Originally posted by Dalak
And Doc Sampson seperated them, which ended up nearly killing them.And I don't remember any Aliens curing Hulk. When was this, and how did he end up becoming Hulk again?
I asked you if he was changed afterward, you replied no. I posted and then you said he did. Make up your mind please.
healing a Body and altering Genetics is impressive, but healing something that is no 'injury' and is purely Mental (No Physiological Cause) is far more impressive to me.
and they were cured and survived, so the incurable disease isn't incurable.
The Incredible Hulk #271-272, he had to once again give in as Wendigo was about to attack and kill him. This was the start of Banner in control of the Hulk's body. Later, Walter seperating the body of the two could have saved them both and cured Banner and none would have died. All though Walter felt it would have killed Banner, which Banner admits it wouldn't have.
No I said he was being changed until Dolphen intrupted him. If she didn't he would have been even Dr.Polaris knew it.
Except Aquaman healed both body and mind as he even said. Plus he was manipulating dr.polaris even before his upgrade
The rest DarkCrawler is discussing you with
Originally posted by King_Mungi
and they were cured and survived, so the incurable disease isn't incurable.The Incredible Hulk #271-272, he had to once again give in as Wendigo was about to attack and kill him. This was the start of Banner in control of the Hulk's body. Later, Walter seperating the body of the two could have saved them both and cured Banner and none would have died. All though Walter felt it would have killed Banner, which Banner admits it wouldn't have.
No I said he was being changed until Dolphen intrupted him. If she didn't he would have been even Dr.Polaris knew it.
Except Aquaman healed both body and mind as he even said. Plus he was manipulating dr.polaris even before his upgrade
The rest DarkCrawler is discussing you with
Okay, I jsut read both comics, and they didn't cure him, they used Gamma rays that affected him oddly and gave Bruce banner's mind control for a bit, but it was always tenuous. He was becoming savage before Nightmare got involved after The Secret War. The 'cure' you speak of was mentoined in the same page as him transforming into the Hulk. They used accidental radiation, they didn't take it away. The only one I've known to do that successfully is Silver Surfer, and Power Cosmic > Water Hand.
Now where did Sasquatch say he could/did seperate them? The only occurance of that I thought was with Sampson.
And I've said my peace about the rest, repeating it again isn't going to change your mind.
Originally posted by Dalak
Okay, I jsut read both comics, and they didn't cure him, they used Gamma rays that affected him oddly and gave Bruce banner's mind control for a bit, but it was always tenuous. He was becoming savage before Nightmare got involved after The Secret War. The 'cure' you speak of was mentoined in the same page as him transforming into the Hulk. They used accidental radiation, they didn't take it away. The only one I've known to do that successfully is Silver Surfer, and Power Cosmic > Water Hand.Now where did Sasquatch say he could/did seperate them? The only occurance of that I thought was with Sampson.
And I've said my peace about the rest, repeating it again isn't going to change your mind.
No he even mentions he was cured after the radiation and tried desperitely to transform back as Sasquatch was fighting Wendigo. Then through sheer will he finally transformed into the Hulk. As stated "it was the first time, the mind triggers change within the body". That doesn't mean anyone under power cosmic can do that as well.
Hulk #313, Walter took over Hulk's body.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
No he even mentions he was cured after the radiation and tried desperitely to transform back as Sasquatch was fighting Wendigo. Then through sheer will he finally transformed into the Hulk. As stated "it was the first time, the mind triggers change within the body". That doesn't mean anyone under power cosmic can do that as well.Hulk #313, Walter took over Hulk's body.
YOu are overlooking a very important fact: If he was cured there would be no Hulk. It just temporarily changed teh way he manifested, it did not 'cure' him.
And Walter took over Hulk's body for long enough to explain teh situation, there is no guarentee that as before the Hulk and Banner wouldn't weaken and die apart. No one said that it was guarenteed that Walter could do it permanently or not, though Banner certainly wanted him to. Besides, The Hulk was still in the body or it wouldn't have been in that form.
