Originally posted by Mr Master
Uhh Absolutely.Quite simple in fact, you can fix a universe, I can fix a universe.
Only I'm FAR LESS powerful than you.
"the scale of the problem that needed to be fixed was different"
And?
How much more serious can it get than this:
This was the ONLY way to save REALITY.
What awful logic. You really are just highlighting your shortcomings as a debater my friend. Their actions both resulted in the fixing of a universe therefore the feats are equal?
It’s like equating me getting a car running just by filling up its empty tank and someone else achieving the same thing by having to change the engine and the tyres. Its like equating me to an Olympic level athlete because while I cant run the 100 metres event in 9 seconds I can finish the event therefore my performance equals theirs.
Another thing you conveniently neglected to mention is that the act of reviving Eternity itself wasn’t what Galactus meant would save reality. It was the restoration of Eternity so that he could speak to the Living Tribunal in order to get the Infinity Gauntlet operational again.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21617134476.jpg&s=f10
Dont you ever have the audacity to accuse me of intentionally misrepresenting scans again.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Now your just trying.Galactus and Gamora OPERATED on ETERNITY, they didn't just revive his "reflection"(oh brother it has started) 😆
"I shall be the Surgeon, you the Scappel"
"reflection" my nuts..LT say's Eternity(single universe)is All there is
Eternity(single universe)say's he's All that is to Doctor Strange
Eternity(single universe)is Supreme of each of his realities
This Aspect sure does get around.
Eternity is a representation of a universe. He embodies all there is along the temporal axis. He came into being AFTER the universe was born.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21616344965.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/19916185890.jpg&s=f10
Or as Eternity puts it, he’s an aspect of all there is:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21616484041.jpg&s=f10
So while Gamora merely went into Eternitys being to break the mindlock Magus had erected to make Eternity catatonic, Phoenix dealt with the actual universe itself, she manipulated on an atomic level the 616 universe itself, that which Eternity is merely a representation of.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Whatever.NOT on panel.
When you show it to me DRAWN...then I'll agree.
Phoenix has saved the multiverse from the threat of the M’kraan crystal twice. That point is not debatable.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Dude why you have to LIE like that?He was a UNIVERSE...I just posted the scan and your going to REPOST my scan and tell me it's a pocket universe..
F YOU, you phony.
The Post retcon Beyonder was a POCKET universe. That is a universe which is smaller in scale than a standard universe such as 616. Post retcon Beyonder was half a cosmic cube, even a full cosmic cube is below the likes of Eternity and the Celestials and as such any universe his power can create is conclusively not going to be as grand as a universe such as 616.
Half a cosmic cube, less powerful than the likes of Eternity:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21510265278.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21510290081.jpg&s=f10
A full cubes power is nothing compared to the Celestials even:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21510453284.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21510471335.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21511005613.jpg&s=f10
With all that in mind Kubik holding Beyonders POCKET universe is nothing compared to Phoenix manipulating the 616 universe in the palm of her hand. It was a smaller universe, achieved by a much smaller power therefore it was a smaller feat. No worries, son you gave it a go. I applaud your efforts.
Originally posted by Mr MasterLIE.
Show us.
Show us all, on panel where it says this.
"the crystal has been shown destroying the multiverse"
NO BIOS! In a COMIC ISSUE!
No..that's your job.
It is stated that once the crystals power is unleashed then it will wipe out the multiverse:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/20910302228.jpg&s=f10
At the end of X-men Adventures 12 the crystal is broken beyond repair and its power is unleashed:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21617375893.jpg&s=f10
The Tribunal along with the Spectre both employed the two Brothers to be guardians of the new realities that were to be initiated after the crystal process had come to an end:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21617512723.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21617425966.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21617542237.jpg&s=f10
Youre right about Beyonder saying that the crystal could end his physical existence after he’d given Rachel some power. However what you don’t know is whether he gave Rachel power so that the crystal could affect him, or whether it was so that she could actually unleash the crystals power. Therefore youre unjustified in trying to make out that the crystal wouldn’t be able to affect him had he not given Rachel power.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Even your nausiating bios say the same thing.several links where the Ultimat Nullifier was acknowledged as having REMADE the Multi-verse during the Abraxas arc.
