Namor and aquaman vs The Hulk

Started by Dalak7 pages

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Ummm...there are people who have shut people's brain off via tp, and Aquaman doesn't have TK, so your point doesn't work. Actually did you read the issue? he clearly stated he was attacking part of his brain Did you know Aquaman was bonded with "The Clear"? Aquaman also gave Jo'nn a telepathic push so he can disconnect from the Spectre's mind. Aquaman telepathically spoke to everyone in Poseidonis, and can telepathically listen to them aswell. Aquaman's TP is one of the best in the DCU. Aquaman doesn't destroy the brain he manipulates it, HUGE difference.

I never said Aquaman could go that way, but most were going at it in a agressive sense which Aquaman wouldn't be doing. Once again Aquaman literally could detack his water hand and get it to touch the Hulk and heal the radiation. Aquaman has shown to easily manipulate people's mind, hell through his telepathy Aquaman can see and know everything that any sealife has seen or known instantly.

You overestimate the Hulk far to much, even Dazzler just shining light on him calmed the Hulk back into Banner.

The information I have provided is sufficient enough to work here, he has cured mutations, has high end telepathy, cured mental diseases, all in a magical senses

Once is enough, I suggest you look at the Dr.Strange feat going against cosmic entities countless times and yet they can't hold the Hulk? come on.

Am I using any of Aquaman's loq-end feats against him? No because I've maintained that Low End feats don't count.

And theres a big difference between Autism and a truly 'Mental' disorder. Autism counts because it is a physical abnormality that affects the Mind, not like it's MPD, OCD, Schizophrenia and the like. SOmething that the mind develops on it's own, not because of a physiological reason.

Blanking a mind is different than trying to stimulate one specific chunk (One shared/inherited by Fish), and he even had trouble with Polaris thanks to his Multiple Personalities.

Also J'onn scanned all the people on the planet, which have more advanced minds that the bulk of all sealife, mindfragged those Martians even worse if I remember, and can shut off the Joker's Insanity for a while. Do you honestly think that he would beat J'onn in a battle of the minds?

BTW How many of his best TP has been used against Humans, and not hyper-evolved Sharks and other undersea people? And I wonder how many of those Mutated People he's reverted produced their own radiation in increasing amounts instead of just being affected by it? That or just how many and how hard it was.

I agree the team can win, and while I may be underestimating Aquaman I am not overestimating Hulk here. You seem to be underestimating teh green guy as well, as others have hense why I didn't leave earlier.

So while Aquaman can heal he can't heal a purely Mental disorder.

And Hulk's resistance to TP should hold off Aquaman for the duration of the fight. It's not like Bloodlusted Namor is going to hold back while Aquaman wrassles Hulk with his mind.

Of course at that point an Earthquake Stomp of Sonic Slam could distract him, hense why Hulk gets wins in.

Oh yes, can you give me a feat of something holding the Hulk successfully that's not been outclassed by what he can do? He's smashed/split Mountains, he's torn through energy fields of all shapes and sizes (Including Doom's which has taken blasts from the Beyonder), he's even smashed a planetoid 2x the size of Earth. It's within his powerset and he's shown comparable power repeatedly, and I don't think it's SMvsFL.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
He may be able to turn Hulk back into banner, but apparantly, Banner can't be cured for good. ROM already tried that and he discovered that he couldn't change him back because of the endless amounts of radiation in his body. Now, maybe Aquaman is a different story, but that's would be pure speculation.

Why it's magical based, as the Lady of Lake give him his new hand. The same Lady of the Lake that give King Arthur Excalibur. Arthur could literally cleanse the radiation out of him.

Originally posted by Dalak
Am I using any of Aquaman's loq-end feats against him? No because I've maintained that Low End feats don't count.

And theres a big difference between Autism and a truly 'Mental' disorder. Autism counts because it is a physical abnormality that affects the Mind, not like it's MPD, OCD, Schizophrenia and the like. SOmething that the mind develops on it's own, not because of a physiological reason.

Blanking a mind is different than trying to stimulate one specific chunk (One shared/inherited by Fish), and he even had trouble with Polaris thanks to his Multiple Personalities.

