Lucifer hits the Gauntlet !!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]You presented your OPINION on the crystal as gospel truth, dismissing all other accounts despite having only based your "factual" account on one out of context scan. Arrogant? ✅ Naive? Most definitely 😮

When your fallacy was brought to light, you conceded as you should have done so let go of the unwarranted ego and lets leave it at that now k?

So now your trying to take the high road?

Fallacy? All you've presented is opinions and lies. Like I said, your too thick headed to admit anything kid. You prance about someone when it suits you, but when it comes to you it try to act all rightous and never acknowledge your lies.

Irrelevant point. We dont know need to know what manipulation she performed, we know the level she did it at (atomic) and the scale she did it at (universal) whilst it was in the palm of her hand giving us her feat.

More nonesense from you I see. Her biggest feat was forming the existing universe in her hands.

The integral point however is that we were told to what ends it was being performed to, i.e. the fixing of broken universe by growing it a new future.

A feat anyone with a time machine and Xavier's powers can do. 🙄 Changing someone's mind in the past to change future outcome. 🙄 WOW!!! BIGGEST FEETS EVEZ.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]Handled previously. Dont need to know the process she went through, we were given the level and the scale of the manipulation and told what it was being performed to(a universe) giving us a feat of power plus we were told previously to what ends these actions were being performed and we were provided with a successful end result.

Whose looking for the process? I asked you how she could perform such a task without knowing what it was. And I was looking for why atoms were needed to be controlled.

Don't worry yourself son, it turns out that she needed to "control all those atoms" to form the universe in her hands. And that was the hard part according to her Conscious.

The irony (check an online dictionary) of this statement had me rolling on the floor.

Unless you know the ins and out of a character youre attempting to debate about dont try and present your opinion on the matter as the infallible truth.

😱

So I guess then we can expect that you'll keep your mouth shut about the Cosmic Cube, the Infinity Gauntlet, the Goddess, Eternity, and the Living Tribunal.

You have not read the relevant material, your opinion is just based on a handful of scans so how very arrogant of you to present yourself as the enlightened one in the face of someone who has actually bothered to read up on the material hes debating. 👇

I see. Because you've read the revelant materials we should all believe your not b.s.ing the rest of us? Does it sound like I care for some fanboy whose read all the revelant material but b.s. everyone about events in the story to better their pet character? 🤣

All you've presented is NOTHING but YOUR OPINIONS regarding the Phoenix's place being above other cosmics.

The irony is that every time I pick up an issue where certain Phoenix feats you claim as the highest EVER, there's a grin on my face when I find those feats and claims overly exagerated or never happened. What credibility do you really have kid when what I've seen is a biased fanboy opinions presented as facts.

I do look forward to another lecture and more hypocracy. It just lights me up with amusement at the nonesense you try to present as a high road.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]Well actually ive shown you scans from multiple realities marking out Phoenix as the initiator of said reality, so thats not true.

You shown scans here and there that refer to the 616. I've yet to see one for another universe.

What your saying is not true. Those references refer to the present universe, which is the result of an unknown number of cycles. Those cycles of the universe dying and coming into being had to have a beginning.

On top of that its stated in LTs handbook entry that all realities within the multiverse possess similar hierarchical structures and the same fundamental forces. Thats what makes it a multiverse as opposed to seperate self contained universes. The New Universe for example is one such seperate universe.

What's your point? It's not like the PF created the multiverse. Point to a reference from the handbooks refering to such a thing if that's what you're saying.

Such concepts come about after the birth of a universe, after life which Phoenix initiates. The abstracts are merely embodiments of universal concepts.

🙄

So she created such concepts? The VERY FIRST UNIVERSE EVER!?! THE MULTIVERSE AT IT'S VERY BEGINNING?

I'll try to clarify, did she create such concepts as judge, jury, and executioner? The very things the Living Tribunal represents? You see what I'm getting at? Power!!! Her powers? Where does that come from?

