Originally posted by ixie
Does immune to telepathy mean immune to psy blast? because WW probably can't block psy blast.
That's what I was thinking, I always thought WW was Psylocke Immune, didn't know she just see's through illusions. If someone was to shut of her brain functions(If she has a brain, but she should since in Greek Mythology man was modelled after the Gods) what she going to do then?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
That's what I was thinking, I always thought WW was Psylocke Immune, didn't know she just see's through illusions. If someone was to shut of her brain functions(If she has a brain, but she should since in Greek Mythology man was modelled after the Gods) what she going to do then?
Wrong actually. She regularly faces two uber-telepaths who don't do dipshit to her in telepathy. Including psy-blasts. Doctor Psycho and Tri-Maid.
Wonder Woman was always (though every JLA comic forgets it....) immune to telepathy simply do to the fires of Hestia's Truth she holds in her mind.
In her own comic, Martian Manhunter has failed to read or attack Diana's mind simply because of this gift. As well as Hector Hammond and Doctor Psycho.
Diana got a upgrade with the Eyes of Pallas which boosts her telepathic immunity (people CAN read or speak with her telepathically as long as she allows it) AND gave her a semi-cosmic awareness depending on where she looks.
She sees with a god's eyes and understands with a god's wisdom. Which makes her immune to any and all forms of telepathy.
Also if she channels her Spirit of Truth while holding her lasso, she's even immune to the psychic manipulations of the gods, Neron and even the likes of Heaven itself.
Wonder Woman would win a speedblitz anyway.
Originally posted by Draco69
Wrong actually. She regularly faces two uber-telepaths who don't do dipshit to her in telepathy. Including psy-blasts. Doctor Psycho and Tri-Maid.Wonder Woman was always (though every JLA comic forgets it....) immune to telepathy simply do to the fires of Hestia's Truth she holds in her mind.
In her own comic, Martian Manhunter has failed to read or attack Diana's mind simply because of this gift. As well as Hector Hammond and Doctor Psycho.
Diana got a upgrade with the Eyes of Pallas which boosts her telepathic immunity (people CAN read or speak with her telepathically as long as she allows it) AND gave her a semi-cosmic awareness depending on where she looks.
She sees with a god's eyes and understands with a god's wisdom. Which makes her immune to any and all forms of telepathy.
Also if she channels her Spirit of Truth while holding her lasso, she's even immune to the psychic manipulations of the gods, Neron and even the likes of Heaven itself.
Wonder Woman would win a speedblitz anyway.
Ok so the match up should <I>REALLY</I> be, Wonder Woman (With all the bells and whistles and power ups) versus Jean Grey with shields up (And she has the phoenix power, she just is just gonna ignore it). Sound good?
Sounds pretty stupid to me. I am sure that Wonder Woman will win this. But, why have her fight Jean Grey then, how about someone's grandmother, that is about the power level everyone seems to want to put Jean at for this firght.
Here is another idea, Superman as Clark Kent (He has his super powers, he is just gonna not use them, he is gonna CHOOSE to not be strong and durable and forget about his ability to fly and speed) versus Thor, Gladiator, Hulk, Doomsday, Thanos, Silver Surfer and The Living Tribunal in a 6 on 1.
Originally posted by Draco69
Wrong actually. She regularly faces two uber-telepaths who don't do dipshit to her in telepathy. Including psy-blasts. Doctor Psycho and Tri-Maid.Wonder Woman was always (though every JLA comic forgets it....) immune to telepathy simply do to the fires of Hestia's Truth she holds in her mind.
In her own comic, Martian Manhunter has failed to read or attack Diana's mind simply because of this gift. As well as Hector Hammond and Doctor Psycho.
Diana got a upgrade with the Eyes of Pallas which boosts her telepathic immunity (people CAN read or speak with her telepathically as long as she allows it) AND gave her a semi-cosmic awareness depending on where she looks.
She sees with a god's eyes and understands with a god's wisdom. Which makes her immune to any and all forms of telepathy.
Also if she channels her Spirit of Truth while holding her lasso, she's even immune to the psychic manipulations of the gods, Neron and even the likes of Heaven itself.
Wonder Woman would win a speedblitz anyway.