In the Galactus bio: at marveldatabase
http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/index.php/Galactus
(Right above CHARACTERISTICS)
Galactus easily wrenched the Nullifer from Abraxas, giving it to Mister Fantastic, who used the weapon to destroy the multiverse. The result served to re-create the multiverse in which Abraxas never existed, and since all that was had ended, all that is was realigned.In Abraxas bio: at marveldatabase
http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/index.php/Abraxas
(last sentence in his ORIGIN)
Galactus was eventually reconstituted by Franklin Richards who completely burned out his powers in the process. Reed Richards then used the Ultimate Nullifer to destroy the multiverse, and remake one in which Abraxas never existed.In Galactus bio at wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus
(last sentence in TEMPORARY DEATH)
Galactus easily reclaimed the Ultimate Nullifier from Abraxas and Reed Richards used it to remake the multiverse into one in which Abraxas never escaped.
The difference is that i only acknowledge official bios, not ones off fansites. As long as they are in accordance with whats actually featured on panel then bios are a completely acceptable reference to use in debate. Please understand that. 🙂
Your FANSITE bios do all state the same thing, however the official one does NOT. On top of that the scene can quite easily be interpreted the way i and others have, therefore you cant present your different opinion on the matter as fact.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Whose looking for a comic book science. I'm looking for why the Force needed to control atoms of the universe? I don't care how it's done, but why since you've been claiming that she performed such a feat according to the scan. If there was than why? What purpose is there?
You know why she did it. It was in an effort to fix the universe. You dont need to know why she she went through the processes she did. Not knowing why she manipulated the universe at an tomic level doesnt change the fact that she did it.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
So what was she performing if she did such a thing? And why? Was it just a need to show off? 🙄 A future was destroyed, fix an event in the past and grow a new future. That's all that's needed and that's what she did.
You know what she did and you know why she did it. It was in an effort to fix the universe. Just to reiterate thats all you need to know. How can you say thats all that was needed? You dont know that. Are you an expert in comic book science? The universes timeline was severed. We're told that. How do you know that Phoenixes manipulation of those atoms wasnt addressing that issue so that she could go on to simply change the event in the past? Either way she did it and thats basically that! 😄
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
From what your saying, her highest feat, and one that even the Conscious of the Force claims is "not easy," is forming the universe in her hands. Big freaken deal. All she did was forming the universe in her hands by "controlling all those atoms."This feat was said to be above to the Infinity Gauntlet merging two universes. 😂
I never said that was her highest feat, thats what MrMaster keeps saying i said after his flopped attempt at downgrading the M'kraan crystal. The crystal feat is her highest, the manipulation of the universe in the palm of her hand is just another high level one. The Consciousness never said the feat wasnt easy for Jean. The feat said it wasnt as easy as it looks. Theres a difference. Please acknowledge that. Phoenix then pulled off the feat without any discernible strain and it was done in seconds. Thats all that matters. 🙂
On top of that Magus never actually performed the feat. He said he could and was about to try but the heroes intervention prevented his plans from being realized. That is, if they could. But I guess we’ll never know my young friend. With that in mind would you be so kind as to refrain from mentioning this plan as if it was an actual feat. Thank you.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingMore nonesense from you I see. Her biggest feat was forming the existing universe in her hands.
A feat anyone with a time machine and Xavier's powers can do. 🙄 Changing someone's mind in the past to change future outcome. 🙄 WOW!!! BIGGEST FEETS EVEZ.
