Originally posted by NineCoronasNo, you have it all wrong. You see, people that believe people don't choose their sexuality don't understand the meaning of sexual attraction, , are being stubborn, or are actually in camp band just don't know it.
😐
What is YOUR definition of sexual attraction then? Choose your words carefully.
I would also get a reliable source to back it up.
Originally posted by Draco69
Actually, that's largely what they do in "conversion" programs for "ex-gays." They've been doing it for the last 60 years with no success...at least not according to them. THEY say they have a 99% (why is always that number...?) success rate, but reliable sources like the American Psychiatric Association as well as the Harvard Medical School balk at these techniques and often quote that psychologically damages the homosexuals they try to "convert" through straight porn and lots of Hail Marys....yeah that doesn't make sense to me either.Most "ex-gays" who "successfully" complete the program off the bat say they are not gay anymore. However the median of coming to terms that they were frauded is about 4 months to a year depending on the intensity of the program.
In actuality, the program just taught them to repress and ignore their sexual desires as one would ignore the need to pee during the SATs....
Hmm. Didn't know that. Interesting. I don't care for Catholic methods of conversion/treatment/w/e/etc.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is being bisexual a sin?
Originally posted by Echuu
Ever read 1984 by George Orwell? I'll use that as an example. If you keep cramming ideas into your mind, no matter how far off from your beliefs, you can get it so engrained into you mind that it becomes 'reality.'I'm not prejudice by the way.
Brainwashing? By whom? When? How? Why? Proof? Source?
Your theory is unsubstantiated and falls into the realm of philosophy rather than something that can be proven.
Also it's rather enthnocentric, which is why I disagree when people say people chose to be gay because they wanted to be alternative or individualistic. Homosexuality is seen in all cultures, all countries and all races. If homosexuality is a conscious choice, what is the UNIVERSAL precedent for making that choice? In your case, what UNIVERSAL idea or reason for using the said idea to make oneself homosexual?
It can't be answered. Because what's right for ONE culture will fly in the face of another thus nullifying any theory that could possibly arise.
Here's an interesting test they did in Sweden:
Twelve men were selected under the pretense that they were to be involved in experiment to test one's heartrate when playing video games.
Six were straight. Six were gay.
They were all of course lied too. They had all sorts of fancy equipment hooked up to them to gauge their sexual arousal while they were playing Resident Evil and such.
For the six straight men, they injected female pheromones (i.e. sweat minus the foul odour; completely undetectable by humans except for their bodies nervous systems) into the room while they played the video games. Naturally, the scientists detected rising sexual arousal in correlation to the rising amount of female pheromones pumped into the room. For the male phermones, they had little to no reaction.
For the six gay men, they injected female pheromones (i.e. sweat minus the foul odour; completely undetectable by humans except for their bodies nervous systems) into the room while they played the video games. HOWEVER, they had little to no reaction to the phermones. When they added the male phermones, as you might of guessed, they witnessed ising sexual arousal in correlation to the rising amount of male pheromones pumped into the room.
Based on your "Orwell" theory, how would you explain this?
Originally posted by Echuu
Hmm. Didn't know that. Interesting. I don't care for Catholic methods of conversion/treatment/w/e/etc.
Actually it's not Catholic (although some are...), it's mostly Baptist, Protestant, Mormon and largely Evangelical method of conversion.
The Catholic Church has an official stance on homosexuality as it is. They recognize and admit that homosexuality cannot be chosen but remain antagonistic to the act of gay sex which they view as a sin. So for homosexuals to remain on the "good side" of God they have to be completely celibate. No kissing, no hugging, and no sex with members of your own gender.
Many gays appreciate the Catholic Church showing some progress of toleration against homosexuals...however they aren't thrilled with the idea of having the proverbial status of an eunuch with leprosy.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
😐
I never directly stated that. Others have though. Don't put words into my mouth.
Oh and you still haven't answered my question.
