Dooku's Skill

Started by overlord28 pages

Originally posted by Decay
why did this turn into a versus thread? i was just curious as to how much of an advantage form 2 was for dooku, if hed chosen something like form 5 or even 3 would he have still attained the same level of skill, and would he still be at least a pretty close match for windu? if obi wan had chosen for 2 would he be as skilled at dooku was? so how much of dookus ability was his own skill, and how much of it was his use of form 2?

Form 2 is a true offensive and effective way of dueling, it is certainly far superior against a few forms. It's less tiring than Ataru for example and still a very effective form.
At least Dooku mastered it fully eventually but he should've been better like Sidious and his mastery of different forms.
Maybe he just didn't have as much midi-chloreans as Mace/Anakin/Yoda. 😛
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Im sorry but if Kenobi was better than Dooku, howcome the Count wtf pwned him TWICE. Obi-Wan is a good duellist, no doubt about it, but he is not on the same level of skill as Dooku or Anakin. In the ROTS battle Kenobi and Anakin were basically equal. They each met each other blow for blow. However Anakin had the darkside with him, was full of hate, and had raw strength and power that Kenobi did not. Kenobi was the smarter duellist, but not the better one.

Kenobi never was an incredible duelist in my opinion. He is incredibly good at defending. He still WTFpwned Maul in my own opinion but never became like Mace or Yoda. I don't think he could've surprised Anakin and bested him, he is just an incredible defender. (except against Makashi of course)

When Dooku defeated Obi-Wan in ROTS he did not defeat him with a lightsaber. He defeated through use of the force. Yes Dooku's force skill is higher then Obi-Wan's but Obi-Wan's skill with a lightsaber was better. It is very possible that old age started to creep up on Dooku and that is why Obi-Wan's skill was higher. He also could not use the dark side on the same level as Palpatine concidering Palpatine's level of dark side mastery was stronger. So it would be easier for Palpatine to fuel himself with the dark side then it would be for Dooku. I am not saying Dooku is weak. But let's face it. In ROTS he could not beat Obi-Wan with a lightsaber and had to beat him through the use of the force. If Dooku has been smart he would have done the same with Anakin. Obi-Wan was able to hold his own against Anakin. So that puts him on the same level as Anakin. Meanwhile Dooku could not hold his own. Heck he even lost his own hands. Even if Dooku had been holding back. I do not think he would let someone cut off his hands.

Just because Dooku bet Kenobi with the force doesnt mean he was losing to him with a lightsaber. Kenobi wasnt an important part of the battle in ROTS, Dooku wanted to spend him full attention on taunting Skywalker. So he eliminated Obi-Wan quickly with the force. He could also have done it with a lightsaber (we have seen him do it before) but the force was far quicker. Kenobis Soresu style keeps a fight going far longer than necessary. And just because Kenobi is on par with Anakin doesnt mean he could beat Dooku. Different styles, abilities etc.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Just because Dooku bet Kenobi with the force doesnt mean he was losing to him with a lightsaber. Kenobi wasnt an important part of the battle in ROTS, Dooku wanted to spend him full attention on taunting Skywalker. So he eliminated Obi-Wan quickly with the force. He could also have done it with a lightsaber (we have seen him do it before) but the force was far quicker. Kenobis Soresu style keeps a fight going far longer than necessary. And just because Kenobi is on par with Anakin doesnt mean he could beat Dooku. Different styles, abilities etc.

I read that Dooku DID toss Obi-Wan away with ease, but he genuinly did not expect such feroscity from the two and he was momentarily overwhelmed, hence getting rid of Obi-Wan to even things out.

We will never know for sure if Dooku could have defeated Obi-Wan with a lightsaber in ROTS. Yes he did that in AOTC but he also did the same to Anakin in AOTC. When you watch the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan in ROTS you can clearly see that they are on the same level. In both terms of force control and lightsaber skill. In the end it came down to who was more level headed. It is logical to assume that Obi-Wan could beat Dooku in a skill of lightsabers. So just forget that you even like any of these people and use facts and logic. That is what I do when trying to compare characters.

Im sorry but I dont see why it is 'logical' to assume Kenobi would beat Dooku in a lightsaber duel. Wouldnt it be more logical to assume the Count would win seeing he has the better style, more experience and it is proven he has beaten Kenobi before.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Im sorry but I dont see why it is 'logical' to assume Kenobi would beat Dooku in a lightsaber duel. Wouldnt it be more logical to assume the Count would win seeing he has the better style, more experience and it is proven he has beaten Kenobi before.

Yes it would.

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Yes it would.

Thank you 😄

Are you forgetting that the count is getting old. You need to factor that in too. As a force user get's older they start to rely on the force more and more. And when you get old your reactions slow more and more. Not to mention both Obi-Wan and Anikan the advantage of youth. Dooku would naturaly tire more easily then either one of them. Not to mention that they can move faster speeds easier then Dooku. Dooku would require more use the force to match their speeds then they would need to use to match his. As he used the force more and more eventualy he would tire more and more. That is why Anakin was able to beat him like he did. Also who is to say that Obi-Wan could not have switched to the same style as Anakin in the fight. After all he did teach Anakin it. He just prefered the form that we see him used. It is likly that Obi-Wan would have defeated Dooku too but of course Obi-Wan would not have killed him.

