Wolverine 43

there is something called a burden of proof, and it basically states that a lack of evidence to the contrary does not affirm something.

So, basically, because it isnt stated that wolverine isnt immortal, or because he hasn't been killed permanently, does not mean he is immortal.

The burden of proof lies in the idea that if you make a claim you must back it up with evidence that supports your specific claim.

Applied to Wolverine:

really simple, is he or is he not immortal. it is plainly obvious that EVERYONE here agrees that he is not immortal. Immortal means cannot die (it has nothing to do with old age, that is called eternal youth. immortality means litterally not mortal).

The argument you are making is that he HAS died, then come back. Thus, not immortal.

I also don't see much problem with the regeneration from death thing. Without going into a deep debate about the nature of the self and the "soul", if wolverine's cells have mutated to all be like stem cells and replicate + assign new roles to new cells, it works. In fact, its one of the few mutations that real world science would actually be able to support.

When the cognitive functions of the brain stop, the individual cells of the body still live on until they are deprived of nutrience, so while Wolverine may be dead, his cells are not, and they can repair any damage that caused the death + restart cognitive function.

HOWEVER, all that I have typed above is speculation, and is in no way supported by comic book evidence. I am mearly wondering why people think it is outlandish for wolverine to have this ability...

PS: In reference to the regeneration feat in no 43, it would NOT be possible given the circumstances hypothesised above. No organic matter would have survived heat intense enough to melt flesh from the bones. Any organic material contained inside the bones would turn to carbon ash from heat transfer through the METAL.

I'm more inclined to say it was the artist + new writer colaborating to make the story pack a bit of an extra punch, physics and biology be damned. It works, and im personally glad they did it (this was the first issue of wolverine i have EVER read btw) as it did make for a cooler plot, though I still think regeneration from 0 organic matter for wolverine should be looked at with skeptiscism, as I don't believe the evidence for THAT has been shown (though regen from some/any organic seems to be verifiable)

grow the **** up.

for all intents and purposes, this argument started because the "feat" in question defies the very definition of wolverine's powers. an "accelerated healing factor" is not a magic potion. it must still rely on the basic principles of cellular regeneration, which require the splitting of a cell into two identical cells, and a shitload of raw material to accomplish such a feat. in this instance, BOTH necessary components of that equation were absent. though it is possible a cell or so remained after the explosion, the point of the artistry and nitro's dialogue was to prove that nothing was left of logan but his adamantium skeleton. so, it's a safe assumption that there were no cells present to begin the regeneration cycle.

so, where could the new cells have come from? obviously, they need to be encoded with his genetic sequence in order to actually be capable of "healing." so, as capt it up suggested, perhaps they came from within the bones themselves. except, in order for that to be possible, adamantium would need to be porous enough to allow a cell from inside to travel out. and, based on the vast collection of information that is common knowledge of adamantium, that is impossible. so, we're left with only one possibility; that being a spare cell or two on the bones.

and, even if that were the case, where would the raw material to regenerate some 200+ pounds of skin, muscle, and the various other tissues come from? how would he have hair again, considering hair is essentially dead skin cells? if you mean to argue that a single cell, encrypted with the genetic equivalent of the "elixir of life," was capable of multiplying at such a rate without sufficient material to fuel it, you should take a biology class.

my main and only beef with these types of feats, and i'm sure it's the same beef shared by many comic readers, is that wolverine's powers defy their own definitions. in order for this feat to be possible, even remotely, his powers would have to be vastly redefined to account for the incredible abuse of the basic laws of cellular division, mitosis, and basic regeneration. would i, personally, be pissed off and/or offended if his powers were redefined to, as i've argued before, some form of genetic alchemy? **** yes, i would. but at least we, as readers, would know the writers and editors gave enough of a damn to stop insulting our collective intelligence with this nonsense.

to date, the only attempt at an explanation that i've seen was in the recap page of wolverine: origins issue 2; where it was said his healing factor was capable of performing miracles. and that, my friends, is bullshit. how many decades has wolverine been pulling this type of shit off, and we have to wait til 2006 for a half-assed explanation like that? any attempt to even cite that as evidence is bullshit in and of itself.

by the way, **** wolverine.