And while Non-Power Cosmic users aren't ruled out, it shows the level of energy manipulation it takes to drain off all of Hulk's constantly created Gamma Radiation. There's a difference between a pasivelly radioactive mutant, and the Hulk which puts out radiation and power while putting out even more in a constantly increasing degree as he gets angrier.
I've also remembered something: The Rules here state that all unspecified matches occur in the Arena, not New York. I confused that bit with SHC and their rules. Therefore the match is in a sandy arena with them starting 100ft apart. I'll have to adjust my earlier opinion after some thought on the matter since neither Aquaman or Namor will have access to water or sea creatures.
Originally posted by Dalak
YOu are overlooking a very important fact: If he was cured there would be no Hulk. It just temporarily changed teh way he manifested, it did not 'cure' him.And Walter took over Hulk's body for long enough to explain teh situation, there is no guarentee that as before the Hulk and Banner wouldn't weaken and die apart. No one said that it was guarenteed that Walter could do it permanently or not, though Banner certainly wanted him to. Besides, The Hulk was still in the body or it wouldn't have been in that form.
And while Non-Power Cosmic users aren't ruled out, it shows the level of energy manipulation it takes to drain off all of Hulk's constantly created Gamma Radiation. There's a difference between a pasivelly radioactive mutant, and the Hulk which puts out radiation and power while putting out even more in a constantly increasing degree as he gets angrier.
I've also remembered something: The Rules here state that all unspecified matches occur in the Arena, not New York. I confused that bit with SHC and their rules. Therefore the match is in a sandy arena with them starting 100ft apart. I'll have to adjust my earlier opinion after some thought on the matter since neither Aquaman or Namor will have access to water or sea creatures.
It cured in the sense where if he didn't forceable change there wouldn't be a Hulk. TP can manipulate a person from having those urges and those were from furry aliens that did it to him. As you mentioned as well as Thing is another incurable case, but how many times has he became human again?
Actually it was said in Alpha Flight it would be permant, as that was Walter's hope to get a new body. The teather line bonds Walter's soul into Hulk's and that's why Bruce's was expelled in aestral form. They were hoping for a brainless monster to send the line in on.
Not really, it just shows a uber person easily doing it once again that doesn't mean the Waterbearer from the Lady of the Lake can't do that.
Doesn't matter as Aquaman doesn't dry out, and he has commanded land creatures as well. Plus Namor with his black suit doesn't dry out fast.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
[B]It cured in the sense where if he didn't forceable change there wouldn't be a Hulk. TP can manipulate a person from having those urges and those were from furry aliens that did it to him. As you mentioned as well as Thing is another incurable case, but how many times has he became human again?
I don't know, but he always rejects it. On theory was that he didn't think the blind girl with the A name (I'm HORRIBLE with names) would love ben grimm without the tragedy of The Thing.
And Hulk Was Not Cured, the condition was altered by the Gamma of the Galaxy master and the Gamma that unintentionally bombarded him when they transported him to earth, it wasn't just the aliens nor was it intentional. Bruce mentions that in #272 and I'm willing to post the pages.
Actually it was said in Alpha Flight it would be permant, as that was Walter's hope to get a new body. The teather line bonds Walter's soul into Hulk's and that's why Bruce's was expelled in aestral form. They were hoping for a brainless monster to send the line in on.
I understand the Mindless part as that is gone into in teh Hulk comic, but I'd like to see that statement if you don't mind.
Not really, it just shows a uber person easily doing it once again that doesn't mean the Waterbearer from the Lady of the Lake can't do that.
It doesn't mean he can't but that doesn't mean he can either.
Doesn't matter as Aquaman doesn't dry out, and he has commanded land creatures as well. Plus Namor with his black suit doesn't dry out fast.