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
Are you forgetting that the count is getting old. You need to factor that in too. As a force user get's older they start to rely on the force more and more. And when you get old your reactions slow more and more. Not to mention both Obi-Wan and Anikan the advantage of youth. Dooku would naturaly tire more easily then either one of them. Not to mention that they can move faster speeds easier then Dooku. Dooku would require more use the force to match their speeds then they would need to use to match his. As he used the force more and more eventualy he would tire more and more. That is why Anakin was able to beat him like he did. Also who is to say that Obi-Wan could not have switched to the same style as Anakin in the fight. After all he did teach Anakin it. He just prefered the form that we see him used. It is likly that Obi-Wan would have defeated Dooku too but of course Obi-Wan would not have killed him.

Ahem. . .age means jack-shit in the SW universe. . .

WTF!?!?! Dooku is said to have the strength of a 40 year old man. He is a master of a style which uses minimum energy and have you looked at Yoda. 800+ years old but still one of the best duellists ever. So your argument about Dooku tiring more easy is a load of bullsh*t.n Your argument about the duo being able to move at faster speeds is also a load of bullsh*t. Dookus attacks are fast and precise. He keeps his lightsaber away from his body so that his attacks are extremely fast and cause the opponent to block wildly.

And also a major part of duelling is the force. The force guides the blade and helps you predict an opponents attack. Dooku is far better than Kenobi with the force. We see that in ROTS when he lifts Kenobi up while force choking him, throws him across the room and drops a steel balcony on him. So this would also aid Dookus skill with a blade.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
WTF!?!?! Dooku is said to have the strength of a 40 year old man. He is a master of a style which uses minimum energy and have you looked at Yoda. 800+ years old but still one of the best duellists ever. So your argument about Dooku tiring more easy is a load of bullsh*t.n Your argument about them being able the duo being able to move at faster speeds is also a load of bullsh*t. Dookus attacks are fast and precise. He keeps his lightsaber away from his body so that his attacks are extremely fast and cause the opponent to block wildly.

And also a major part of duelling is the force. The force guides the blade and helps you predict an opponents attack. Dooku is far better than Kenobi with the force. We see that in ROTS when he lifts Kenobi up while force choking him, throws him across the room and drops a steel balcony on him. So this would also aid Dookus skill with a blade.

Well lets keep in mind that Yoda is an alien but I see your point. . .

Not realy. Do you honestly think Yoda was in in Prime in the PT. I think not. As a jedi gets old you seem them become slower. Proof of this is the lightsaber battle between Obi-Wan & Vader in ANH. Vader moved slow cause he was being cautious. I am sure he was a little nervous after his last fight with Obi-Wan and did not want to make mistakes. As for Obi-Wan. His movement were slow because he was old. Evidently even Palpatine had a blind spot. He did not even know he was being picked up my Vader until he was in the air. So you see old age does count for something in the star wars universe. Experiance may count for something too but Anakin reached a level of skill that took Obi-Wan his whole life to reach in a much shorter time. That shows you that even sometimes the experiance does not always matter. If you were judging by experiance, then Qui-Gon should have beat Maul, Dooku should have beat Anakin, and Yoda should have beat Palpatine. As you can see that in each of these cases the younger fighter won. So clearly age does matter.

Yes. I will agree that as someone gets older that they get weaker physically. But Dooku is an exception because it has been specifically stated he still has the strength of a 40 year old man. Plus with age comes experience. Dookus around 80 and Kenobis around 40. Thats a 40 year age gap - meaning Dooku has a 40 year advantage. So as good as kenobi is, he cant stand up to the master of Makashi - Count Dooku.

This arguement could go on for hours. Let's just agree to disagree. Or agree that they are at about the same level. Which would put Anakin at about the same level too. It is like rock paper scissors with their styles. Anakan>Dooku>Obi-Wan>Anakin. We will never know for sure if Obi-Wan would be Dooku but we do know they are all 3 around the same level.

Well for the record im going to say that Kenobi isnt in the same league as Dooku. But yes, i think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Chuck Norris is a master of the Vapaad form. He can beat them all in two maybe three hits.

Originally posted by BlaxicanTroller
I read that Dooku DID toss Obi-Wan away with ease, but he genuinly did not expect such feroscity from the two and he was momentarily overwhelmed, hence getting rid of Obi-Wan to even things out.
Ding,ding!We have a winner!As stated in the novel,it even says that Dooku's skill,everything he learned in his 83 years of age didn't matter when he was fighting Skywalker,he knew he was fighting a losing battle at that point intime.

Originally posted by DE Luke
Ding,ding!We have a winner!As stated in the novel,it even says that Dooku's skill,everything he learned in his 83 years of age didn't matter when he was fighting Skywalker,he knew he was fighting a losing battle at that point intime.

OHH OHH WHAT DO I WIN!!!!?????11111!!!!

Originally posted by Count Kent
As of the EU version of the ROTS movie,
Dueling Ability:
1. Mace Windu.
2. Yoda.
3. Darth Sidious.
4. Count Dooku.
5. Anakin/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Luminara Unduli.

Force Powers:
1. Mace Windu.
2. Darth Sidious.
3. Yoda.
4. Count Dooku.
5. Anakin Skywalker/Plo Koon.

Do people agree with this? It includes anybody who made an appearence in the EU film ROTS.