Not her biggest feat. Just one of them. Manipulating the entire universe at an atomic level within the palm of your hand is one of the greatest feats in comics, its considerably greater than a non realised idea for a feat. 😂
Youre in no position to say that the feat could have been achieved merely through time travel. The conditions were illustrated in the beginning. The timeline was severed, the universe was separated from the rest of the multiverse as stated therefore you have no basis for that comment. For all we know, with those conditions in mind it wouldnt have been possible. As i said nefore perhaps that swhy she had to manipulate the universe at an atomic level. Who knows? Either way she did it!!
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingI see. Because you've read the revelant materials we should all believe your not b.s.ing the rest of us? Does it sound like I care for some fanboy whose read all the revelant material but b.s. everyone about events in the story to better their pet character? 🤣
All you've presented is NOTHING but YOUR OPINIONS regarding the Phoenix's place being above other cosmics.
The irony is that every time I pick up an issue where certain Phoenix feats you claim as the highest EVER, there's a grin on my face when I find those feats and claims overly exagerated or never happened. What credibility do you really have kid when what I've seen is a biased fanboy opinions presented as facts.
I do look forward to another lecture and more hypocracy. It just lights me up with amusement at the nonesense you try to present as a high road.
Because ive read all the relevant material and you havent it means you should rectify that situation before splurting sheer ignorance from your back hole. shit
You present yourself as knowledgeable yet over the course of the thread your replies have less and less to do with the topic and more to do with your personal issues with myself. Im thinking it has something to do with the gradual annihilation of all your points presented to myself. Whats the matter son? Running on empty? 😂
What i find thoroughly amusing is while you claim my accounts are biased, that i have nothing to give but opinion not only have you never been able to present a single scan stating that my ideas are not the case, but ive presented a multitude of scans from a variety of sources actually stating the points. You’ve countered not with scans stating a contrary point, but with irrelevance and opinion. Funny that one 😖hifty:
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
You shown scans here and there that refer to the 616. I've yet to see one for another universe.What your saying is not true. Those references refer to the present universe, which is the result of an unknown number of cycles. Those cycles of the universe dying and coming into being had to have a beginning.
Again your highlighting the limited extent of your comic book reading. Ive presented scans from X-men the end and the Ultimate Universe in addition to ones from 616, all of them giving Phoenix the same role.
Yes they do have to have a beginning and that obviously comes from Marvels supreme being. Whats your point? All within Marvel comes from it.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
What's your point? It's not like the PF created the multiverse. Point to a reference from the handbooks refering to such a thing if that's what you're saying.
Phoenix duties extend to the multiversal and it has been shown in a variety of different reality with same role. That of the initiator and destroyer of reality under the natural scheme of things.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
🙄So she created such concepts? The VERY FIRST UNIVERSE EVER!?! THE MULTIVERSE AT IT'S VERY BEGINNING?
I'll try to clarify, did she create such concepts as judge, jury, and executioner? The very things the Living Tribunal represents? You see what I'm getting at? Power!!! Her powers? Where does that come from?
T O A A
Who has denied the supreme beings part in creation? Not me so the above basically equates to spam. Unnecessary and most definitely unwanted. 😮
Phoenix manifests as the Big Bang which sparks off reality. Who knows about the origins of the very first universe and to be honest why do we need to know. Doesnt change Phoenixes role. The abstracts are just reflections of the reality Phoenixes power spawns. The fact that she can hold the entire universe in the palm of her hand, the universe they are merely aspects of, should tell anyone with any common sense that shes more than just a part of a universal level cycle and obviously greater than them. While she is a part of the cycle her duties extend beyond any one universe.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
The intiator of the big bang from existing universe's death. Merely a part of the cycles of a universe and plays a role like every other cosmics. It's the not creator but just a cosmic that's job equivilant to restarting the universe.