There aren't any creatures in the arena. It's all in Khazaan. Just a large empty arena filled with sand and ringed by a Audience seating area with a God Proof Dome over them. Namor can fly free, but leaving the arena intentionally earns a loss.
It should all be in the rules thread but I can Quote from CBR.
Originally posted by Dalak
I don't know, but he always rejects it. On theory was that he didn't think the blind girl with the A name (I'm HORRIBLE with names) would love ben grimm without the tragedy of The Thing.And Hulk Was Not Cured, the condition was altered by the Gamma of the Galaxy master and the Gamma that unintentionally bombarded him when they transported him to earth, it wasn't just the aliens nor was it intentional. Bruce mentions that in #272 and I'm willing to post the pages.
I understand the Mindless part as that is gone into in teh Hulk comic, but I'd like to see that statement if you don't mind.
It doesn't mean he can't but that doesn't mean he can either.
There aren't any creatures in the arena. It's all in Khazaan. Just a large empty arena filled with sand and ringed by a Audience seating area with a God Proof Dome over them. Namor can fly free, but leaving the arena intentionally earns a loss.
It should all be in the rules thread but I can Quote from CBR.
Except 99% of the time he moans about trying to cure himself. He even traveled to the past to fight his old self to give himself a cure. However, by doing so didn't cure him but the old Ben he gave the cure to just created a divergent timeline. He wants nothing more to be human again.
Medical condition once again, if it's dormant or don't reacure it's cured. I have the comic, and what differences does it make? he literally was cured until he forceable made himself transform the first time he ever did that.
Alpha Flight #25-27
It's the Lady of the Lake the person who gave Arthur Excalibur
Now your making your own stipulation. There are animals that exist in the desert, no area is devoid of life forms. Actually no it dpesn't, if they can return on their own free will or power the match continues that's what the rule ditcates. Also why would Namor even flee? that's not even close to being in character.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Except 99% of the time he moans about trying to cure himself. He even traveled to the past to fight his old self to give himself a cure. However, by doing so didn't cure him but the old Ben he gave the cure to just created a divergent timeline. He wants nothing more to be human again.Medical condition once again, if it's dormant or don't reacure it's cured. I have the comic, and what differences does it make? he literally was cured until he forceable made himself transform the first time he ever did that.
Alpha Flight #25-27
It's the Lady of the Lake the person who gave Arthur Excalibur
Now your making your own stipulation. There are animals that exist in the desert, no area is devoid of life forms. Actually no it dpesn't, if they can return on their own free will or power the match continues that's what the rule ditcates. Also why would Namor even flee? that's not even close to being in character.
Yet he moans about being a monster when fighting the Hulk in teh F4 issues before Planet Hulk.
And yeah, Hulk's cured . . . about as much as he's cured every time Savage Hulk turns back into Banner. If the pre-existing condition (Hulk Transformation, triggers have varied. In this case Willing the transformation) still exists, then it's NOT cured, and no amount of rationalization will make it otherwise.
NO stipulation, it's the Arena:
From the CBR Rules Thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=94119)
"05. Setting: The default battle area is the Arena of Khazan, a colossal arena that looks somewhat like a Roman Amphitheatre. It is typically a 250 feet by 200 feet ellipse, though the size is adjustable in accordance to the size of the contestants; the opposing sides start out about 100 feet from one another. The Arena of Khazan is itself next to completely indestructable. The audience are protected from stray energy blasts/debis/body parts by a godly powered forcefield. The ground of the arena itself does not have this protection, nor is the skydome covered by it. Somewhere in the arena is located a commentators box (location seems to vary)."
There is not a Default Location posted in case no one indicates it, and since the rules were taken from CBR I'm posting it.
