The End of the Jedi Order & the Fall of The Republic is Mace Windu's Fault!

He didn't let Anakin fulfill the prophesy.

Anakin: I must go with you

Mace: No! Stay here. I sense much confusion in you Skywalker. If what you say is true, then you will have gained my trust.

Mace disrupted the prophesy and so she pulled the rug right out from under Mace, The Jedi Order and the Republic's feet.

Mace tempted fate, and it cost everyone everything, to the point where fate had to rea

to the point that fate had to start all over and involve his son.

True, but I think Mace believed that what he was doing was right. He sensed that there was much confusion in Anakin, and that his relationship with Palpatine could lead him into making a poor decision.

Even if Anakin had went with Mace, he still probably would have bought into Palpatine's seduction.

you have a point, but an inconsequential one. anakin would have never killed palpatine, because he was already seduced by the darkside. it still would have ended up with anakin as a sith because he was already seduced by talks of saving his wife.

:edit: shit...didnt realise smx got it

Originally posted by Sith Master X
True, but I think Mace believed that what he was doing was right. He sensed that there was much confusion in Anakin, and that his relationship with Palpatine could lead him into making a poor decision.

Even if Anakin had went with Mace, he still probably would have bought into Palpatine's seduction.

Agreed. Although Mace did play a part in the downfall, but that was because he took such SHIT Jedi to confront Palpatine. xD

Mace HAD Palpatine beaten, but Anakin walked in and cut off Mace's hand.

When I took my 12-year-old niece to see Revenge of the Sith, she said "Mace Windu was too mean to Anakin."

I kind of chuckled, but hey she might have a point.

As long as we're Monday-morning-quarterbacking, if I were Mace, I would have asked Anakin in the hanger, "What's troubling you, young Skywalker?"

Then Mace shoulda called a message to every single Jedi warning of Palpatine. Then he should have called a Senator and asked for a special session of the Senate to inform the galaxy.

Mace was skeptical and was one of the most powerful council members, you could probably accuse him of a bit of arrogance but that doesn't matter.
But to blame him for the fall of the jedi order.. As if everything depends on him or something. He might have come across as a sort of representative of the jedi order but he is just one of them, not the top boss or something.
Who the hell cares, these blame game threads are so pointless..

But that's not what I'm talking about. Mace messed around with and disrupted the prophesy (or time continuum). Anakin would'nt of have fell, fate would've saw to that, even though it may've seemed like Anakin would've gave in but he wouldn't of. Hell Anakin was bleeding to kill Palpatine right then and there at his office even after Palps tried to convince him, but he did it the Jedi way and reported him.

Mace pissed fate off. And because of that, because of him, everyone involved paid the price. Simple as that.

the prophesy was already disrupted from the time palpatine met anakin as a child.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
But that's not what I'm talking about. Mace messed around with and disrupted the prophesy (or time continuum). Anakin would'nt of have fell, fate would've saw to that, even though it may've seemed like Anakin would've gave in but he wouldn't of. Hell Anakin was bleeding to kill Palpatine right then and there at his office even after Palps tried to convince him, but he did it the Jedi way and reported him.

Mace pissed fate off. And because of that, because of him, everyone involved paid the price. Simple as that.

We simply don't know that Anakin would not have fallen if he had joined Mace to arrest the chancellor.

(Next time you watch the revelation scene, watch Palpatine's hands as he and Anakin circle each other. [Why does everybody circle each other in ROTS?] Palpatine's hands are twitching... he's half-ready to ignite his own lightsaber against Anakin, but he doesn't.)

Mace did not anger fate or the force or whatever you call it. There is no proof. All we know of the prophesy is what was said on screen, and it is not so clear as to say Mace messed it up.

Originally posted by chinabing
I don't know about your point. The prophesy does not run on a timeline or continuum. We don't know that Mace disrupted anything.

We simply don't know that Anakin would not have fallen if he had joined Mace to arrest the chancellor.

(Next time you watch the revelation scene, watch Palpatine's hands as he and Anakin circle each other. [Why does everybody circle each other in ROTS?] Palpatine's hands are twitching... he's half-ready to ignite his own lightsaber against Anakin, but he doesn't.)

Mace did not anger fate or the force or whatever you call it. There is no proof. All we know of the prophesy is what was said on screen, and it is not so clear as to say Mace messed it up.

Well we know Anakin's previous reaction to Palpatine's revelation when Palpatine said:

Palpatine: You want to kill me, don't you.

Anakin: (pissed) I would certainly like to!

I think if Anakin didn't tell anyone in the Order, returning without Mace, deciding to be the hero and kill Palpatine and fulfill the prophesy, everything would've been fine. Mace would've been upset momentarily but he would've realized that Anakin was the chosen one. and praise Anakin later on.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
He didn't let Anakin fulfill the prophesy.

Anakin: I must go with you

Mace: No! Stay here. I sense much confusion in you Skywalker. If what you say is true, then you will have gained my trust.

Mace disrupted the prophesy and so she pulled the rug right out from under Mace, The Jedi Order and the Republic's feet.

