Its not cowardice, its like dying from an illness. Sometimes you just can't hold on any longer, but it is not your fault.
Suicide has causes, it is not just like a decision you do. Its easier to understand when you suffer from some kind of anxiety disorder.
Those who think it is cowardice generally have no idea of what people who think about it pass through.
Originally posted by Atlantis001
Its not cowardice, its like dying from an illness. Sometimes you just can't hold on any longer, but it is not your fault.Suicide has causes, it is not just like a decision you do. Its easier to understand when you suffer from some kind of anxiety disorder.
Those who think it is cowardice generally have no idea of what people who think about it pass through.
...no, that's the other extreme. That's also stupid. It's of course not cowardice...it's not the same as dying from a disease either though. It is your action and decision. You are not a coward for it, nor are you a victim.
^yes, you are a victim. torture a person enough and bind him and make him/her lose hope of anything but the torture and then give them a choice of living in it or dying, and sooner or later , they will choose death. "choice" is a technical term here, they dont reall CHOOSE to die, they madly rush towards any escape they can find when the pain gets too much for them to bear and {often} there seems to be no hope of getting out of it, u just ruch towards the nearest window u can find to jump out of. it is very similar from dying from a disease. people with the most frequency of suicide are people with depression, and depression is a disease, even if the causes are mental or the actiosn of other people or the perception of the world around you.
committing suicide due to nihhlism alone is another thing though. if depression isnt involved at all{almost impossible}
Originally posted by leonheartmmDepression is a disease. Suicide isn't. It might seem like a smart option...maybe event the only option...but it is still an option and you have to take the action. An action can never be the same as a disease....tell someone with cancer that suicide is a disease. Suicide is just an option everyone has. You are not necessarily a troubled victim nor are you a stupid coward. You have to judge on an individual basis.
^yes, you are a victim. torture a person enough and bind him and make him/her lose hope of anything but the torture and then give them a choice of living in it or dying, and sooner or later , they will choose death. "choice" is a technical term here, they dont reall CHOOSE to die, they madly rush towards any escape they can find when the pain gets too much for them to bear and {often} there seems to be no hope of getting out of it, u just ruch towards the nearest window u can find to jump out of. it is very similar from dying from a disease. people with the most frequency of suicide are people with depression, and depression is a disease, even if the causes are mental or the actiosn of other people or the perception of the world around you.committing suicide due to nihhlism alone is another thing though. if depression isnt involved at all{almost impossible}
I don't fully understand the "I attempted suicide" thing, I mean, if you really wanted to kill yourself, it isn't that hard to kill yourself. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's cases where a person was fully committed to dieing, but just happened to live (people have survived a bullet in the head), but I think those are far and few between.
Originally posted by RobtardYeah, I think most are.
I don't fully understand the "I attempted suicide" thing, I mean, if you really wanted to kill yourself, it isn't that hard to kill yourself. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's cases where a person was fully committed to dieing, but just happened to live (people have survived a bullet in the head), but I think those are far and few between.
I mean of course there are the few survided taking the poison, slicing your wrists while jumping in front of a high speed train from a plane 10 000 feet high and a few were just way, way too stupid to kill themselves....but I think that's a minority.
^circumstances and your natural instinct to avoid suffering. overloading of the brain with enough pain/fear to take away rationality and normal reasoning ability plays a part. problems in reality testing and cognition also might play a part. they all force you.
your question is a bit like, "who forces a man dying of hunger to eat?"
Originally posted by leonheartmmThe answer to that would be "no one".
^circumstances and your natural instinct to avoid suffering. overloading of the brain with enough pain/fear to take away rationality and normal reasoning ability plays a part. problems in reality testing and cognition also might play a part. they all force you.your question is a bit like, "who forces a man dying of hunger to eat?"
I think, once again, you have no point.
no, the answer to that would be, NO PERSON. if you are alone at the north pole without adequate clothes, the cold would FORCE you to move sumwhere warmer. even if it wasnt a person, its still circumstances and not just a PREFERENCE which is what is being implied by CHOICE. i do have a point, ur just not willing to accept it.
Originally posted by leonheartmmIf anything your self preservation would force you. But you could just as well decide to stay there and die in the cold. It is a decision. You propose a wholly deterministic world view. If that was true though no decision wouldn't be forced. So it doesn't matter. There is always the physical possibility of not killing yourself. It is NOT A DISEASE.
no, the answer to that would be, NO PERSON. if you are alone at the north pole without adequate clothes, the cold would FORCE you to move sumwhere warmer. even if it wasnt a person, its still circumstances and not just a PREFERENCE which is what is being implied by CHOICE. i do have a point, ur just not willing to accept it.
hmmm, your differenciationn between what is and isnt a disease is silly. cancer is a disease, but death due to cancer is not TECHNICALLY. similarly, depression is a disease, but suicide due to depression isnt, its an affect of the disease. it isnt a choice. if you say it is, then well, i doubt uve ever been in a very suicidal state for prolonged periods.
you can not very well decide to STAY THERE, just like you cant very well decide to HOLD YOUR BREATH long enough to die intentionally. your body doesnt allow it, it gets too much and basic processes take over and force you to act. choice assumes the use of higher brain function with appropritate sanity/control. suicide is not CHOICE!