Fair enough, Jean still has TK though, and since the thread starter said that Jean starts off with her shields up...it's doubtful anyone is getting through considering Supes had a problem in the Marvel/DC crossover. But as we all know it's not cannon so I guess that doesn't count. Well unless this version of Jean Grey is the inexperienced version, Jean Grey will take it.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Fair enough, Jean still has TK though, and since the thread starter said that Jean starts off with her shields up...it's doubtful anyone is getting through considering Supes had a problem in the Marvel/DC crossover. But as we all know it's not cannon so I guess that doesn't count. Well unless this version of Jean Grey is the inexperienced version, Jean Grey will take it.
I disagree that her shields simply won't be overcome due to extreme stress or outright shattered.
Wonder Woman once managed to tow 1/3 of the Earth's mass against the Sun's gravity AND Genyome's magic. That's several billion, million quintillion tons. Literally. Perhaps a slight exaggeration but you get the point
Now let's apply simple physics. Diana is capable to lift and press the weight above making her unbelievably strong. Her greatest speed feat was being able reach the SpeedForce to prevent Jesse Quick from killing a villain which requires at least lightspeed.
Now IMAGINE a person with Diana's strength level hitting Jean's shields at near-lightspeed. Imagine the amount of force she would be hitting Jean's shields with. Every blow would be like Hiroshima squared, timed by 1000 and squared again.
I have faith in Jean to deflect a normal blow from Diana. But a blow coming THAT fast and THAT hard? Nuh-uh. That shield's coming down and Jean will explode like a melon when Diana directly hits her.
Northstar had NORMAL human strength and only hit people at Mach 3. Can you imagine Diana.
Also, Jean will have a very hard time tracking Diana due to her massive speed difference and reaction time difference. Diana will be ahead of Jean by several hundred steps.
Also the lasso has the ability to dispel all shields if wrapped around it or used as a whip.
Originally posted by Draco69
I disagree that her shields simply won't be overcome due to extreme stress or outright shattered.Wonder Woman once managed to tow 1/3 of the Earth's mass against the Sun's gravity AND Genyome's magic. That's several billion, million quintillion tons. Literally. Perhaps a slight exaggeration but you get the point
Now let's apply simple physics. Diana is capable to lift and press the weight above making her unbelievably strong. Her greatest speed feat was being able reach the SpeedForce to prevent Jesse Quick from killing a villain which requires at least lightspeed.
Now IMAGINE a person with Diana's strength level hitting Jean's shields at near-lightspeed. Imagine the amount of force she would be hitting Jean's shields with. Every blow would be like Hiroshima squared, timed by 1000 and squared again.
I have faith in Jean to deflect a normal blow from Diana. But a blow coming THAT fast and THAT hard? Nuh-uh. That shield's coming down and Jean will explode like a melon when Diana directly hits her.
Northstar had NORMAL human strength and only hit people at Mach 3. Can you imagine Diana.
Also, Jean will have a very hard time tracking Diana due to her massive speed difference and reaction time difference. Diana will be ahead of Jean by several hundred steps.
Also the lasso has the ability to dispel all shields if wrapped around it or used as a whip.
So Diana is going to have to leave the Earths Atmosphere to gain enough momentum, so she can blitz Jean. And even then it's probably that Omega Level TK Shields will hold as her shields have never been shattered before. What's stopping Jean from holding her still with her TK and tying her up with her own lasso?(She could extend her TK into field range rather then individual objects) Or ripping Diana molecule by molecule. Remember she doesn't need to keep track of WW, she could dismember all matter around a certain radius of herself. If WW enters that field she's demolecularised.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
So Diana is going to have to leave the Earths Atmosphere to gain enough momentum, so she can blitz Jean. And even then it's probably that Omega Level TK Shields will hold as her shields have never been shattered before. What's stopping Jean from holding her still with her TK and tying her up with her own lasso?(She could extend her TK into field range rather then individual objects) Or ripping Diana molecule by molecule. Remember she doesn't need to keep track of WW, she could dismember all matter around a certain radius of herself. If WW enters that field she's demolecularised.
Diana doesn't need to leave the Earth's atmosphere to gain momentum. She just has to go between the space between A to B. Which Jean's face. Which will explode.