T O A A

All true. I cant argue against this as it doesnt change Phoenixes role as the power that initiates the life cycle of universes. 🙂

The intiator of the big bang from existing universe's death. Merely a part of the cycles of a universe and plays a role like every other cosmics. It's the not creator but just a cosmic that's job equivilant to restarting the universe.

Originally posted by Cubicks
Even though this all way off topic I just sat through and read all the posts. I have to give props to Mr. Master for sticking to his guns. He makes a statement and backs it up with scans. Kudos to Mr. Master 👆 clap

Oops same to WWK.

whistling Thanks Cubicks. It's nice to here support from a fellow poster.

Originally posted by RUNMAN
Have to give props to the 3 main guys in this thread: Mr. Master, WWK and GS! 😮‍💨 😮‍💨 😮‍💨 😮‍💨

nosweat

I appreciate it RUNMAN. Thanx.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
More nonesense from you I see. Her biggest feat was forming the existing universe in her hands.

A feat anyone with a time machine and Xavier's powers can do. 🙄 Changing someone's mind in the past to change future outcome. 🙄 WOW!!! BIGGEST FEETS EVEZ.

That makes a lot more sense, forming the universe in the palm of her hand was what the Phoenix conscience was talking about. And the changing of one event in the past would fix the amputated timeline because the amputation would have never taken place in the first place.

It's simple and yet so clear now.
Good job.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
That makes a lot more sense, forming the universe in the palm of her hand was what the Phoenix conscience was talking about. And the changing of one event in the past would fix the amputated timeline because the amputation would have never taken place in the first place.

It's simple and yet so clear now.
Good job.

😄

Thnx ExodusCloak.

Originally posted by Cubicks
He "absorbed" them.

I never said that he did absorb the PF so no argument there.

You said he could not destroy the PF and I stated that you were basing that on the absence of facts. I never said that he could, only it is unproven either way.

Ok.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is POST - Retcon Beyonder who was a UNIVERSE vs Kubik

Here is Kubik(Cosmic Cube)not only holding a Universe in the palm of his hand, but he actually WARPED this ENTIRE Universe into a sphere the size of his hand, and was ready to crush it too.

Are you convinced?

Wait, wait. That is not close in league of Phoenix holding 616 Universe.

That was a pocket Universe, Beyonder pocket dimension, nothing to 616 Universe.
And like I said, Pheonix manipulating Universe atom by atom is far more impressive than destroying the Universe.

Son no, I am not convinced

Originally posted by Mr Master
Hey let's LEAVE OUT the FACT that Beyonder was WEAK enough for even RACHEL to KILL him when he said this.

Because he had GIVEN Rachel enough power that even SHE would be able to kill him.

And yet,

ALL the Crystal could do is Re-create his state of primal unbeing...what he was Originally, a Universe.

This actually makes the Crystal seem weak.

Than imagine how weak are LT and other abstracts who couldn't do even that.

Rachel said, after he gave her enough power and than she said, was my mother feeling the same way, when she became Phoenix.

Does that mean that Jean as the most powerful, could alone destroy Beyonder to his state.

As all I can see, P-R Beyodner had Phoenix in higher league than other abstracts and such as LT.

quit it people. GS {and to a much lesser extent xplosive} have been going around with this sad ignorant routine for years now, ull get NOWHERE with gs, the guy is hopeless.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
quit it people. GS {and to a much lesser extent xplosive} have been going around with this sad ignorant routine for years now, ull get NOWHERE with gs, the guy is hopeless.

You know what, I will wait for the War Song, to see what will they do with Phoenix and hope to get some clear thoughts after it.

Like Multi-Death, who also was NOT ABSORBED by THOU.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
That was not Multi-versal death, it was Ultra-versal Death -- the Ultra-verse is the entrie MU: Multi-verse and some other dimention´s beyond it which isnt really a part of the MU: Mutli-verse.
Not even TOAA would be able to take her out.
-- She wouldent be able to take TOAA out though.

Where did you get that from?