Originally posted by Disappear
grow the **** up.

excellent way to make people trying to have a serious conversation take you seriously

it also shows how grown up you are

Originally posted by Disappear
for all intents and purposes, this argument started because the "feat" in question defies the very definition of wolverine's powers. an "accelerated healing factor" is not a magic potion. it must still rely on the basic principles of cellular regeneration, which require the splitting of a cell into two identical cells, and a shitload of raw material to accomplish such a feat. in this instance, BOTH necessary components of that equation were absent. though it is possible a cell or so remained after the explosion, the point of the artistry and nitro's dialogue was to prove that nothing was left of logan but his adamantium skeleton. so, it's a safe assumption that there were no cells present to begin the regeneration cycle.

so, where could the new cells have come from? obviously, they need to be encoded with his genetic sequence in order to actually be capable of "healing." so, as capt it up suggested, perhaps they came from within the bones themselves. except, in order for that to be possible, adamantium would need to be porous enough to allow a cell from inside to travel out. and, based on the vast collection of information that is common knowledge of adamantium, that is impossible. so, we're left with only one possibility; that being a spare cell or two on the bones.

and, even if that were the case, where would the raw material to regenerate some 200+ pounds of skin, muscle, and the various other tissues come from? how would he have hair again, considering hair is essentially dead skin cells? if you mean to argue that a single cell, encrypted with the genetic equivalent of the "elixir of life," was capable of multiplying at such a rate without sufficient material to fuel it, you should take a biology class.

Yes, this particular instance is probably PIS given the new author, the fact that it is the middle of a HUGE company wide cross over, and isnt wolvie going to fight namor soon? maybe they are just giving him a little boost so it isnt as much of a blowout

I would also like you to find a powerset of any hero that accuratly follows the laws of science. Saying that a hero shouldn't be able to do something because it is impossible in the real world is redundant. Of course it cant be done in the real world, thats why we read it in comics.

and for the record, i dont think anyone is saying the nitro regen feat was not PIS

Originally posted by Disappear
my main and only beef with these types of feats, and i'm sure it's the same beef shared by many comic readers, is that wolverine's powers defy their own definitions. in order for this feat to be possible, even remotely, his powers would have to be vastly redefined to account for the incredible abuse of the basic laws of cellular division, mitosis, and basic regeneration. would i, personally, be pissed off and/or offended if his powers were redefined to, as i've argued before, some form of genetic alchemy? **** yes, i would. but at least we, as readers, would know the writers and editors gave enough of a damn to stop insulting our collective intelligence with this nonsense.

Your argument now is his powers arent achually his powers? In fact, I don't think there is a coherent version of WHAT wolverine's powers are or their limits, given the shadowy orgins of the character. The mystery about who or what he is has become an integral part of the character.

I also dont understand your reference to being offended. The powerset of a fictional character offends you? do you know what offended means? If this is serious you probably DO have issues in seperating fiction from reality as you have commited much to much of your psyche to involvement with a fictitious world and how you deem it must be run.

Originally posted by Disappear
to date, the only attempt at an explanation that i've seen was in the recap page of wolverine: origins issue 2; where it was said his healing factor was capable of performing miracles. and that, my friends, is bullshit. how many decades has wolverine been pulling this type of shit off, and we have to wait til 2006 for a half-assed explanation like that? any attempt to even cite that as evidence is bullshit in and of itself.

...
I dont think marvel has ever attempted to explain in detail how wolverine works. It would lose them lots of money. Sure, they could, but the fans LIKE the mystery.

They dont explain it for LITERARY purposes. It adds effect and depth to a character. The fact that you are upset by this shows that you dont understand art at all.

Originally posted by Disappear

by the way, **** wolverine.

Out of only my deep concern for your mental well being, please dont read anything else about wolverine. You obviously have devoted too much of your energy into the character in such a negative way that it appears to be causing you discomfort or harm.

Please remember that if you dont like something, you dont have to participate in it. If wolverine so obviously hated by you, why not do ANYTHING ELSE but read about him?

Originally posted by Soleran
Wolverine was made for this greatness, after all he was a Hulk villian to begin with!

