Team Tournament Information and Discussion Thread

Originally posted by leonidas
and if you were khell? you think all those dax's didn't help? c'mon, val. i couldn't care less that they are now banned, but if [b]I was khell and they were banned after the fact, I'D be pissed. had they NOT been present in that other battle the entire opening strategy would have been different from bw and nj and maybe khell and kvd WOULD have won. impossible to say for sure EITHER way, kvd's lack of input not withstanding. you and a couple others are treating this like it was the olympics. it most certainly is NOT. the rules CAN be altered for fairness sake -- as they HAVE been -- and these ARE still run because they are SUPPOSED to be fun, right? being screwed by a 'judges error' in a little, no-gain comic debate tournament doesn't sound too fun. especially when it is easily within the power of digi to offer khell the chance at a FAIR rematch. it also seems to me unlikely that khell would even WANT a rematch, but it doesn't seem right to simply not even give him a say.

and about punishing bw and nj -- they snuck the things in when they obviously should have been banned earlier. and by NOT allowing khell at least a say, you're punishing HIS team. what's the big deal with a rematch? if it's all fair, and bw and nj are as confident as they sound, why would it be a problem?

and before someone yells 'he's scared' (cripes . . . 🙄 ) i have abided carelessly through all this nonsense, and if no one else sees a need to offer khell a rematch so be it. believe me, we have no problem at all battling bw and nj 3v3, like we had no problem 8v8. 😉

it's simply my opinion that fairness should be addressed for ALL teams. and no one in this tourny NEEDS to be screwed by a 'judges' error. [/B]

Furthermore, BW and Newjak didn't sneak in anything since the strategy was clearly ok'd beforehand and repeatedly ok'd after that until today.

Originally posted by newjak86
What Judges error the only reason this has happened is people are now being so cut throat about it the construsts as stated were within the rules just someone
*coughLEO/SCOOBcough* cried about it until you pretty much just got everyone so annoyed with it they just said ban them and be done.

By the way if we were to refight Khell with all this banning of unfair attacks I would probably ask for his teleporting people's body parts and teleporting things into them be eliminated as well like you said leo if an option is open you have to use it 😉

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I had to go through crap to make some kind of fair ruling on the subject (5 being given as the number to any independent constructs...)

Originally posted by newjak86
Listen if you listen to yourselves you basically want to turn this turning into whoever did draft the strngest people because with all the editing you guys want to pull you basically want to turn this into whoever can throw around the strongest attacks instead of who can come up with the most clever ways of winning.

If both of you are so confident that this would never have been considered against the rules, why not mention it in the drafting threads? or even in a PM to Digi and the judges?.... the obvious explanation seems to be that you knew it would be banned and wanted to try to slip it in anyway

Originally posted by newjak86
the only reason this has happened is people are now being so cut throat about it the construsts as stated were within the rules just someone
*coughLEO/SCOOBcough* cried about it until you pretty much just got everyone so annoyed with it they just said ban them and be done.

Hey, I'm a judge in this, if I don't call out the bullsh!t (and it is bullsh!t) that's going on I wouldn't be doing my job

Originally posted by newjak86
By the way if we were to refight Khell with all this banning of unfair attacks I would probably ask for his teleporting people's body parts and teleporting things into them be eliminated as well like you said leo if an option is open you have to use it 😉

One hit kills were banned, the teleporting things into people's heads shouldn't really have been allowed either

Originally posted by newjak86
What Judges error the only reason this has happened is people are now being so cut throat about it the construsts as stated were within the rules just someone
*coughLEO/SCOOBcough* cried about it until you pretty much just got everyone so annoyed with it they just said ban them and be done.

By the way if we were to refight Khell with all this banning of unfair attacks I would probably ask for his teleporting people's body parts and teleporting things into them be eliminated as well like you said leo if an option is open you have to use it 😉

😆

one question, nj: PLEASE answer truthfully . . .

if shaman had been shown to be able to pull out 5 superman gls from his bag, do you think that power would have been banned from this tournament? a simple yes or no would help resolve the legality of this tactic.

i truly can't believe you guys are pretending not to see that the idea was THREEvTHREE. and that your idea goes wholly AGAINST that idea. 🙁 however hard you try to rationalize it, you end up with 5 extra characters. and that's disregarding the fact you never even PROVED he could do it consciously!

