Dirkdirden you've manage to out fanboy both Carver9 and Xmeat. You've basically said Goku no matter who he fights will he beat them, no matter how much stronger they are than him Goku will just gain a random powerup.
Lets test this. What about Galactus, Imperiex or the Spectre? Would Goku gain enough power to defeat them?
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Dirkdirden you've manage to out fanboy both Carver9 and Xmeat. You've basically said Goku no matter who he fights will he beat them, no matter how much stronger they are than him Goku will just gain a random powerup.Lets test this. What about Galactus, Imperiex or the Spectre? Would Goku gain enough power to defeat them?
Galactus character is the most powerful creature in the universe and he has limitless power, and abilities. So because he his character was created to be the most powerful no goku couldn't beat him let alone even fight him. About the same goes for Imperiex. I'm not a huge comic book fan I just like the superman and x-man comics so I don't know much about Spectre besides what Wikipedia tells me but I'd guess he’s a supreme power like the other two so it would be no.
The problem with you superman fans is that your leaving the fight open, no rules no boundaries just a Superman vs Goku allowing all possibilities which makes the reliance of the fight on what they would do in the fight based upon there characters. Put Goku in a boxing ring were neither character can leave from and it would be a different story, because Goku couldn’t IT out to regain power and come back stronger and stronger until strong enough to beat him.
Originally posted by dirkdirdenIf Goku I.T's from this fight then Superman wins, this is a vs thread after all. And I don't mean to offend you but clearly you know sweet f all about Superman and what he is capable of. Do you realise what your saying is so wrong its not even funny, some how Goku will just become stronger than his opponent and defeat him. You bring no logical arguments or feats of any kind to back your claims other than he is stronger than everyone because he is the hero of his show. Funny thing is everything you have said about Goku, the exact same can be said about Superman.
Galactus character is the most powerful creature in the universe and he has limitless power, and abilities. So because he his character was created to be the most powerful no goku couldn't beat him let alone even fight him. About the same goes for Imperiex. I'm not a huge comic book fan I just like the superman and x-man comics so I don't know much about Spectre besides what Wikipedia tells me but I'd guess he’s a supreme power like the other two so it would be no.The problem with you superman fans is that your leaving the fight open, no rules no boundaries just a Superman vs Goku allowing all possibilities which makes the reliance of the fight on what they would do in the fight based upon there characters. Put Goku in a boxing ring were neither character can leave from and it would be a different story, because Goku couldn’t IT out to regain power and come back stronger and stronger until strong enough to beat him.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Your opinion in matters of comic books is now completly without merit.
It has always been without merit, I only read superman and X-men. And since superman and goku two people I know about and like are in the title I droped in. The only reason I know about Imperiex is becuase he was in the superman comics. I am no expert in comix nor did I pretend to be. I know quite a bit about Superman and goku and thats what the topic is about.
Originally posted by Magee
If Goku I.T's from this fight then Superman wins, this is a vs thread after all. And I don't mean to offend you but clearly you know sweet f all about Superman and what he is capable of. Do you realise what your saying is so wrong its not even funny, some how Goku will just become stronger than his opponent and defeat him. You bring no logical arguments or feats of any kind to back your claims other than he is stronger than everyone because he is the hero of his show. Funny thing is everything you have said about Goku, the exact same can be said about Superman.
I bring logic you just aren't following it, and feats don't win fights. The logical progression you were suppose to catch on to was that every fight Goku goes into he starts weaker than his opponent and ends stronger than his opponent. So he starts a fight weaker than superman and ends it stronger.
It's not the exact same with superman because his power is limited to what the sun can give him but Goku's isn't limited at all, so if they were to fight goku would be able to fight until close to being out of energy then IT any ware and rest up, and because of his sayain blood he will get stronger each time.
and Yes if you add that ITing to regain strength is out of the rules superman would probably win but in a no rules fight as if they were really fighting goku would win.
You are using the plot of dbz as reason for why Goku beats Superman, the fact Goku has over come a few enemies stronger than him has no bearing on this fight what so ever, it means nothing. Try to understand that. Superman has done the exact thing time and time again, been underestimated by his opponent and knocked them the fuk out. Superman constantly pulls his punches and holds back because he does not wish to accidently make some ones head explode. If under stress/ pissed off Superman can get the win on a lot of powerful characters some times to the point where CIS is cried by haters, take darkseid for example. He can win against many powerful characters by going all out or even going for a sun dip.