Phoenixes power is that which spawns a reality, therefore she is a realitys creator. Thats the crux of the matter. The point is stated on panel and as such mere opinion to the contrary is irrelevant. By your logic its like me drawing a picture and then my mum saying shes responsible for that pic because all that is me originally stems from her 🤨 While Phoenix originated from the supreme being its job from that point onwards has been to spark off and snuff out realities as part of an endless cycle. Phoenixes origins dont change the task she performs every creation cycle.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
That makes a lot more sense, forming the universe in the palm of her hand was what the Phoenix conscience was talking about. And the changing of one event in the past would fix the amputated timeline because the amputation would have never taken place in the first place.It's simple and yet so clear now.
Good job.
She did form the universe in her hands thats the exact same thing i said, which he had previously denied, trying to make out nothing happened but Jean changing Scotts reactions, despite the Phoenixes comments and the depiction.
The crux of the matter is that Phoenix demonstrated control at the atomic level of an entire universe in the palm of her hand. Thats the feat.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The rest of what you said was honest and cool.But from the scans I presented you concerning(Kubik manipulating a Universe from it's entirety to a sphere the size of his hand)would you concede that it was a Universe...Not a "pocket universe"?
I posted 10 scans depicting Post-retcon Beyonder as an Entire Universe, you saw them...Now I need to know what you think after the fact.
The universe was of a smaller scale than the likes of standard universes like 616. It was a universe brought about by a power deemed insignificant by the likes of even the Celestials. With that in mind theres no way the universe his power manifested was on the same scale, contained a comparative amount of matter and energy in it as the one Eternity embodies. Pocket universe? ✅
Originally posted by Mr Master
I see what you mean...anyone would think that if they didn't know the issue completely.He never thought the Crystal should be held in "high regard".
I told you this and posted the scan before.
I'll do it again.The ONLY reason the Crystal was going to be able to "recreate his state of primal unbeing" after destroying the Universe, is because Beyonder was SO weak at this point after giving Rachel Summers(Phoenix Avatar)enough of his POWER that even SHE would be able to kill him.
"you may slay me, I herewith grant you SUFFICIENT POWER to do so"Don't skip it, read and be convinced.
Well like I said never in any of those issues does Beyonder pay homage to the Mkraan Crystal.
After Obliterating the Universe the Crystal would "merely recreate your state of primal unbeing"(which is the Universe he was to begin with)no harm at all.
And you now know why, because I just showed you above.
"I require the RETURN of what is rightfully mine"That's his power he's talking about that he gave to Rachel Summers.
If he had his full power he could of blinked the Crystal out of existence.
All of this is speculation and unsupported opinion. You have no justification to say that the crystal only could have affected him because he gave some power to Rachel. Especially given the higher on panel feats the crystal has over the Beyonder. For all we know Beyonder gave Rachel power so that she'd be stron enough to unleash the crystals power and not as youve claimed so that he would be weak enough for the crystal to harm him.
You have no support to say that the crystal could just be blinked out by him. Well actually given that its an inanimate object who knows? It just means that he'd get effed up in the ensuing conflagration when all reality comes tumbling down. 😮💨
Originally posted by leonheartmm
^poor GS. at it again.{smileys still workin for ya?}
Says the rodent who follows me around threads lapping the sacs of any and all who disagree with me. 😂
Leon please understand that you really arent good enough, hence your annihilation in all of our previous encounters. 🙂
Originally posted by leonheartmm
{the amount of outright bullshit in GS's post really is ridiculously hillarious."For all we know Beyonder gave Rachel power so that she'd be stron enough to unleash the crystals power and not as youve claimed"
an all time low GS. ur arguments are beyond pathetic.
Why is it BS my friend? I love how you constantly search out threads that you see im participating in and your only contribution is to tell me how sh*t you think my arguments are. 🙄
Would care to step in and exaplain yourself for once, or is this yet another biased load coming from the hole of one of my past casualties? 😮
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
She did form the universe in her hands thats the exact same thing i said, which he had previously denied, trying to make out nothing happened but Jean changing Scotts reactions, despite the Phoenixes comments and the depiction.The crux of the matter is that Phoenix demonstrated control at the atomic level of an entire universe in the palm of her hand. Thats the feat.
Really...sorry then...