and so, what, it's MY fault you didn't argue more against one-hit teleportation kills? 😕

you are absolutely right -- he should NOT have been allowed to try to teleport things into brains. however, as you didn't raise a stink over it, you have only YOURSELF to blame.

btw, i was perfectly fine with the decision to keep your little constructs. kahn and i were actually very PLEASED with that decision as we had our own plan the moment you made your own constructs in your previous match. doesn't mean we felt comfortable using it, though . . .

as far as pre-programing the rings -- the tactic was ok'd by a judge AND digi. who exactly did YOU run your constructs idea by again . . .? i wonder why you didn't run it past the judges or the rest of the competitors . . .?

Originally posted by Validus
Can't speak for the other judges but Khell's loss had little to do with the Daxamites as far as I'm concerned. That was literally about 10% of my final decision. I would personally argue Khell's teleportation strategy is more loaded than any of the Daxamite nonsense. That's a legit one hit kill right there.

Furthermore, BW and Newjak didn't sneak in anything since the strategy was clearly ok'd beforehand and repeatedly ok'd after that until today.

i agree, val. if you were a judge then, why not declare the teleport attacks illegal then and get on with the match? it was within your power, and the power of the other judges, to make sure things were fairly done and it SHOULD have been illegal. but again, i wasn't judging and it wasn't my match so i had no say in anything.

and are you saying that had they brought up the strategy in the pre-tourny discussion, you would have been fine with them bringing in 5 superman gls and that everyone else would have ok'd it as well? hell, shaman couldn't bring in AF dupes, but 5 superman gls would have been ok'd? ❌

you know i respect your opinions, my friend, but on this one we very much disagree . . . 🙁

eek2

I was gone for one evening and this is what I come back to?

So the independent constructs are banned, 30 second prep, and we are starting round six over at some point. Anything else?

Two key things: I couldnt have mentioned it before because I DID NOT know about it during drafting. As for running it past the judges I let at least two of them know about it.

and independant constructs were allowed so long as the person who constructed them when died would also "kill" the constructs. Shaman bringing in temporal copies would be illegal and against the rules simply because after he created them and he died they would not.

I say this is BS. We ask about it get it approved, learn something new and decide to be clever with it. Now being clever is against the rules?? So next time should we just have a match were everybody gets one free hit while standing in line and whoever dies first loses?

bw, do you really -- truly -- think that you have remained 100% inside the spirit of the established rules of 3v3?

and whether they die with kyle or not, they are 5 extras. even if shaman's af died with him, they STILL would not have been accepted.

Originally posted by leonidas
😆

one question, nj: PLEASE answer truthfully . . .

[b]if shaman had been shown to be able to pull out 5 superman gls from his bag, do you think that power would have been banned from this tournament? a simple yes or no would help resolve the legality of this tactic.

i truly can't believe you guys are pretending not to see that the idea was THREEvTHREE. and that your idea goes wholly AGAINST that idea. 🙁 however hard you try to rationalize it, you end up with 5 extra characters. and that's disregarding the fact you never even PROVED he could do it consciously!

and so, what, it's MY fault you didn't argue more against one-hit teleportation kills? 😕

you are absolutely right -- he should NOT have been allowed to try to teleport things into brains. however, as you didn't raise a stink over it, you have only YOURSELF to blame.

btw, i was perfectly fine with the decision to keep your little constructs. kahn and i were actually very PLEASED with that decision as we had our own plan the moment you made your own constructs in your previous match. doesn't mean we felt comfortable using it, though . . .

as far as pre-programing the rings -- the tactic was ok'd by a judge AND digi. who exactly did YOU run your constructs idea by again . . .? i wonder why you didn't run it past the judges or the rest of the competitors . . .? [/B]

Secondly I'm going to talk about the BS BW is talking about even more. Honestly it has been nothing but BS concerning these things. Listen the idea of five indpenedent constructs was OKed before the tourny started. None of the GL Daxamites were over the limit set by the tourny.

Basically from before the match started they were OKed even. During the match they were re OKed as legal.
Then after the match you brought up and almost everyone REOKed for the third time.
It WASN'T until Scoobs started spouting off again that you Leo decided to restart it up and then after ten pages of debate suddenly everyone seees the light it seems more like you guys had annoyed them into seeing your way and that is possibly the biggest BS about this entire thing.