Mace tempted fate, and it cost everyone everything, to the point where fate had to rea

that's not true...Anakin did fulfill the prophescy..only 20 years later as Darth Vader when he sacrificed his own life and killed the Emperor to save his son...
Mace only did what he thought was best...he sensed the turmoil in Anakins feelings and he knew that he would pose a problem when he was about to deal with Palpatine...and as we all know he was right...

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Well we know Anakin's previous reaction to Palpatine's revelation when Palpatine said:

Palpatine: You want to kill me, don't you.

Anakin: (pissed) I would certainly like to!

I think if Anakin didn't tell anyone in the Order, returning without Mace, deciding to be the hero and kill Palpatine and fulfill the prophesy, everything would've been fine. Mace would've been upset momentarily but he would've realized that Anakin was the chosen one. and praise Anakin later on.

you still dont get it.
anakin was not going to kill palpatine anyway.
he wanted him alive to find out how to stop padme from dying.
this is made painfully clear by showing his complete hatred for him,
but refusal to strike him down.

Either way Anakin became Vader, but also fulfilled the prophecy.

The only person at fault here is Palpatine so don't place the blame on anyone but him.

There were several reasons why Mace didn't allow Anakin to come along, all of them valid.

1. Mace knew about Anakin's feelings about Palpatine; Palpatine was like a second Master, or like his father. Mace never intended to "arrest" Palpatine, but instead kill him. He knew that Anakin would try to prevent this.
2. In Shatterpoint, Mace said in one of his journal entries that if Anakin was the Chosen One, then as long as he was alive there was hope for the Jedi, and that every Jedi would sacrafice his or her life in order to protect the Order. He didn't want to run the risk of loosing Anakin, as Sith don't feel attachments. Even if Anakin was killed, Palpatine would have executed Order 66, and send the 501st Legion to destroy the Jedi Temple.
3. Mace knew about Anakin's raging emotions, and something like choosing between the Jedi and the man was like his father could easily push him to the Dark Side, as could be seen in ROTS. He knew how powerful Anakin already was, and with the Dark Side, few Jedi, if any (according to Mace's thinking) would be able to stop him.
4. Mace probably would have taken the minimum number of Jedi Masters nessecary to take down the Sith. He would have wanted to keep as many Jedi as possible in the Temple in case he and the Masters were killed.

maybe if anakin died Palpy'd get his son *luke* and take him as his apprentice...

guess... and i don't think its good at all...

Holy frickin crap

Okay firstly, let me please explain what balance means

That means all things equal, in harmony. Nothing stronger or more overpowering than anything else.

So when you take something like... say... the Force, and you say that its going to be 'balanced' one would say that it must be influenced, wielded, observed, whatever by equally dark and light forces. Which means, in turn... that if there are a buncha hecka jedi in the galaxy, and only 2 sith... well thats not balanced at all.

What no one here seems to realize is that the Jedi, in their infinite arrogance and false wisdom, misinterpreted the prophecy, or at least its meaning. Anakin Skywalker did bring balance to the Force. At the end of RotS, how many sith were there? And how many Jedi were there? Hmm... lemme think... 2!

Obi-wan and Yoda

Darth Vader and Palpatine

Balanced. Balanced. End of discussion. What you gotta realize is that Mace Windu neither messed up nor affirmed Anakin's destiny. He was just there. Had Mace not done anything, Anakin still would have brought balance to the Force. So its no one's fault, its destiny.

I would have thought more people would have realized this... I mean, in RotS, Yoda even says, "A prophecy misread, could have been."

How much more obvious do you need it?

I'd say Anakin did bring balance to the Force. By the end of RotS, there were two powerfull Jedi (Obi-Wan and Yoda) and two powerfull Sith (Palpatine and Vader) with a handfull of Force users on either side under them. That is balance. Balance doesn't mean Good beating Evil, because that is not balance. Balance is Good and Evil existing in equal amounts.

Originally posted by Caden_Amor
Holy frickin crap

Okay firstly, let me please explain what balance means

That means all things equal, in harmony. Nothing stronger or more overpowering than anything else.

So when you take something like... say... the Force, and you say that its going to be 'balanced' one would say that it must be influenced, wielded, observed, whatever by equally dark and light forces. Which means, in turn... that if there are a buncha hecka jedi in the galaxy, and only 2 sith... well thats not balanced at all.

What no one here seems to realize is that the Jedi, in their infinite arrogance and false wisdom, misinterpreted the prophecy, or at least its meaning. Anakin Skywalker did bring balance to the Force. At the end of RotS, how many sith were there? And how many Jedi were there? Hmm... lemme think... 2!

Obi-wan and Yoda

Darth Vader and Palpatine

Balanced. Balanced. End of discussion. What you gotta realize is that Mace Windu neither messed up nor affirmed Anakin's destiny. He was just there. Had Mace not done anything, Anakin still would have brought balance to the Force. So its no one's fault, its destiny.

I would have thought more people would have realized this... I mean, in RotS, Yoda even says, "A prophecy misread, could have been."

How much more obvious do you need it?

not again. george lucas already confirmed that the above concept of balance meaning 2-jedi and 2-sith is utter horseshit.