goku doesn't keep the dargonballs. Or how else does Goku Jr find one in the GT movie?
He absorbs them at the end of DBGT and it gives him immortality.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Yes, Superman's never defeated people who are vastly stronger than him...
Dominus, Imperiex, Maggedon and so on.
and did superman nearly double in strength after each fight like goku would. Goku started the fight agents frieza with a powerlevel in the lower 100,000’s and ends it above a million. When goku is fighting really strong people all it does it force goku to become even stronger.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
The thing Goku has never overcome anyone that much more powerful than him, they were all only slightly above him. Vegeta or Frieza were still in the same range of power as Goku.
Vegeta he was in the same range, but you are wrong on the frieza part. Frieza was WAY WAY stronger than goku at the start of the battle, but goku more than doubled his strength and power to win, also transformed into SSJ.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Goku taking on Superman is the same as Goku from the end of dragonball fighting perfect cell. Can you honestly tell me Goku would win that fight?
Yes he would it's in his character he would find a way to do it.
Superman is strong but the main way he get stronger is from the suns charge and that can only charge as much as the sun can charge.
True, but Superman hyper metabolizes the solar energy. The light acts as a catalyst for further processes within him. He can store vast energy. For instance he absorbed the anti sun at the core of Maggedon which had the power to wipe out half a galaxy. He didn't seem phased by it.
Superman after flying into the sun was able to move warworld through space while it was resisting him using the stolen power of Imperiex a universal threat.
Unless you can show Goku's power suddenly increasing millions of times durring combat agaist a vastly more powerful foe your argument doesn't work.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
True, but Superman hyper metabolizes the solar energy. The light acts as a catalyst for further processes within him. He can store vast energy. For instance he absorbed the anti sun at the core of Maggedon which had the power to wipe out half a galaxy. He didn't seem phased by it.Superman after flying into the sun was able to move warworld through space while it was resisting him using the stolen power of Imperiex a universal threat.
Unless you can show Goku's power suddenly increasing millions of times durring combat agaist a vastly more powerful foe your argument doesn't work.
Goku Turning supersayain 1 2 3 and 4 all were huge gains during battle. Also if superman is sun diving what do you think goku is going to do take a nap. Goku will feel superman’s power rising and do something to counter it; like training in the time chamber or developing a new technique or what ever else.
Originally posted by dirkdirden
Goku Turning supersayain 1 2 3 and 4 all were huge gains during battle. Also if superman is sun diving what do you think goku is going to do take a nap. Goku will feel superman’s power rising and do something to counter it; like training in the time chamber or developing a new technique or what ever else.
Goku's highest transformation isn't even close to Supes in power, so it doesn't matter. Goku can't sense Supes, since Supes doesn't operate on ki, his powerlevel will be that of a normal person. Goku can train all he wants, Supes gain power way faster (which only requires him to sit in the sun doing nothing) than Goku would by training (stressing himself, taking breaks to relax his muscles, and recovering from injury).
Originally posted by dvampire
Goku's highest transformation isn't even close to Supes in power, so it doesn't matter. Goku can't sense Supes, since Supes doesn't operate on ki, his powerlevel will be that of a normal person. Goku can train all he wants, Supes gain power way faster (which only requires him to sit in the sun doing nothing) than Goku would by training (stressing himself, taking breaks to relax his muscles, and recovering from injury).
Superman will have Ki becuase everyone does superman just doesn't use it. Supes gains are fast but gokus are limitless, he may have to work much harder than superman but working hard is part of what makes goku goku.