Were women suppressed?

Originally posted by Regret
Historical Fact or Historical Fiction?

I am stating a hypothetical for the sake of generating interesting discussion. It is not my belief, but it is an interesting thought, I think 😉 Please don't get all feminist and attack me about this, it is actually a more feminist attitude than the current one that says all the women throughout history up until recently were not intelligent, and that it took women thousands of years to gain basic rights 😉

Assumptions:

1) Women are intelligent, and have always been intelligent. I think we can agree that women are very often more intelligent than most men.

2) Women understand the aspects of being a woman that make them valuable, and have understood these things since the beginning.

3) Women often are more than slightly capable at manipulating men into doing anything they want us to do, and again this has existed forever.

4) Women have always understood intrigue and politics better than they let on, throughout history.

Hypothesis:

Now, given our assumptions, we will reinterpret the state of women through history including the past century or so.

At some point in the ever distant history women were also hunters (and probably survived more frequently than men.) At some point following this women stopped being hunters. Why did they stop? Because they found that if they crooned over some dumb caveman's hunting prowess the stupid man would do it, and they wouldn't have to risk their lives to get meat.

Thus mating for longer periods of time, and to an individual man began to be a good idea. Why was it a good idea? Easy, if you told a man you liked him long enough you could eventually tell him to do anything, given proper phrasing of the desired act. If you told some other dumb caveman he was great you would undermine the brainwashing you had been doing to your main man, so one man was a good idea.

So women did most the rest of the work, men just killed big dangerous animals and brought it back to the waiting woman. Women thought about this, and decided "Hey, why not get him to do everything that I don't really enjoy doing?" So they, the women, start slowly getting men to do more. Now the men are gutting and cleaning their kills before bringing them home. Suddenly men start doing the gathering of fruits, and farming. Women were smart, they had reduced men to little more than trained beasts of burden.

Some men started thinking that women should be doing more, that they should work outside the home as well. So women described the work necessary around the home, and explained to the men that they did not like to do this work, that it was demeaning. They utterly convinced men that the gender roles were his idea, that he forced her to stay at home, she would love to go work outside the home, but she had to stay and do the household work. So now she was able to stay at home, and do all the work she needed to at home without having to travel to a place of work.

Then over time women forgot their intelligent, cunning, plan. Eventually women decided that it really was men that forced them into this state. They forgot that life really sucks, and it is awful nice to work in the home compared to outside the home. And so, in less than a century, women undid the careful work their predecessors had done.

This is some serious bullshit. If you think that women are smarter than us, then you're just a gender traitor. Enjoy your stay in the lowest level of Hell.

yes they were suppressed..

All of you get your asses over to www.angryharry.com and go to the student guide on the left hand side of page and read every last dam article and I'm sure you'll see how it is.

And that statement about women being more intelligent than most men is the biggest bullshit I've seen this week. Were there any women Pascals, Kants, Newtons, Da Vincis?

Originally posted by Akira99
All of you get your asses over to www.angryharry.com and go to the student guide on the left hand side of page and read every last dam article and I'm sure you'll see how it is.

And that statement about women being more intelligent than most men is the biggest bullshit I've seen this week. Were there any women Pascals, Kants, Newtons, Da Vincis?

Originally posted by Regret
The assumptions are based on the fact that it is possible, didn't look for support. I believe that women are and always have been equal to men in genetic makeup.

Your perception of women throughout history is based in original archaeology. The early theories of men and women and their roles were created during a period when women were more "suppressed" by men who believed that men were superior. Newer theories are based somewhat in the older theories. Is it possible that the theories are wrong? Is it possible that we have interpreted much of history from our perspective, especially archaeological history? Look at the animal kingdom, are females helpless with children? Written history was written, for the most part, by whom? Men or women?