Superman has everything he needs to prove he wins 10/10 where as all you have is Goku is the anime version of hulk.
Originally posted by Magee
You are using the plot of dbz as reason for why Goku beats Superman, the fact Goku has over come a few enemies stronger than him has no bearing on this fight what so ever, it means nothing. Try to understand that. Superman has done the exact thing time and time again, been underestimated by his opponent and knocked them the fuk out. Superman constantly pulls his punches and holds back because he does not wish to accidently make some ones head explode. If under stress/ pissed off Superman can get the win on a lot of powerful characters some times to the point where CIS is cried by haters, take darkseid for example. He can win against many powerful characters by going all out or even going for a sun dip.Superman has everything he needs to prove he wins 10/10 where as all you have is Goku is the anime version of hulk.
When goku fights its not really a matter of Underestimating him its a matter of him getting stronger. As I have said a few times now superman's strength is limited to how much power the sun can give him, and goku's strength is limited only by the amount of time it takes for him to increase it.
If goku is unable to us his ability to increases his power by getting his ass kicked then he probably would loose 10/10. But in a real fight goku could use his sayain blood and would use IT if he was getting his ass kicked, also the use of senzu bean would have the same effect to regain his health and increase his power level. Goku is like an anime hulk but he never looses the power he gains.
In a real life do what ever you want fight Goku would win because he keeps getting stronger the more he fights and gets his ass kicked. He can IT any ware and superman can't find him. He can sinse were superman's location is and the power he has.
Yes, but it's to bad he can't get stronger mid battle against Supes who's leagues above him, it'll take way too long for Goku to even catch up with him. This isn't DBZ/GT where Goku is being saved everytime he's about to die; and they go off some where to train to get stronger. This is a bloodlusted match, their fighting to death, no second chances. And Goku is pretty muched maxed out in DBZ (or GT), he can't get any stronger.
Supes wins, his feats are just far greater and none of the DBZ/GT support have proven that he isn't.
Originally posted by dirkdirden
There is nothing that stats that Goku's limit is SSJ3 that is just as far as he goes fighting Buu getting any strong wouldn't of help either because buu can take endless amount of physical damage you have to destroy every little bit of him. This is why he had to use the spirt bomb.
Burden of proof is on you to prove that he can go beyond SSJ3 (if you accept GT as non - canon).
Furthermore, he could have disintegrated Buu with a normal ki blast if he was strong enough, like Gohan did to Cell. However, he wasn't, so he needed to borrow energy from everyone else in the form of the genki dama.
I am using DBGT it is in the title of the thread, and in GT goku never reaches a limit he just keep endless progressing even becoming immortal with the dragon balls.
GT makes no sense and the feats there are actually less than that of DBZ. As for being "immortal" the only thing we know is that according to that movie, apparently he doesn't age anymore, or ages very slowly. Nothing about being immune to damage.
Originally posted by dirkdirden
You missed it.Kenshin was strong from the start and he really didn't get much stronger. He was just always the best.
Goku on the other hand always fought battles with people far stronger than him forceing him to get stronger and showing that he can get stronger and faster by fighting people who are stronger and faster.
It doesn't Ignore the facts in terms of actuall feats, It uses them to make goku stronger like it always has in the DBZ realm, and it doesn't in the kenshin realm.
Yet for all that strength he's accumulated, he's still not nearly as strong as Superman.
Another example: Naruto. Naruto started out very weak, and has gotten progressively stronger as his series went on. He's still getting stronger as of the latest manga chapters, and beating stronger and stronger enemies. Doesn't mean he can beat people who are completely out of his league, even if they are not the strongest in their universe.
Also it should be noted that Post - Crisis Superman is also constantly getting stronger. In the Byrne - era, he was not that strong, and could lift a mountain at maximum, a few years later he could move the moon, then after he died and came back he got strong enough to go faster than lightspeed, fly through the sun, and then got even stronger by OWAW, and much much stronger after that. He's still getting stronger while Goku's manga is over and done with.
Superman is strong but the main way he get stronger is from the suns charge and that can only charge as much as the sun can charge. [/B]
Untrue. He's performed feats (such as the OWAW War World push) that require many orders of magnitude more energy than the sun contains. The best theory is that the solar energy merely unlocks his power and allows him to utilize it.
Originally posted by dirkdirden
[B]If superman Becomes Superman Prime goku will over come that as well.
How? Prove it.