Also J'onn scanned all the people on the planet, which have more advanced minds that the bulk of all sealife, mindfragged those Martians even worse if I remember, and can shut off the Joker's Insanity for a while. Do you honestly think that he would beat J'onn in a battle of the minds?

BTW How many of his best TP has been used against Humans, and not hyper-evolved Sharks and other undersea people? And I wonder how many of those Mutated People he's reverted produced their own radiation in increasing amounts instead of just being affected by it? That or just how many and how hard it was.

I agree the team can win, and while I may be underestimating Aquaman I am not overestimating Hulk here. You seem to be underestimating teh green guy as well, as others have hense why I didn't leave earlier.

So while Aquaman can heal he can't heal a purely Mental disorder.

And Hulk's resistance to TP should hold off Aquaman for the duration of the fight. It's not like Bloodlusted Namor is going to hold back while Aquaman wrassles Hulk with his mind.

Of course at that point an Earthquake Stomp of Sonic Slam could distract him, hense why Hulk gets wins in.

Oh yes, can you give me a feat of something holding the Hulk successfully that's not been outclassed by what he can do? He's smashed/split Mountains, he's torn through energy fields of all shapes and sizes (Including Doom's which has taken blasts from the Beyonder), he's even smashed a planetoid 2x the size of Earth. It's within his powerset and he's shown comparable power repeatedly, and I don't think it's SMvsFL.

oooook, but his high end feats would work on the Hulk

Except it's more impresive to cure that as he had to alter his genetics to do it. Plus without the hand Aquaman was probing Doctor Polaris with multiple personalities.

Actually not really, as when Aquaman targets the specific part of the brain he can block it out. As he has done before. Yeah that was old Aquaman prior to his massive upgrade and getting "The Clear"

Did I say that? no, just that Aquaman's is one of the best TP users in DCU. He beat a white martian quickly and easily and if you know who they are that's a massive feat and that was prior to getting all his upgrades. When MM was in trouble against Despero, who did he call for help? Aquaman...and he actually did better against him than J'onn did.

Against Dr.Polaris, Steel, basically anyone or thing that evolved from the sea even martians. and? his magical hand could literally cleanze the radiation

Considering I have over 200 comics of the Hulk, I'm far from underestimating him.

what?...he was helping Dr.Polaris without the hand and by the medical guide Autism is STILL a mental disorder. Curing that is far more impressive as he had to heal his entire body, plus his mind.

Once again he doesn't have complete resistance to TP, and while Hulk is fighting Namor Aquaman could use his hand to heal or tweak with his mind.

and....? distraction is one thing, but when your going against a guy such as Namor who has multiple wins over him solo it's going to take more than that.

Your joking right? you actually believe Hulk can break the bands yet cosmic entities that can think Hulk out of existance can't? 😘 No it's not in his power when people far far far stronger than him couldn't.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
[B]Why it's magical based, as the Lady of Lake give him his new hand. The same Lady of the Lake that give King Arthur Excalibur. Arthur could literally cleanse the radiation out of him.

If Magic could cure Hulk that easily then Doc Strange would have done it years ago, he even admitted in the Illuminati that there was nothing he could do.

Except it's more impresive to cure that as he had to alter his genetics to do it. Plus without the hand Aquaman was probing Doctor Polaris with multiple personalities.

Actually not really, as when Aquaman targets the specific part of the brain he can block it out. As he has done before. Yeah that was old Aquaman prior to his massive upgrade and getting "The Clear"

what?...he was helping Dr.Polaris without the hand and by the medical guide Autism is STILL a mental disorder. Curing that is far more impressive as he had to heal his entire body, plus his mind.

It's not a better feat in that Banner's problem is purely mental with no phycial issues to heal. Unless Aquaman has healed a purely mental disorder, not one rooted in physical abnormality, then assuming he can do so is just that: An Assumption.

Can you give an example of him like J'onn temporarily healing Jokers Insanity?

Did I say that? no, just that Aquaman's is one of the best TP users in DCU. He beat a white martian quickly and easily and if you know who they are that's a massive feat and that was prior to getting all his upgrades. When MM was in trouble against Despero, who did he call for help? Aquaman...and he actually did better against him than J'onn did.