Diana's speed is magical. She can go as fast as she wants instantly. (Wonder Woman #69)
Who has she held her shields held against that's worthy of mention? Like the Hulk or Silver Surfer. I know her shields are strong. But I doubt they could sustain thousands of near-lightspeed blows from a woman who can literally tote the moon....
And as stated before the lasso (which only Diana command if she sees it fit; even Hecate tried to magically command the lasso with magical TK but failed to do so because Diana made it not to) can dispel any shield. Even the shields of a god or the Imperiux probes.
What's stopping from Jean holding Diana still? Speed and strength. Diana is too fast for Jean to capture her.
"Oops. She was there just a second ago."
As for a wide area effect, Diana has the Eyes of Pallas which acts as a semi-cosmic awareness. The moment Jean goes read, Diana will instantly know what's she's going to do and high tail it out of there.
Also factor in, Diana's sheer arsenal such as the Invisible Plane that would heal Diana when needed and supply her with any weapons she needs. Another is the Head of Medousa which if whipped out will instantly turn Jean to stone.
Originally posted by Draco69
Diana doesn't need to leave the Earth's atmosphere to gain momentum. She just has to go between the space between A to B. Which Jean's face. Which will explode.Diana's speed is magical. She can go as fast as she wants instantly. (Wonder Woman #69)
Who has she held her shields held against that's worthy of mention? Like the Hulk or Silver Surfer. I know her shields are strong. But I doubt they could sustain thousands of near-lightspeed blows from a woman who can literally tote the moon....
And as stated before the lasso (which only Diana command if she sees it fit; even Hecate tried to magically command the lasso with magical TK but failed to do so because Diana made it not to) can dispel any shield. Even the shields of a god or the Imperiux probes.
What's stopping from Jean holding Diana still? Speed and strength. Diana is too fast for Jean to capture her.
"Oops. She was there just a second ago."As for a wide area effect, Diana has the Eyes of Pallas which acts as a semi-cosmic awareness. The moment Jean goes read, Diana will instantly know what's she's going to do and high tail it out of there.
Also factor in, Diana's sheer arsenal such as the Invisible Plane that would heal Diana when needed and supply her with any weapons she needs. Another is the Head of Medousa which if whipped out will instantly turn Jean to stone.
So you're saying that WW can gain enough momentum to travel at light speed almost instantly? Omega Level TK is Omega Level TK, it hasn't been shattered before therefore it is doubtful that it'd ever be shattered. It's like Diana having her lasso snapped in two.
Jeans TK Shield may be considered a shield to us, but technically it isn't a shield. Two, it isn't magical either. The lasso dispelling TK ain't going to happen.
If WW High tails it out of there it of there then she's giving Jean even more time to extend her radius even further. And well there's nothing Diana can do to retaliate.
If we're going to bring Diana's semi-cosmic awareness into this then you might as well grant Jean her cosmic awareness from her Phoenix Potential. She could use that to know what Diana's next move is.
In Uncanny X-Men before Jean realised a fraction of her Phoenix Potential, when she fixed a Neutron Galaxy, the M'Kraan Crystal was going berzerk and Cyclops fired a blast at Jean. Jean's Body became intagible to avoid the blast. If WW does happen to get past her TK shield then her Phoenix Potential will save her instantly.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
No Phoenix. It's not that hard a concept.
And her Phoenix Potential ie Omega Potential?
As I've said before Jean has no feats without her Phoenix Potential meaning she'll lose by default if that occured.
You already crippled her powers by removing the Phoenix, now you want to remove her Phoenix Potential(Omega Potential)?
It's called a hypothetical. E.g. Emma Frost doesn't have her diamond form. Or Superman can't use his superspeed. Feats of Emma's telepathy or Superman's strength, heat vision etc respectively aren't made null. There are multiple appearances where Jean Grey is just Jean Grey a powerful telekinetic and telepath.
Saying that she is automatically saved because she'll become Phoenix if she needs to is a ridiculous cop-out in a thread that says "No Phoenix."
Besides even in appearances where she was Phoenix she's been "Jggg"ed.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's called a hypothetical. E.g. Emma Frost doesn't have her diamond form. Or Superman can't use his superspeed. Feats of Emma's telepathy or Superman's strength, heat vision etc respectively aren't made null. There are multiple appearances where Jean Grey is just Jean Grey a powerful telekinetic and telepath.Saying that she is automatically saved because she'll become Phoenix if she needs to is a ridiculous cop-out in a thread that says "No Phoenix."