As for what Draco69 said; In reference to brainwashing I wanted to bring out more of the battle for the mind. Not necessarily brainwashing from a government body, but I thought it would be an example.
I'm trying to talk about what mainstream society is saying.
For example...a teen has had a few sexual thoughts about men in the last week. He doesn't normally think this way. He hears what the general opinion is on homosexuality and thinks "oh I must be gay because I was born that way." And so he goes on thinking this and becomes gay because he 'chose' to do so because he thought he was born that way.
I think a lot of people become gay just because they think they are born that way if they ever think about someone of the opposite sex.
Originally posted by EchuuI'm trying to talk about what mainstream society is saying. For example...a teen has had a few sexual thoughts about men in the last week. He doesn't normally think this way. He hears what the general opinion is on homosexuality and thinks "oh I must be gay because I was born that way." And so he goes on thinking this and becomes gay because he 'chose' to do so because he thought he was born that way.
I think a lot of people become gay just because they think they are born that way if they ever think about someone of the opposite sex.
You mean WESTERN mainstream society. Chinese culture believes that homosexuality is a frowned upon choice. Russia believe it's a fetish. Mexico considers it a griveous sin. Brazil outright believes it doesn't exist.
It's flawed reasoning.
Take Muslim society for example. In Egypt, outed gay men are stoned to death and are portrayed as "imperialist propaganda destroying their the foundations of their faith" In THEIR mainstream society, homosexuality is a GROSS sin and it is most certainly a choice in direct violation to the tenets set by Allah himself through Mohmmed.
Yet gay men exist in Muslim society. They KNOW they will likely get stoned to death. They KNOW they will suffer unimaginable pain from Allah in the afterlife. And they KNOW it is not a choice but a path towards sin and debauchery. Yet they're still gay.
Why? Your theory of "mainstream society" brainwashing teenagers into homosexuality clearly doesn't work in Muslim society. Indeed, it only applies to western, middle-class, white society in a liberal environment.
It fails to apply different races, cultures, religions and different countries.
Hell it doesn't work for the past also. Gay people existed in the past. Walt Whitman was gay. HIS society certainly didn't say "gays are born gay." Alexander the Great was gay. HIS society didn't say that either.
Your theory is flawed because it only attempts to explain the cause of homosexuality in western, liberal, white, middle-class, present, society in teenagers.
Originally posted by Echuu
Not really. I didn't say all gays are gay because of that.And even so, applying my theory to western culture only, do you think it makes sense?
No. Despite the fact that it fails to be universal to all races and cultures in America, it's flawed for another reason:
If mainstream society is 'brainswashing' teens into 'thinking' they are gay, we would have seen a substantial increase of gays in America. However since the 70s it's remained at a steady 5 to 10% of the population.
By your theory, if gays are becoming more mainstream we would see a correlation to gay population growth. And we haven't.
Also, you fail to implement the basis of sexual attractions. A teen does get bi-curious over the years due to budding sexuality and sexual orientation as a result of budding sexuality. However even if a teen does take a fancy at men once in while and his thoughts are primarily women, than he's going to think he's straight (he is..) Gay teens on the other hand have almost exclusive sexual thoughts of men.
It just doesn't work that way.
Originally posted by Draco69
No. Despite the fact that it fails to be universal to all races and cultures in America, it's flawed for another reason:If mainstream society is 'brainswashing' teens into 'thinking' they are gay, we would have seen a substantial increase of gays in America. However since the 70s it's remained at a steady 5 to 10% of the population.
By your theory, if gays are becoming more mainstream we would see a correlation to gay population growth. And we haven't.
Also, you fail to implement the basis of sexual attractions. A teen does get bi-curious over the years due to budding sexuality and sexual orientation as a result of budding sexuality. However even if a teen does take a fancy at men once in while and his thoughts are primarily women, than he's going to think he's straight (he is..) Gay teens on the other hand have almost exclusive sexual thoughts of men.
It just doesn't work that way.
Well whatever. I still never said brainwashing. Just a thought I had on the matter. Oh well.