I asked you because you were using his actions against the WHite Martians overplay probing J'onn. And if he did it to the WHite Martians why not J'onn either? I'm serious, Do you think Aquaman could beat J'onn in a battle of the minds?

Oh yes, how many heroic Telepaths does teh JLA have?

Against Dr.Polaris, Steel, basically anyone or thing that evolved from the sea even martians. and? his magical hand could literally cleanze the radiation.

See Responces Above, unless you belive that this Water Hand can do things that Dr Strange cannot.

Once again he doesn't have complete resistance to TP, and while Hulk is fighting Namor Aquaman could use his hand to heal or tweak with his mind.

and....? distraction is one thing, but when your going against a guy such as Namor who has multiple wins over him solo it's going to take more than that.

Considering I have over 200 comics of the Hulk, I'm far from underestimating him.

Distracting Hulk from the fight with a Mind-Duel, while the fight is distracting him from his Mental Battle keeps him from focussing his rage to drive off the TP and fight back against Namor.

And Namor has at best Stalemated Hulk on land, unless they get him in the water there is no assured win. And from teh Hulk Annual a breathing and weakend Hulk was able to fight Namor much better underwater, and now he can do that regularly so while it's still assured (Namove > Anyone, underwater) it's not going to be as easy, and Hulk fighting smart (One of teh biggest facets of Bloodlust) can just jump back out of the water instead of stupidly and stubborly staying there.

Your joking right? you actually believe Hulk can break the bands yet cosmic entities that can think Hulk out of existance can't? 😘 No it's not in his power when people far far far stronger than him couldn't.

Actually I looked this up, and now I'm withdrawing it. They didn't hold a Heroes Reborn Hulk and one who was channeling the power of that world on 616 shattered 2 mystic bubbles Strange put around him. Strange did hold Hulk successfully with them once other than that.

Originally posted by Dalak
If Magic could cure Hulk that easily then Doc Strange would have done it years ago, he even admitted in the Illuminati that there was nothing he could do.

It's not a better feat in that Banner's problem is purely mental with no phycial issues to heal. Unless Aquaman has healed a purely mental disorder, not one rooted in physical abnormality, then assuming he can do so is just that: An Assumption.

Can you give an example of him like J'onn temporarily healing Jokers Insanity?

I asked you because you were using his actions against the WHite Martians overplay probing J'onn. And if he did it to the WHite Martians why not J'onn either? I'm serious, Do you think Aquaman could beat J'onn in a battle of the minds?

Oh yes, how many heroic Telepaths does teh JLA have?

See Responces Above, unless you belive that this Water Hand can do things that Dr Strange cannot.

Distracting Hulk from the fight with a Mind-Duel, while the fight is distracting him from his Mental Battle keeps him from focussing his rage to drive off the TP and fight back against Namor.

And Namor has at best Stalemated Hulk on land, unless they get him in the water there is no assured win. And from teh Hulk Annual a breathing and weakend Hulk was able to fight Namor much better underwater, and now he can do that regularly so while it's still assured (Namove > Anyone, underwater) it's not going to be as easy, and Hulk fighting smart (One of teh biggest facets of Bloodlust) can just jump back out of the water instead of stupidly and stubborly staying there.

It's call PIS, as why wouldn't strange be able to cure him or even put up a magical telepathy block? There are many things they could have done, but they wanted him off the planet and do you really think they would just flat out cure the Hulk? he's a big ticket

No physical issues? his whole thing is physical. Hardly as if he can alter people's brain waves as shown before and heal mutated people than how is this an assumption?

Once again he caused a white martian to have a seizure, or once again I mention the Clear. Do you know what that is?

No it's called using several examples of showing high-end feats, and probally not but he definetly could give him a fight. Both are high end telepathy users, especially since Aquaman's upgrade.

No I'm talking about the entire DCU, not just the JLA.

No, but look once again at Dr.Strange's feats yeah I call pull as aliens cured Bruce Banner temportally of the Hulk.

If he is already being mind-attacked plus getting physically attacked by Namor there won't be much he could do. Especially if he attacks from a distance.