Originally posted by leonheartmmJust that your body allows you not to use a knife and cut your arteries and your body allows you to stay out in the cold....if you pass out though your body takes over the breathing, so that is different.
hmmm, your differenciationn between what is and isnt a disease is silly. cancer is a disease, but death due to cancer is not TECHNICALLY. similarly, depression is a disease, but suicide due to depression isnt, its an affect of the disease. it isnt a choice. if you say it is, then well, i doubt uve ever been in a very suicidal state for prolonged periods.you can not very well decide to STAY THERE, just like you cant very well decide to HOLD YOUR BREATH long enough to die intentionally. your body doesnt allow it, it gets too much and basic processes take over and force you to act. choice assumes the use of higher brain function with appropritate sanity/control. suicide is not CHOICE!
You know nothing about anything, do you?
Suicide is of course a choice. Idiotic.
your body does not allow you to stay out in the cold. you are choosing specific examples and forgetting what is happening in a depressive brain which forces one to commit suicide. a person is FORCED TO DO SUMTHING ABOUT THE PAIN AND FIND RELEIF. i do know enough about certain things. you on the other hand seems to have no idea about what you are saying. suicide for the great majority is most definately NOT a choice.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
your body does not allow you to stay out in the cold.
Yes it does. Your body only controls certain functions independently of conscious decisions. Going to warm places is not one of them.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
you are choosing specific examples and forgetting what is happening in a depressive brain which forces one to commit suicide.
It does not force you though. People can be depressive for years, contemplating suicide, maybe even trying it. But to ultimately do it is their decision, of course based on surrounding factors, just as any other decision in this world. To say they are forced to kill themselves is stupid though. Deppression is a mental disease. Suicide is a choice. That's just a fact.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
a person is FORCED TO DO SUMTHING ABOUT THE PAIN AND FIND RELEIF.
Why didn't you kill yourself yet then?
Originally posted by leonheartmm
i do know enough about certain things. you on the other hand seems to have no idea about what you are saying. suicide for the great majority is most definately NOT a choice.
Don't be stupid. It is always a choice to take a gun and pull the trigger. No one forces you. Your brain can't force you. You are your freaking brain.
Yes it does. Your body only controls certain functions independently of conscious decisions. Going to warm places is not one of them.
no, in cases of extreme sensations your instincts and reflexes take over. the same way you cant put your hand on a red hot metal rod intentionally, your reflexes will jerk it away, it isnt choice.
It does not force you though. People can be depressive for years, contemplating suicide, maybe even trying it. But to ultimately do it is their decision, of course based on surrounding factors, just as any other decision in this world. To say they are forced to kill themselves is stupid though. Deppression is a mental disease. Suicide is a choice. That's just a fact.
yup they can be, but when it gets TOO MUCH, they do it. to do it when it gets too much for their ability to manage the pain, ISNT their choice then. its instincts and reflexes taking over. depression is a mental disease which can take away rationality and reasoning and force one to commit suicide.
Why didn't you kill yourself yet then?
i dunno. maybe because i can still, at some level, understand or will myself to understand that suicide actually doesnt solve the problem/s that i have and actually makes them worse. sumthing which i can not accept as of yet. other times, i just got lucky i suppose with not having the approproate conditions around me to attempt it.
Don't be stupid. It is always a choice to take a gun and pull the trigger. No one forces you. Your brain can't force you. You are your freaking brain.
dont be stup[id, when you are being put through the hell that sum people go theough, it really isnt, it is releif that your body forces you to acheive.
you seem to have very little empathy
Originally posted by leonheartmm
your body does not allow you to stay out in the cold. you are choosing specific examples and forgetting what is happening in a depressive brain which forces one to commit suicide. a person is FORCED TO DO SUMTHING ABOUT THE PAIN AND FIND RELEIF. i do know enough about certain things. you on the other hand seems to have no idea about what you are saying. suicide for the great majority is most definately NOT a choice.
Dude, suicide is a choice, it's always a choice. The fact that in a certain given situation*, suicide may be the best/better outlet, doesn't take away the fact that it's still a choice.
*If someone were to be torturing you with unimaginable pain, but they gave you a gun and said "you can end the pain by shooting yourself", guess what, shooting yourself is still your choice.
^no, it is a FORCED CHOICE. there is a difference. you didnt go out of your way to do sumthing based on PREFERANCE. forced choice= no choice.
i.e choose to kill your uncle or choose to kill your aunt. its your choice and you have to choose one. oh right i choose my uncle.
judge: YOU "CHOSE" TO KILL YOUR UNCLE, HENCE I SENTENCE YOU TO LIFE IN PRISON!!!!
doesnt work that way. it isnt really choice.