Besides even in appearances where she was Phoenix she's been "Jggg"ed.
It's not saying that she'll be saved because she'll become the Phoenix. It's saying that she'll be saved due to her Omega Potential, which allow her to use her powers in such a way.(Phoenix Potential)
Suppressing powers is one thing, but suppressing the limits of a persons power? (As her TK does not work on a molecular level without her Omega Potential.)
If you want to remove her Omega Potential aswell, you might as well have Hellion Fight Diana. Meaning this thread has become a one sided spite thread.
Also in all those appearances where Jean was just Jean she still had her Phoenix Potenital.(Omega Potential)
Nah for a one-sided spite/joke thread see Plastic Man vs Jean Grey, no telekinesis 😖hifty:.
If a thread is just Iceman vs ....... where he doesn't have his Omega Potential, all his feats where he as written without powers augmented to such levels are still valid... despite the fact that he had the potential to do things he couldn't do at the time.
I think whoever made this intended exactly what this as a serious thread. And seriously... I can't really think of anyone really Moon-towing, lightspeedingly notable off the top of my head that Jean's shields have held up against.
I really can't comprehend why it's so difficult (for this character in particular) for people to step outside the box for a moment and conceptually separate appearances where she was written as having the Phoenix Force augmenting her abilities e.g. Endsong and those where she wasn't e.g. X-Factor.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Nah for a one-sided spite/joke thread see Plastic Man vs Jean Grey, no telekinesis 😖hifty:.If a thread is just Iceman vs ....... where he doesn't have his Omega Potential, all his feats where he as written without powers augmented to such levels are still valid... despite the fact that he had the potential to do things he couldn't do at the time.
I think whoever made this intended exactly what this as a serious thread. And seriously... I can't really think of anyone really Moon-towing, lightspeedingly notable off the top of my head that Jean's shields have held up against.
I really can't comprehend why it's so difficult (for this character in particular) for people to step outside the box for a moment and conceptually separate appearances where she was written as having the Phoenix Force augmenting her abilities e.g. Endsong and those where she wasn't e.g. X-Factor.
I suppose...I was thinking more along the lines of New X-Men Jean though she still had her Omeganess in X-Factor as well...
So will the feat where Jean bypassed Juggernauts Magical Enchantments with her Telepathy count? Meaning there's a high probability of Jean bypassing Diana's Mental Defences.
BTW Nice Plasticman thread.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Iunno 😬... frankly I think she'd get speedblitzed since I can't think of anyone notable her shields have held up against right now.
What about Superman in that non cannon crossover?(That's the closest they've ever come to fighting each other)
There's Gladiator but I think she was the Phoenix when she fought him. Think it was because her Omega Potential allowed her to augement her TK to whatever strength level she pleased.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak😬 I think you answered your own question...
What about Superman in that non cannon crossover?
Wolverine does not beat Lobo, Storm gets her ass handed to her if she picks a fight with WW and Wolverine's bone claws would do nothing to Thanos except shatter against him...
Originally posted by ExodusCloakIs this in retro Uncanny where she was written as the Phoenix augmenting her abilities... Again... somewhat rhetorical question...
There's Gladiator but I think she was the Phoenix when she fought him. However her Omega Potential did allow her to augement her TK to whatever strength level she pleased.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
😬 I think you answered your own question...Wolverine does not beat Lobo, Storm gets her ass handed to her if she picks a fight with WW and Wolverine's bone claws would do nothing to Thanos except shatter against him...Is this in retro Uncanny where she was written as the Phoenix augmenting her abilities... Again... somewhat rhetorical question...
So we're in agreement Diana wins. ✅ 😊
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
😬 I think you answered your own question...Wolverine does not beat Lobo, Storm gets her ass handed to her if she picks a fight with WW and Wolverine's bone claws would do nothing to Thanos except shatter against him...Is this in retro Uncanny where she was written as the Phoenix augmenting her abilities... Again... somewhat rhetorical question...
There's also Juggernaut, where she locked the him in a band of TK, which stopped him for a while. That could buy her enough time to by pass Diana's magical defences.