This isn't a statement of fact. It is a statement saying "what if?" What if the general interpretation of history is not correct? What if? Is your stance on this based in fact, or the perspective that we see things? We do not [b]know what history was like, archaeologists make extremely educated inferences and guesses as to things like this topic based in large part on the world they live in. I believe they are probably right, I won't second guess them, they have a lot more education on the subject than I. But, it is an interesting thought. I prefer to believe that women chose the roles they filled. I have difficulty believing women were forced to do things they did not want to do. I believe that women are smarter, stronger, and more capable than it seems many people say they were. So yes, I do dislike the typical picture painted of the historical woman. I did not set out to prove anything, just to say "what if?" [/B]

http://www.angryharry.com/esMenareMoreIntelligentthanWomen.htm
Read this article and tell me that women are more intelligent than most men.
And read this article to see how today people would get the impression that women are indeed more intelligent than most men:
http://www.angryharry.com/esWellDonetheGirls.htm

If you read even more articles from that god site you will see that men and women were biologically hard wired to act the way they do throughout evolution and that no successful society has succeeded by treating women badly and that both men AND women made history as we know it

"I think we can agree that women are very often more intelligent than most men."
Then why did boys score higher than girls on ever category in SATS even though there were more girls overall and women get more places in college etc.? Casual, weak and downrite stupid comments like this are not what this world needs if there is ever to be reconcilliation between the two sexes at all

Originally posted by Nogoodnamesleft
This is some serious bullshit. If you think that women are smarter than us, then you're just a gender traitor. Enjoy your stay in the lowest level of Hell.

I think men were angry that women were more clever and more understanding so men made women have less rights and blocked off the potential of women. I think that it is now the other way round. It isnt so equal.

Originally posted by Nogoodnamesleft
This is some serious bullshit. If you think that women are smarter than us, then you're just a gender traitor. Enjoy your stay in the lowest level of Hell.

there's something wrong with you. 🤨

QUOTE=7061125]Originally posted by Akira99
I think true feminists who truly wanted equality with men did exist in the 60s and 70s but now I see that feminism is MOSTLY about one thing that has been VERY successful no matter what way you look at it. To stir up hatred of "men" and the patriarchy. Feminists in the UK have no interest in the well-being of children they just want to use their programs to demonise men. There are very few TRUE feminist left. Where I come from there was survey saying 50% of all women feel they should be allowed to beat their husbands. Boppit jokes are everywhere you look.
As for women being oppressed in the generation preceding ours it has been greatly exaggerated. I am NOT AT ALL saying women were NOT oppessed because they were but they were not NEARLY as oppressed as men by OTHER men! In the World Wars the Generals used to order hundreds of infantry men to charge up the hills just to find out where enemie's weaknesses lay. There was no hope or intention that any of these soldiers would survive or be rescued. Their lives were simply expended in order to provide the General with some information that he was keen to have. It must have been simple awful for the poor soldiers who have returned in psychologically damaged states to discover that their girlfriends had cheated on them while they were away or that they had to return in such a condition that they could never get a woman or have a family.
Of course all this is conveniently forgotten especially by feminists who continue to complain about how 'oppressed' the women were. Sure they were oppressed but against the men who had to continue to live in a premanently handicapped state for the rest of their lives I feel a great deal of anger towards them.
I suppose women were oppressed most of all when Titanic sunk and men were instantly made the lowest class citizens because of chivalry.
I could go like this for hours but theres just too much to say... [ could go on about how the civilisation which women enjoy now ONLY because patriarchy existed for example]
Yes I did get these sources from Angry Harry's website. I like him am very worried because the Men's Movement IS coming and it is unstoppable! When it does I fear for feminists. I really do. They can't stop it but they can certainly reduce the backlash a little by brining their demoinisation of men and their viewpoint to a halt and becoming TRUE feminists. The best way they can reduce the sheer power of the inevitable backlash is to change their hateful viewpoint of heterosexual males pronto [/QUOTE]

Of course it is important to look at how men are and were being effected too and how they were forced into being a certain way, as women were. There was, and still is an image of how men and women should be, and the role they should take. Its so good to look at both sides. I don't agree with feminists who simply demonize men because of their gender, because that is the doing the same thing as what many men do to women. I also don't like the idea that women "should" go out in the world and work if they don't want to. I think that men, and women, need to do what their heart wants.. like if a man wants to stay home and nurture his children he can, and if a women wants to go out in work she can, vice versa. I just wish people who chose to stay home got more recognition for what they do. I agree with you, I think we need to remember true feminism..

I was watching a show last night about African tribes. The women are suppressed, and treated as though they are less then the men. They are "given" to men to marry, and the men can marry other women if they want. But the women can only "belong" to one man. A little boy was crying and a man said something along the lines of "He must be in your clan, because boys in my clan don't cry. Why is he crying?"