And I mentioned specifically INTENTIONAL leaving if you'll look back at my post, so I didn't say being knocked out of the Arena is automatically a loss. Regardless if someone is thrown into orbit they are out. (Unless Namor's flight works without air)
Originally posted by Dalak
Yet he moans about being a monster when fighting the Hulk in teh F4 issues before Planet Hulk.And yeah, Hulk's cured . . . about as much as he's cured every time Savage Hulk turns back into Banner. If the pre-existing condition (Hulk Transformation, triggers have varied. In this case Willing the transformation) still exists, then it's NOT cured, and no amount of rationalization will make it otherwise.
NO stipulation, it's the Arena:
From the CBR Rules Thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=94119)
"05. Setting: The default battle area is the Arena of Khazan, a colossal arena that looks somewhat like a Roman Amphitheatre. It is typically a 250 feet by 200 feet ellipse, though the size is adjustable in accordance to the size of the contestants; the opposing sides start out about 100 feet from one another. The Arena of Khazan is itself next to completely indestructable. The audience are protected from stray energy blasts/debis/body parts by a godly powered forcefield. The ground of the arena itself does not have this protection, nor is the skydome covered by it. Somewhere in the arena is located a commentators box (location seems to vary)."
There is not a Default Location posted in case no one indicates it, and since the rules were taken from CBR I'm posting it.
And I mentioned specifically INTENTIONAL leaving if you'll look back at my post, so I didn't say being knocked out of the Arena is automatically a loss. Regardless if someone is thrown into orbit they are out. (Unless Namor's flight works without air)
That Arena thing would be cool for some fighters, but it would be a huge disadvantage for other's, batman, Mr fantastic, guys that can think on the fly in a city setting, or in this case, Aquaman and Namor with no water.
Originally posted by Dalak
Yet he moans about being a monster when fighting the Hulk in teh F4 issues before Planet Hulk.And yeah, Hulk's cured . . . about as much as he's cured every time Savage Hulk turns back into Banner. If the pre-existing condition (Hulk Transformation, triggers have varied. In this case Willing the transformation) still exists, then it's NOT cured, and no amount of rationalization will make it otherwise.
NO stipulation, it's the Arena:
From the CBR Rules Thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=94119)
"05. Setting: The default battle area is the Arena of Khazan, a colossal arena that looks somewhat like a Roman Amphitheatre. It is typically a 250 feet by 200 feet ellipse, though the size is adjustable in accordance to the size of the contestants; the opposing sides start out about 100 feet from one another. The Arena of Khazan is itself next to completely indestructable. The audience are protected from stray energy blasts/debis/body parts by a godly powered forcefield. The ground of the arena itself does not have this protection, nor is the skydome covered by it. Somewhere in the arena is located a commentators box (location seems to vary)."
There is not a Default Location posted in case no one indicates it, and since the rules were taken from CBR I'm posting it.
And I mentioned specifically INTENTIONAL leaving if you'll look back at my post, so I didn't say being knocked out of the Arena is automatically a loss. Regardless if someone is thrown into orbit they are out. (Unless Namor's flight works without air)
Ummm...that kinda proves me point he doesn't want to be a monster.
Actually no, Hulk would have went compliant dormant ie not be able to transform back into Hulk through rage or fear. Banner had to forceably alter the process, without it there would have been no Hulk. Prior he had no choice it was all automatic, but Banner sacrificed this to help save Sasquatch as he said.
The rules don't indicate the exact surrondings (inside the dome), and no matter where you are you can use the landscape to your advantage. It just tells about the arena, and the people are protected from the fight with the forcefield that doesn't mean the entire area has it. Even says that in the rules.
His wings were never explained, but two class 100 would have an easier time through one person into orbit as well. It can go both ways.
Originally posted by Dalak
Do you know Hulk's other speed feats? He's not some Uber-Stupid and Slow Brick like so many assume. He's caught Artillery shells in teh air and spun around and hurled them back, he's caught Jets in flight, when Jumping he's confused for an ICBM sometimes, and he's Tagged Quicksilver (Like who hasn't 😉 )
He's fast, but Namor is faster. And he's gone faster then he does in that pic. You can clearly see that (with Hulk having time to stand up and all, it's clearly not Namor speedblitzing like he has done gazillions of times underwater)
Artilerry shields and Jets don't really think or are capable of doding under that kind of conditions. Namor does.