Rhino was a Hulk villian too 😛

Originally posted by jinzin
seriously.. you wanna get owned some more rewmac? you know which thread to come to... 🙄

I agree on one thing Wolverine is tough I'm only saying this coz I like him, but overrating him is just not a good thing.

Originally posted by capt it up
your nto very knowledgable about wolverine are u?

wolverine adamatium does not stop wolverines nateral bone function such as cellure grother and so on.

U dont have to be an expert. Adamantium is impenetrable, so what r the chances that his celluler grother(what the hell is that anyways) penetrates the indestructible and unpenetrable metal. HAs it been stated anywhere that his cellular growth remains the same after been bonded with Adamantium?

I think both sides agree that this feat is crap, and Wolverine should not be portrayed like this because every fight he would be in would be pointless...? 😕

I'm a Wolvie fan and I thought that feat was riduculous. He's healed from "death" before but normally I'd attribute that to instaces in reality where your vitals cease function but they pick up after a while. A woman had absolutely no vital function for 15 minutes, pronounced dead and then all of a sudden came back. That is a true story. I'd attribute some of Wolverine's deaths to that. He's vitals are down but he's still repairing himself. What I find impossible to believe is that with no flesh on his bones he walks away. Crap

And I know I'm probably spitting in the wind here, but when Gorgon killed Wolvie in Enemy of the State he was dead for a while (at least a week) before he got revived. There is no proof that he would healed from that

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I think both sides agree that this feat is crap, and Wolverine should not be portrayed like this because every fight he would be in would be pointless...? 😕

Exactly.

Originally posted by marvelprince
I'm a Wolvie fan and I thought that feat was riduculous. He's healed from "death" before but normally I'd attribute that to instaces in reality where your vitals cease function but they pick up after a while. A woman had absolutely no vital function for 15 minutes, pronounced dead and then all of a sudden came back. That is a true story. I'd attribute some of Wolverine's deaths to that. He's vitals are down but he's still repairing himself. What I find impossible to believe is that with no flesh on his bones he walks away. Crap

And I know I'm probably spitting in the wind here, but when Gorgon killed Wolvie in Enemy of the State he was dead for a while (at least a week) before he got revived. There is no proof that he would healed from that

I agree.

Not to mention that this is a new writer. The purpose of this "feat" is being played out right here--this controversy. Now everybody's talking about the comic.

I'd hope that everybody can agree that this feat is completely wrong and/or PIS. There is no possible way that Wolverine could have regenerated from cells when all that was left was an Adamantium skeleton. Assuming that there still cells left in bone matter inside the metal (which there shouldn't be, for the heat would, as I understand it, transfer through the metal and burn any matter inside, as stated befor), they still should not be able to grow outside of the adamantium.

👆

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
U dont have to be an expert. Adamantium is impenetrable, so what r the chances that his celluler grother(what the hell is that anyways) penetrates the indestructible and unpenetrable metal. HAs it been stated anywhere that his cellular growth remains the same after been bonded with Adamantium?

And where is this stated?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And where is this stated?

stated in the ulitimate x-men guide graded addittion

It was also stated by both beast and Professor X

Can you post some scans of these facts please?

Originally posted by aton_ra
Can you post some scans of these facts please?

Originally posted by capt it up
stated in wolverine 2004 hand book.

stated in the ulitimate x-men guide graded addittion

It was also stated by both beast and Professor X

Yes let's listen to a outdated hand book .

Two words which (when put in comic contexts) are the same as putting Guinnes on art...

do you have any non handbook or guide exaples of this being explained

im looking for this issues now to get some scans up for you capt, handbooks and the like are harder to find than the actual books

Originally posted by grey fox
Yes let's listen to a outdated hand book .

Two words which (when put in comic contexts) are the same as putting Guinnes on art...

Handbooks only count for Stats, and only then when it applies to a specific discussion. Otherwise stats are crap comics are where it's at 🙄

Even if there were pores in the adamantium, all it could help would be making the bone inside them vaporize faster...the point still resides that there would be no cells left anywhere. And Wolverine hardly can heal from nothing. PIS feat. Seriously.