I think we need to let go of our old un evolved traditional ways, and start becoming more conscious...

This is some serious bullshit. If you think that women are smarter than us, then you're just a gender traitor. Enjoy your stay in the lowest level of Hell.

Wow somebody has an ego. It must scare the shit out of you to see how smart women are.

I don't like competition between men and women about who is "smarter" and who is not. Because everybody, as individuals, are smart in their own ways. I don't really know the statistics about certain things though. I wonder how truly reliable some are...

Originally posted by Akira99
All of you get your asses over to www.angryharry.com and go to the student guide on the left hand side of page and read every last dam article and I'm sure you'll see how it is.

And that statement about women being more intelligent than most men is the biggest bullshit I've seen this week. Were there any women Pascals, Kants, Newtons, Da Vincis?

Why is it so hard for you to believe that some women may be smarter in certain ways... i think it goes both ways. Women were often times suppressed and demonized if they showed their talent. Thats ridiculous to base your ideas of how "smart" women are on those examples. Ever think about the word HIS-STORY? History books were written by MEN... about men. I'm sure many stories of amazing women far in the past were erased and forgotten...
If you will look around you right now you'll see how much talent there is in BOTH genders There is a lot more freedom now then there was in the past for people to share with the world who they are.

Have you actually read the articles yet? And its not hard at all for me to believe what you said about women being smarter in certain ways. Not at all. Naturally I would love nothing more to see a world where the strongest qualities of both men and women were valued and utilised and through it acceptance of each other and maybe even a Plato's circle closeness to gender equality. At the moment is clear it is the opposite with men being oppressed due to boys not doing so well in school as their natural mascunility is being treated as a disease - masculanity which created the world as we know it down to the last bridge and aeroplane. I'd love to see a society where men are permitted and loved instead of scorned for being men and vice versa for women as well as seeing everyone man or woman as individuals. For a start this whole women live longer by five years but retire earlier by 5 years bullshit can go down the toilet and rather the dating field is more even with men not having to have the sole responsibility of risking their egos asking a woman out and of course women not being undermined and seen as sex objects [strange that they hated being seen this way before but now they seem to want beign seeing as sex-kittens].

You must not assume that every man sees women as inferior because they hate the way men are treated today and resent how men were oppressed even more than women were in the old days. I see myself as a men's right activist [though not yet of considerable skill by a long shot] and I just want the world to be a better place where radical feminism and political correctness are disipated

Originally posted by Akira99
men were oppressed even more than women were in the old days.

you're serious? i imagine there have to be exceptions like slavery in which certain ment were opressed more, but you can't seriously believe men were opressed more than women.

Of course there were exceptions but it didn't change the fact that men generally were expendable in comparison to women as I explained in my previous posts. Read these articles and then tell me why I can't believe men were more oppressed than women. They make sense and sadly its the truth:
http://www.angryharry.com/eswerewomenoppressedinthewest.htm
No. Not compared to the oppression faced by men.

http://www.angryharry.com/esFeminismappearsnotsomuchdeadasobsolete.htm
look at the photos, look at the films and you'll see the evidence for yourself.

http://www.angryharry.com/esAnExclusiveandInsightfulInterview.htm
An Exclusive and Insightful Interview with Angry Harry!
the worthlessness of men

http://www.harrysnews.com/tgWarsAndTheirAftermath.htm
Who Cares about Soldiers? The dismembered veterans will find that almost nobody appreciates what they did, and that few even remember it.

Just read the articles and then make statements that I am wrong with evidence instead of not reading them and sayign I am wrong with no evidence comparible to ones in articles. I am not a hate rof women - I see them as equals [whatever that may mean] and I am NOT saying at all that they were NOT oppressed. Its just lame to complain about such a thing when it is MEN who had the even shorter end of the stick overall and feminism is trying to destroy any appreciation of this

Originally posted by Regret
Historical Fact or Historical Fiction?

I am stating a hypothetical for the sake of generating interesting discussion. It is not my belief, but it is an interesting thought, I think 😉 Please don't get all feminist and attack me about this, it is actually a more feminist attitude than the current one that says all the women throughout history up until recently were not intelligent, and that it took women thousands of years to gain basic rights 😉

Assumptions:

1) Women are intelligent, and have always been intelligent. I think we can agree that women are very often more intelligent than most men.