Originally posted by Dalak
Hulk isnt' slow, and just juked and grabbed Namor. He's zooming around him just like he did the robot at the top of the second list: to come around from behind, but Hulk was quick enough to shift slightly and catch him. It's nothing he hasn't done before.
It's not Hulk's catching speed that wonders me, it's Namor's dodging speed. He's dodged faster and more difficult things then that, is the fastest being underwater, and has insane experience of doing that. Dodging the Hulk's catching hand should be childs play to him.
Originally posted by Dalak
And 15000 ft straight down when you've got a guy that's nearly a ton (At LEAST Half) sinking added into whatever you're doing to him isn't quite a Speed Feat IMO.
He's not moving slow enough for him to sink there. He's PUSHING him through the water. Which would just lessen his speed, actually.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He's fast, but Namor is faster. And he's gone faster then he does in that pic. You can clearly see that (with Hulk having time to stand up and all, it's clearly not Namor speedblitzing like he has done gazillions of times underwater)Artilerry shields and Jets don't really think or are capable of doding under that kind of conditions. Namor does.
It's not Hulk's catching speed that wonders me, it's Namor's dodging speed. He's dodged faster and more difficult things then that, is the fastest being underwater, and has insane experience of doing that. Dodging the Hulk's catching hand should be childs play to him.
How many times has Namor left a Sonic Boom?
And no he's not Speedblitzing him in a whirlpool but that doesn't mean he's not going close to full speed. Hulk grabbed after Namor was past so he still couldn't 'see' it happening. He has better than Human reflexes but he's not the Flash man.
He's not moving slow enough for him to sink there. He's PUSHING him through the water. Which would just lessen his speed, actually.
Gravity still has an effect, that cannot be denied. I did forget about the density of the Water though.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Actually no, Hulk would have went compliant dormant ie not be able to transform back into Hulk through rage or fear. Banner had to forceably alter the process, without it there would have been no Hulk. Prior he had no choice it was all automatic, but Banner sacrificed this to help save Sasquatch as he said.
No, something going into dormancy is NOT a cure. Is syphylis cured when it shows no symptoms and does no damage? Neither is a Hulk who lies in wait to be summoned. He. Was. Not. Cured.
BTW He didn't sacrifice anything to save Sasquatch, not even close. He transformed to save his ownn life. He thought, THOUGHT he was cured and that gave him a will to live, and it was that will to live and defend himself that triggers the transformation and the scans below will show.
And even then it wasn't perfect as the Savage Popped up for a second showing that he was suppressed and not cured.
Suppression =/= Cure
They have pills that suppress Herpes outbreaks but it even says in the commercials: It Is Not A Cure.
Why is this so hard for me to explain to you?
Originally posted by Dalak
No, something going into dormancy is NOT a cure. Is syphylis cured when it shows no symptoms and does no damage? Neither is a Hulk who lies in wait to be summoned. He. Was. Not. Cured.BTW He didn't sacrifice anything to save Sasquatch, not even close. He transformed to save his ownn life. He thought, THOUGHT he was cured and that gave him a will to live, and it was that will to live and defend himself that triggers the transformation and the scans below will show.
And even then it wasn't perfect as the Savage Popped up for a second showing that he was suppressed and not cured.
Suppression =/= Cure
They have pills that suppress Herpes outbreaks but it even says in the commercials: It Is Not A Cure.
Why is this so hard for me to explain to you?
Actually wrong, medical guide once again as I graduated from Pre: Health states if it goes into dormancy you are in fact cured.
Wrong again, he even states he has to save Sasquatcgh "I've got to help him" and explains how could he if he is just Banner and then he forceable made the change. That actually just hurt your case even more posting the scans.