Originally posted by Xplosive
You know what, I will wait for the War Song, to see what will they do with Phoenix and hope to get some clear thoughts after it.

Is Jean going to make an appearance longer then two panels though? I hear they're focusing on the Cuckoos.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Is Jean going to make an appearance longer then two panels though? I hear they're focusing on the Cuckoos.

I really don't know.

Originally posted by Xplosive
That is not close in league of Phoenix holding 616 Universe.

That was a pocket Universe, Beyonder pocket dimension, nothing to 616 Universe.

X. I been respectful towards you through our debates.

But are you honestly such a fanboy that your going to CHANGE the words in a SCAN I posted?

Please tell me you didn't read the scan before you get BUMPED for life.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...This is the journey, Dr Doom, Johnny Storm, Ben Grimm(Thing), Shery(She-Thing)

Through UNIVERSES!

"that is why we have come to this UNIVERSE to find him"
"His power exploded into a New UNIVERSE"

Let's go Universe hunting.

What do we have here:
"a lightless UNIVERSE!....You SEE? Now we shift to a SECOND one!"

"we're right on the edge of ALL REALITIES"

'before us lies our Final UNIVERSE"

Torch thinks they just landed in "Our UNIVERSE"...Doom let's him know to the contrary..."Beyonder hear me"

"Good lord he's the sun"

"NOT JUST the sun, johnny. Beyonder is EVERYTHING in this UNIVERSE"

Convinced now?

Originally posted by Xplosive
And like I said, Pheonix manipulating Universe atom by atom is far more impressive than destroying the Universe.

X....Kubik MANIPULATED that UNIVERSE too.

He WARPED it from a UNIVERSE to a sphere the size of his hand in an instant.

What do you think manipulation is?
Kubik just did it INSTANTLY, he didn't have to concentrate on some ol' atom by atom crap.

He willed the UNIVERSE into a ball the size of his hand and it was so.

Simple effective no?

And...without bringing any harm to the Beyonder...because immediately after Beyonder took humanoid form and was ok.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Than imagine how weak are LT and other abstracts who couldn't do even that.

I don't know what your talking about.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Rachel said, after he gave her enough power and than she said, was my mother feeling the same way, when she became Phoenix.

Does that mean that Jean as the most powerful, could alone destroy Beyonder to his state.

What?

How do you conjure such logic?

From this:
"as she WONDERS IF this is how her mother felt...when she became Phoenix"

To this:
"Does that mean that Jean as the most powerful, could alone destroy Beyonder to his state" hum

What the HECK does Rachel KNOW about being the Phoenix Force?
Or HOW Jean FELT when becoming the PF?

you messing with me X?

Originally posted by Xplosive
As all I can see, P-R Beyodner had Phoenix in higher league than other abstracts and such as LT.

Everyone has a right to an opinion.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
So now your trying to take the high road?

Fallacy? All you've presented is opinions and lies. Like I said, your too thick headed to admit anything kid. You prance about someone when it suits you, but when it comes to you it try to act all rightous and never acknowledge your lies.

A feat anyone with a time machine and Xavier's powers can do. 🙄 Changing someone's mind in the past to change future outcome. 🙄 WOW!!! BIGGEST FEETS EVEZ.

wwk handlin buisiness... 😮‍💨

I think homie better runforhills after this one.

Originally posted by Mr Master
wwk handlin buisiness... 😮‍💨

I think homie better runforhills after this one.

😂

😉 Can't do it without you.

Originally posted by Mr Master
X. I been respectful towards you through our debates.
Convinced now?

As I have been to you to.

Like, I said, I don't know what to think anymore. Believe me that I am not such a fan of Phoenix, you can call me a fanboy of Apocalypse, but I am not close a fanboy of Phoenix, although Phoenix is cool to me, and of course the best out of all major cosmic powers, because of human emotions.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't know what your talking about.

You said that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
ALL the Crystal could do is Re-create his state of primal unbeing...what he was Originally, a Universe.

This actually makes the Crystal seem weak.