This issue needs to be put to rest.

I initially sided with you 2 (BW and Newjak) because I was upholding the judgment of Digi and the established rules, but upon further analysis all this has proven is that no individual involved in this tournament is infallable, which is why we need to discuss things as a group (and should have thoroughly discussed things beforehand).

I was not a part of the rule making process. I originally wanted to be a participant but I was gone from the board for a month or so and missed the draft and I was in training for my new position during round 1 so I wouldn't have had the time to be a combatant. I chose to be a judge instead.

As a judge it's my job to enforce the rules.

It's that simple.

I didn't create the rules, I didn't even have a say in their drafting, and the rules as they stand were simply too open to interpretation (and manipulation). This whole situation falls under hindsight being 20/20 and the loophole clause which was initiated during the process.

While your team's constructs, independently, arguably do not surpass Thanos, collectively (meaning Kyle, plus 5 Daxamites with Oan Powers and access to Speedforce abilities, all under one roster spot) most certainly do.

Now newjak, I understand that you take issue with me (and Scoob) calling your team out for various rule discretions, quite honestly, I could care less. You might want to talk to your partner B-Dub because I've been more than fair to your team which he is quite aware of and will inform you about.

It's not a matter of the judges making the argument for the combatants, it's a matter of the combatants taking liberty with the already ambiguous rules and forcing us to make a decision one way or the other early on in the battle in the interest of fairness for this tournament. You can be as clever as you want, but once something starts to skew further from the gray and into the red we're going to speak on it whether you like it or not. That's our purpose.

I now have nothing more to say on the matter.

Good luck in your battle, Gentlemen.

newjak, you must be kidding . . .

i had completely dropped the subject til scoob (who IS a judge and who never DID vote on the tactic) brought it back up then digi ALLOWED for it to reopen!

i said it long ago -- it didn't matter to me if they were used because WE could use them too. doesn't make it any less immoral.

fact: rules were meant to enforce THREE on THREE. you disagree? what don't you get about that? you had EIGHT independently operating beings on your team that were at the very threshhold of tourny limits!! how do you NOT see that as being wrong?

fact: you NEVER proved he could even make them consciously, let alone without any reprecussions to himself or his mind!! yes, the ring made them, and to do so it stole parts of kyle's personality! cripes . . .

i also stated a long time ago when i initially raised it and it was ok'd that i was FINE with the decision. and i DID drop it, til it was brought up again. our constructs are more powerful than yours! who do you think this banning hurts more?

dude, come to grips -- you do know the winner doesn't get a gold medal or a $1000000, right? it is meant to be fun and fair, and your rationalizing it as clever doesn't mean that it is a fair tactic, or within the spirit of the rules set forth.

3 on 3. not 8 on 3. not that hard . . .

oh, and my track record for being able to 'sway' events has been just stellar in this event . . . 🙄 hell, even in THIS case it took scoob to say something as my initial objection was turned down.

meh, i'm done with the topic. hell, if you want to win so desperately, you can HAVE our match. i talked to kahn (who by the way feels exactly the same way i do) already and he doesn't care any more about this shambles than i do at this point.

congrats, you clever boys. 😉

Originally posted by TheKahn
eek2

I was gone for one evening and this is what I come back to?

So the independent constructs are banned, 30 second prep, and we are starting round six over at some point. Anything else?

Nah, that about covers it.

And please, I understand the desire to win, but this is a comics tourney....let's try to A. keep it simple, and B. show as much class as possible when it comes to any and all rule changes.

This is the one problem I have with tourneys, because things like this always come up (in any tourney format) and rarely are there easy answers. Keeping things respectful and not controversial ha always been a problem. Let's try to prove my fears wrong and just move forward here.

Originally posted by illadelph12
This issue needs to be put to rest.

I initially sided with you 2 (BW and Newjak) because I was upholding the judgment of Digi and the established rules, but upon further analysis all this has proven is that [b]no individual involved in this tournament is infallable, which is why we need to discuss things as a group (and should have thoroughly discussed things beforehand).

I was not a part of the rule making process. I originally wanted to be a participant but I was gone from the board for a month or so and missed the draft and I was in training for my new position during round 1 so I wouldn't have had the time to be a combatant. I chose to be a judge instead.

As a judge it's my job to enforce the rules.