Remember Namor's black suit he doesn't dry out nearly as fast as he does. As DarkCrawler, Namor is his baby. Hell look at all the times he has fought the Hulk. If this is Savage Hulk he wouldn't flee he would want to try to prove he is the "Strongest there is"

Originally posted by King_Mungi
[B]It's call PIS, as why wouldn't strange be able to cure him or even put up a magical telepathy block? There are many things they could have done, but they wanted him off the planet and do you really think they would just flat out cure the Hulk? he's a big ticket

So are you trying to say that every hero and/or villian with an 'Incurable' condition is PIS?

"No physical issues? his whole thing is physical. Hardly as if he can alter people's brain waves as shown before and heal mutated people than how is this an assumption?

Once again he caused a white martian to have a seizure, or once again I mention the Clear. Do you know what that is?"

No, tell me about the Clear, and he didn't Heal Polaris, saying he did is misrepresentation. Aquaman was messing with his head and he got interrupted. I asked if Polaris was changed afterward and you never responded. Was he changed? Did anything occur?

It's a simple yes/no question: Has Aquaman Healed A Purely Mental Condition?

No it's called using several examples of showing high-end feats, and probally not but he definetly could give him a fight. Both are high end telepathy users, especially since Aquaman's upgrade.

No I'm talking about the entire DCU, not just the JLA.

No, but look once again at Dr.Strange's feats yeah I call pull as aliens cured Bruce Banner temportally of the Hulk.

Temporarily, as every 'cure' has resulted. Same with THing, same with Joker, same with every other 'Incurable' case in comics.

Are you saing AIDS still existing in comics is PIS? That all disease, mutation, and all illness in the world can be cured with a snap of those water fingers?

Which is more likely PIS: Aquaman able to cure everything, or him not being able to?

If he is already being mind-attacked plus getting physically attacked by Namor there won't be much he could do. Especially if he attacks from a distance.

Remember Namor's black suit he doesn't dry out nearly as fast as he does. As DarkCrawler, Namor is his baby. Hell look at all the times he has fought the Hulk. If this is Savage Hulk he wouldn't flee he would want to try to prove he is the "Strongest there is"

Actually If Namor had been fighting the Hulk during the Onslaught saga I'd give them 10/10 odds seeing as a bolt of lighting to the head with a strong TP attack would KO him every time. (Cable + Storm = Hulk Reboot) He'd get back up in a while, but after the 10 count.

And it didn't say Savage, it said Hulk, therefore it's the Current Hulk who's not that stupid. He'd hop out of the water and make them come to him. And he'd get the chance to hop seeing as his Claps are more devastating underwater.

Im sorry, but this is what I see happening

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/incrediblehulk118187ji.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/incrediblehulk118195ly.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/incrediblehulk118200el.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/incrediblehulk118211kg.jpg

Now together, these two shouldn't have much of a problem with the Hulk.

BTW Dalak, I just wanted to let you know that the crimson bands of Cyttorak are as strong as the wielders confidence. This could mean that when the the wielder put it on Hulk he wasn't confident enough to hold him.

oh yea, Namor has also broken the Crimson bands of Cyttorak.

Originally posted by Dalak

Actually If Namor had been fighting the Hulk during the Onslaught saga I'd give them 10/10 odds seeing as a bolt of lighting to the head with a strong TP attack would KO him every time. (Cable + Storm = Hulk Reboot) He'd get back up in a while, but after the 10 count.

Well, what if Namor absorbs energy, and fires it at Hulk's head at the same time that Aquaman attacks him with telepathy?
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/2784/namorfeat235rn.gif
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9879/namorfeat241uq.gif

Originally posted by Soujaboy
Im sorry, but this is what I see happening

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/incrediblehulk118187ji.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/incrediblehulk118195ly.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/incrediblehulk118200el.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/incrediblehulk118211kg.jpg

Now together, these two shouldn't have much of a problem with the Hulk.

BTW Dalak, I just wanted to let you know that the crimson bands of Cyttorak are as strong as the wielders confidence. This could mean that when the the wielder put it on Hulk he wasn't confident enough to hold him.

oh yea, Namor has also broken the Crimson bands of Cyttorak.

Thanks for the scans, Hulk reffering to himself as Me clinches that he was Gravage. The early Hulk that reverted back to Banner when he had too much stress.