He still thought of Crystal to be such power to return him to his state of primal. He thought of Crystal in high regard, which he never showed for LT or other abstracts.

You that said, that actully makes the Crystal seem weak, than imagine how weak are LT and other abstract, when they wouldn't even be able to do that to P-R Beyonder.
So Beyonder as it seems had Crystal in higher regard of power level than LT and other abstracts.

Originally posted by Xplosive
As I have been to you to.

Like, I said, I don't know what to think anymore.

The rest of what you said was honest and cool.

But from the scans I presented you concerning(Kubik manipulating a Universe from it's entirety to a sphere the size of his hand)would you concede that it was a Universe...Not a "pocket universe"?

I posted 10 scans depicting Post-retcon Beyonder as an Entire Universe, you saw them...Now I need to know what you think after the fact.

Originally posted by Xplosive
He still thought of Crystal to be such power to return him to his state of primal. He thought of Crystal in high regard, which he never showed for LT or other abstracts.

I see what you mean...anyone would think that if they didn't know the issue completely.

He never thought the Crystal should be held in "high regard".

I told you this and posted the scan before.
I'll do it again.

The ONLY reason the Crystal was going to be able to "recreate his state of primal unbeing" after destroying the Universe, is because Beyonder was SO weak at this point after giving Rachel Summers(Phoenix Avatar)enough of his POWER that even SHE would be able to kill him.

"you may slay me, I herewith grant you SUFFICIENT POWER to do so"

Don't skip it, read and be convinced.

Originally posted by Xplosive
You that said, that actully makes the Crystal seem weak, than imagine how weak are LT and other abstract, when they wouldn't even be able to do that to P-R Beyonder.
So Beyonder as it seems had Crystal in higher regard of power level than LT and other abstracts.

Well like I said never in any of those issues does Beyonder pay homage to the Mkraan Crystal.

After Obliterating the Universe the Crystal would "merely recreate your state of primal unbeing"(which is the Universe he was to begin with)no harm at all.

And you now know why, because I just showed you above.

"I require the RETURN of what is rightfully mine"

That's his power he's talking about that he gave to Rachel Summers.

If he had his full power he could of blinked the Crystal out of existence.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The rest of what you said was honest and cool.

But from the scans I presented you concerning(Kubik manipulating a Universe from it's entirety to a sphere the size of his hand)would you concede that it was a Universe...Not a "pocket universe"?

I posted 10 scans depicting Post-retcon Beyonder as an Entire Universe, you saw them...Now I need to know what you think after the fact.

I see what you mean...anyone would think that if they didn't know the issue completely.

He never thought the Crystal should be held in "high regard".

I told you this and posted the scan before.
I'll do it again.

The ONLY reason the Crystal was going to be able to "recreate his state of primal unbeing" after destroying the Universe, is because Beyonder was SO weak at this point after giving Rachel Summers(Phoenix Avatar)enough of his POWER that even SHE would be able to kill him.

"you may slay me, I herewith grant you SUFFICIENT POWER to do so"

Don't skip it, read and be convinced.

Well like I said never in any of those issues does Beyonder pay homage to the Mkraan Crystal.

After Obliterating the Universe the Crystal would "merely recreate your state of primal unbeing"(which is the Universe he was to begin with)no harm at all.

And you now know why, because I just showed you above.

"I require the RETURN of what is rightfully mine"

That's his power he's talking about that he gave to Rachel Summers.

If he had his full power he could of blinked the Crystal out of existence.

Well, there is no doubt that P-R Beyonder was the most powerful out of all, even to this day, except TOAA.

Yes, I know about scans, I read them. I know he gave enough power to Rachel and he wanted Crystal to destroy his body, to return him to his previous state.
He wanted Rachel to destroy the Crystal and the Crystal would do the rest.

He still thought that Crystal alone had enough power to do that, although you said because he wouldn't be at full power, which is claer, because he gave some of his power to Rachel.

Well, I have no doubt that he could of blinked Crystal out of existence.