It's that simple.

I didn't create the rules, I didn't even have a say in their drafting, and the rules as they stand were simply too open to interpretation (and manipulation). This whole situation falls under hindsight being 20/20 and the loophole clause which was initiated during the process.

While your team's constructs, independently, arguably do not surpass Thanos, collectively (meaning Kyle, plus 5 Daxamites with Oan Powers and access to Speedforce abilities, all under one roster spot) most certainly do.

Now newjak, I understand that you take issue with me (and Scoob) calling your team out for various rule discretions, quite honestly, I could care less. You might want to talk to your partner B-Dub because I've been more than fair to your team which he is quite aware of and will inform you about.

It's not a matter of the judges making the argument for the combatants, it's a matter of the combatants taking liberty with the already ambiguous rules and forcing us to make a decision one way or the other early on in the battle in the interest of fairness for this tournament. You can be as clever as you want, but once something starts to skew further from the gray and into the red we're going to speak on it whether you like it or not. That's our purpose.

I now have nothing more to say on the matter.

Good luck in your battle, Gentlemen. [/B]

Basically everything else you've called us out on has been wrong. You said we couldn't make as many shields as we wanted Digi came in here and said there isn't any limit in it as long as it pertains to shields.

And if you want to know the truth Ill your job is to read the arguements and decide who was the better debator not what your opinion on a rule is which is the truth just because your a judge doesn't mean your view on something is the only one that is true. 😉

Secondly I have no beef with you Ill I'm just tired of all the BS going on here which does include you in it.

Whats "here"? Id like to know what I can and cant do so when someone comes crying again I can have something to fall back on.

Originally posted by leonidas
newjak, you must be kidding . . .

i had completely dropped the subject til scoob (who IS a judge and who never DID vote on the tactic) brought it back up then digi ALLOWED for it to reopen!

i said it long ago -- it didn't matter to me if they were used because WE could use them too. doesn't make it any less immoral.

fact: rules were meant to enforce THREE on THREE. you disagree? what don't you get about that? you had EIGHT independently operating beings on your team that were at the very threshhold of tourny limits!! how do you NOT see that as being wrong?

fact: you NEVER proved he could even make them consciously, let alone without any reprecussions to himself or his mind!! yes, the ring made them, and to do so it stole parts of kyle's personality! cripes . . .

i also stated a long time ago when i initially raised it and it was ok'd that i was FINE with the decision. and i DID drop it, til it was brought up again. our constructs are more powerful than yours! who do you think this banning hurts more?

dude, come to grips -- you do know the winner doesn't get a gold medal or a $1000000, right? it is meant to be fun and fair, and your rationalizing it as clever doesn't mean that it is a fair tactic, or within the spirit of the rules set forth.

3 on 3. not 8 on 3. not that hard . . .

oh, and my track record for being able to 'sway' events has been just stellar in this event . . . 🙄 hell, even in THIS case it took scoob to say something as my initial objection was turned down.

meh, i'm done with the topic. hell, if you want to win so desperately, you can HAVE our match. i talked to kahn (who by the way feels exactly the same way i do) already and he doesn't care any more about this shambles than i do at this point.

congrats, you clever boys. 😉

Your constructs may on the surface be stronger trust me I had a simple counter for them.

Whatever you want to say they aren't completely indpenedent if Kyle goes they go and that is the point.

Secondly I beleive me and BW have done nothing but try and make this tourny fun between making banners for our team and making little funny jokes and snide comments me and BW have been doing anything but making this tourny unfun.

Unfair you want to talk about unfair I can make a list everything me and BW have had done to us that was unfair but in the end we always ended up droppin the matter for the most part.

WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS? WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS??? 😗

Originally posted by batdude123
WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS? WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS??? 😗

At the moment I am P*ssed beyond belief with the situation right now

You know who would've been a pretty good choice for this tourney? Firestorm. 😉

Originally posted by newjak86
We will be after the tourny is over but.......

At the moment I am P*ssed beyond belief with the situation right now

But is it really THAT big of a deal???? It's not like your whole strategy revolves around them, so just plan accordingly. 😬 Also, there is only 30 seconds of prep....

Originally posted by batdude123
But is it really THAT big of a deal???? It's not like your whole strategy revolves around them, so just plan accordingly. 😬 Also, there is only 30 seconds of prep....