And the Bands being like Gladiator is a useful bit of info, so I thank you for that.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, what if Namor absorbs energy, and fires it at Hulk's head at the same time that Aquaman attacks him with telepathy?
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/2784/namorfeat235rn.gif
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9879/namorfeat241uq.gif

So how did that attack affect the Hulk? Did he go down?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, what if Namor absorbs energy, and fires it at Hulk's head at the same time that Aquaman attacks him with telepathy?
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/2784/namorfeat235rn.gif
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9879/namorfeat241uq.gif

Namor has been shown that his lightning doesn't work on the Hulk previously, so why would he use it again? It was a singular strategy that Namor and AM would have no way of knowing about.

Namor's electrical attack. DEF #52?
http://img64.echo.cx/img64/2883/durabilityelectricity033gj.jpg

Originally posted by Dinalfos
So how did that attack affect the Hulk? Did he go down?

No, I posted teh whole page in my last post.

Originally posted by Dalak
Thanks for the scans, Hulk reffering to himself as Me clinches that he was Gravage. The early Hulk that reverted back to Banner when he had too much stress.

Well, you see, I'm not sure of that. He did talk about himself in third person most of the time, and he also called Namor "Fish-Man", like Savage Hulk does. Hulk also was Savage between Incredible Hulk vol. 2 #101-272, and this issue was Incredible Hulk v2 #188. I think it was Savage. Must just been that ol' Stan made a mistake. Namor also did knock out mindcontrolled Savage in Tales to Astonish 100, and he defeated Gravage in one page in Avengers.

Originally posted by Dalak
No, I posted teh whole page in my last post.

Well, then I guess Namor's attack is useless for a double atack.

Originally posted by Dalak
Namor has been shown that his lightning doesn't work on the Hulk previously, so why would he use it again? It was a singular strategy that Namor and AM would have no way of knowing about.

Namor's electrical attack. DEF #52?
http://img64.echo.cx/img64/2883/durabilityelectricity033gj.jpg

He could absorb more electricity. Also, he could direct it to his head, didn't Storm do that?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He could absorb more electricity. Also, he could direct it to his head, didn't Storm do that?

Storm did that because Cable told her to at the same time he made a mental attack, and he figured it could help to jumpstart his mind.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, you see, I'm not sure of that. He did talk about himself in third person most of the time, and he also called Namor "Fish-Man", like Savage Hulk does. Hulk also was Savage between Incredible Hulk vol. 2 #101-272, and this issue was Incredible Hulk v2 #188. I think it was Savage. Must just been that ol' Stan made a mistake. Namor also did knock out mindcontrolled Savage in Tales to Astonish 100, and he defeated Gravage in one page in Avengers.

Issue #188 is about The Gremiln bitting Hulk against somethign that looks like a Triceratops, with MUCH better art.

Tales To Astonish days were all Gravage.

Originally posted by Dalak
Issue #188 is about The Gremiln bitting Hulk against somethign that looks like a Triceratops, with MUCH better art.

Tales To Astonish days were all Gravage.

Issue 118, I mean. And according to this site, Gravage was slowly replaced by Savage in TTA:
http://www.hulknews.com/hulkdatabase/incarnations2.php

Incredible Hulk #2-6, Tales to Astonish #59-64, #70-80 (slowly replaced by the Savage Hulk)

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Issue 118, I mean. And according to this site, Gravage was slowly replaced by Savage in TTA:
http://www.hulknews.com/hulkdatabase/incarnations2.php

I can show 4-5 pages in that comic where he refers to himself in teh first person. That Hulk, regardless of what a fansite says, is Gravage.

On the bottom of the page, form #122, Hulk 'fights too long' and turns back into banner

Originally posted by Dalak
I can show 4-5 pages in that comic where he refers to himself in teh first person. That Hulk, regardless of what a fansite says, is Gravage.

On the bottom of the page, form #122, Hulk 'fights too long' and turns back into banner

So whats that have to do with Namor ko Hulk?

Originally posted by Dalak
I can show 4-5 pages in that comic where he refers to himself in teh first person. That Hulk, regardless of what a fansite says, is Gravage.

On the bottom of the page, form #122, Hulk 'fights too long' and turns back into banner

Isn't "he" still in third person?

And yeah, I guess Hulk in 118 is Gravage after all.