2) Women understand the aspects of being a woman that make them valuable, and have understood these things since the beginning.

3) Women often are more than slightly capable at manipulating men into doing anything they want us to do, and again this has existed forever.

4) Women have always understood intrigue and politics better than they let on, throughout history.

Hypothesis:

Now, given our assumptions, we will reinterpret the state of women through history including the past century or so.

At some point in the ever distant history women were also hunters (and probably survived more frequently than men.) At some point following this women stopped being hunters. Why did they stop? Because they found that if they crooned over some dumb caveman's hunting prowess the stupid man would do it, and they wouldn't have to risk their lives to get meat.

Thus mating for longer periods of time, and to an individual man began to be a good idea. Why was it a good idea? Easy, if you told a man you liked him long enough you could eventually tell him to do anything, given proper phrasing of the desired act. If you told some other dumb caveman he was great you would undermine the brainwashing you had been doing to your main man, so one man was a good idea.

So women did most the rest of the work, men just killed big dangerous animals and brought it back to the waiting woman. Women thought about this, and decided "Hey, why not get him to do everything that I don't really enjoy doing?" So they, the women, start slowly getting men to do more. Now the men are gutting and cleaning their kills before bringing them home. Suddenly men start doing the gathering of fruits, and farming. Women were smart, they had reduced men to little more than trained beasts of burden.

Some men started thinking that women should be doing more, that they should work outside the home as well. So women described the work necessary around the home, and explained to the men that they did not like to do this work, that it was demeaning. They utterly convinced men that the gender roles were his idea, that he forced her to stay at home, she would love to go work outside the home, but she had to stay and do the household work. So now she was able to stay at home, and do all the work she needed to at home without having to travel to a place of work.

Then over time women forgot their intelligent, cunning, plan. Eventually women decided that it really was men that forced them into this state. They forgot that life really sucks, and it is awful nice to work in the home compared to outside the home. And so, in less than a century, women undid the careful work their predecessors had done.

yes I've heard of this thought before. Women are definitely intelligent and can no doubt manipulate men to do things for them on a very material level. But to answer your question, yes, women and their rights were oppressed (and continue to be in some places) despite their sly nature of being abale to persuade us men out of our bread and butter. The problem is that many women (I've noticed) are very submissive when it comes to one on one dialogue with men (or other women) who are more dominant. That behavior has become ingrained in many many cultures. It's always pretty awesome to run into a hardcore ***** who speaks her mind, but doesn't meet the stereotypes of a bull-dyke...

Originally posted by Akira99
Of course there were exceptions but it didn't change the fact that men generally were expendable in comparison to women as I explained in my previous posts. Read these articles and then tell me why I can't believe men were more oppressed than women. They make sense and sadly its the truth:
http://www.angryharry.com/eswerewomenoppressedinthewest.htm
No. Not compared to the oppression faced by men.

http://www.angryharry.com/esFeminismappearsnotsomuchdeadasobsolete.htm
look at the photos, look at the films and you'll see the evidence for yourself.

http://www.angryharry.com/esAnExclusiveandInsightfulInterview.htm
An Exclusive and Insightful Interview with Angry Harry!
the worthlessness of men

http://www.harrysnews.com/tgWarsAndTheirAftermath.htm
Who Cares about Soldiers? The dismembered veterans will find that almost nobody appreciates what they did, and that few even remember it.

Just read the articles and then make statements that I am wrong with evidence instead of not reading them and sayign I am wrong with no evidence comparible to ones in articles. I am not a hate rof women - I see them as equals [whatever that may mean] and I am NOT saying at all that they were NOT oppressed. Its just lame to complain about such a thing when it is MEN who had the even shorter end of the stick overall and feminism is trying to destroy any appreciation of this

This is a very very biased site.....

Well, Angry Harry is an activist in the British men' s movement.

And no doubt what he says is a little biased and sometimes quite sickly but I think he does make sense. Again have you read his articles? Then you could explain why he is wrong though I do agree that he is biased

Originally posted by Akira99
All of you get your asses over to www.angryharry.com and go to the student guide on the left hand side of page and read every last dam article and I'm sure you'll see how it is.

~ Kryzula