He absorbs them at the end of DBGT and it gives him immortality.
You dodged the question. If he absorbed them all, then how could Goku Jr. have found one in the movie?
and did superman nearly double in strength after each fight like goku would. Goku started the fight agents frieza with a powerlevel in the lower 100,000’s and ends it above a million. When goku is fighting really strong people all it does it force goku to become even stronger.
Power levels are meaningless numbers that only serve to say which DBZ character is stronger than which other DBZ character. They don't have any meaning in an actual cross - universe analysis.
Goku would have to continue getting stronger at his current rate for centuries if he wants to match Superman.
Vegeta he was in the same range, but you are wrong on the frieza part. Frieza was WAY WAY stronger than goku at the start of the battle, but goku more than doubled his strength and power to win, also transformed into SSJ.
And if Freiza wasn't such an overconfident idiot, Goku would have been killed at the beginning of the fight.
Yes he would it's in his character he would find a way to do it.
Prove it, instead of just making unsupported claims.
Originally posted by dirkdirden
Goku Turning supersayain 1 2 3 and 4 all were huge gains during battle. Also if superman is sun diving what do you think goku is going to do take a nap. Goku will feel superman’s power rising and do something to counter it; like training in the time chamber or developing a new technique or what ever else.
Yes, he's going to train in the time chamber, the entrance to which has been destroyed by Picollo and no one can enter there again. (Don't say IT because he needs a ki signal to lock onto, and there are none there).
You make it sound like Superman would spend weeks in the sun, instead of a few minutes like he would realistically.
Originally posted by dirkdirden
Superman will have Ki becuase everyone does superman just doesn't use it. Supes gains are fast but gokus are limitless, he may have to work much harder than superman but working hard is part of what makes goku goku.
No, it's not limitless. It has never shown to be. You're just making stuff up, and using a no - limits fallacy as well. Furthermore, he won't sense any more ki from Superman than he would from a normal human, because Superman's powers don't run off of ki.
In addition, Superman has fought and prevailed against much greater odds than Goku has ever even had to face.
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The problem with you superman fans is that your leaving the fight open, no rules no boundaries just a Superman vs Goku allowing all possibilities which makes the reliance of the fight on what they would do in the fight based upon there characters. Put Goku in a boxing ring were neither character can leave from and it would be a different story, because Goku couldn’t IT out to regain power and come back stronger and stronger until strong enough to beat him. [/B]
So in other words, you're just making up crap with no evidence.
Let's play your game:
Superman flies to the Watchtower, grabs a time machine, goes back in time to when Frieza first destroyed planet Namek, grabs Goku's space pod, and throws it into the nearest star. 😎
Originally posted by dirkdirden
I bring logic you just aren't following it, and feats don't win fights. The logical progression you were suppose to catch on to was that every fight Goku goes into he starts weaker than his opponent and ends stronger than his opponent. So he starts a fight weaker than superman and ends it stronger.
That is completely bankrupy logic and you know it.
He fights people in his universe who are at least near to him in power, and through act of plot he wins. You can't apply act to plot to a crossover debate, you have to evaluate it based on their feats, powers, and abilities.
Otherwise I could say that in every fight, Superman finds a way to win, so therefore he'll win here too. Then we'll both be basically saying the same thing and getting nowhere.
It's not the exact same with superman because his power is limited to what the sun can give him
I already disproved this, and so did someone else.
but Goku's isn't limited at all
Yes it is. It's limited by what we have seen in canon. You can't claim he will somehow draw out way more power than we have ever seen him have, that's just making up crap with no evidence.
so if they were to fight goku would be able to fight until close to being out of energy
Unless Clark KO's him immediately.
then IT any ware and rest up, and because of his sayain blood he will get stronger each time.
By doing so, he would run away and thus forfeit the match.
However if you want to play that way, Superman would just fly into the sun, and the powerup he gets from being in the sun is far greater than the powerup Goku gets from recovering from an injury. In fact Goku can't even breathe in space so he wouldn't even be able to get near him if he was in the sun.
and Yes if you add that ITing to regain strength is out of the rules superman would probably win but in a no rules fight as if they were really fighting goku would win.
No rules fight?
Superman uses T-Vo.
GG.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I find it interesting that apparently the majority of anime fans posting here (including me) have taken the position that Goku will lose.
I'm a major anime/manga fan, and I can think of plenty of anime/manga characters that would beat Superman, but Goku isn't one of them.