Personally? I think Desann's overrated. He got beat by Katarn, who didn't have that much training at this point. He held off Luke, sure, but can you really say Luke was going all out? Luke, a year before, dueled faster than the eye can see, became an "embodiment" of the Light side and beat the Reborn Emperor in a saber match.
Do you honestly think Desann could best one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever (DE Sidious)?
Malak, on the other hand, is regarded as near Dooku's and Mace's level on this forum...
Originally posted by kamikzAs I said, this battle is between video-game characters, so it's difficult to judge. And never make the mistake of basing facts on feats. Saying so, your opinion that Dooku could have taken Yoda doesn't count for much, but that's irrelevant. And if I've read correctly, DE Palpatine scared the bajeezus out of Luke, who succumbed to the Dark. Palpatine also defeated Luke one on one. He only beat him thanks to timely intervention of his sister. And the DE timeline is set about a 3 to 4 years before JO, so don't hype Luke up too much yet.
Luke was still good enough to beat DE Sidious, and this is some years AFTER DE. Also, you can't blame the plotline. I could say as well that Dooku could have killed Yoda in AOTC if it wasn't for plot necessarity...Luke was afraid to meet Desann, he confessed this himself. When he attacked him Luke didn't even sense him coming. If you are afraid of someone you are not very likley to go easy on them. Kyle even mentioned to Luke at the end of the game, "you should have known it required a failed jedi to take out another failed jedi". Luke had really no reason to go gently on him, especially not since he was damn near to destroy Luke's academy.... Besides, Luke wasn't doing so well in that fight either, falling most of the time (this does not oftenly if at all happen when gameplay characters are fighting in a sword battle). Desann also laughs at him and tosses his lightsaber to buery him. Even IF Luke would not go all out, he would indeed try to stop him, and he failed miserably. Luke by this time would pwn Malak.
Of course if this is normal Desann he does not win, but JO in the end(when he has visited the valley of the jedi) he probably takes it.
Luke wasn't afraid to meet Desann. He's not proud to deny it either, and if he needed Kyle's help, they would have traversed the Lenico Base together. But he didn't require it. As for Kyle's quote, he wasn't being serious, he was purposely undermining himself, which Luke corrected: "Kyle, you were never a failure." As for Luke falling "all the time" in the game, he falls only once in my version, I've even rigged their fighting area with Reborn and mines before, hence the falibilty of the game. The actions aren't set in stone like the movies are. Desann tossed his saber to trap Luke under 10 tons of rubble, which Luke escapes from miraculously. And the events surrounding the fight between Kyle and Desann aren't perfectly canon either, due to the difficulty setting on the game, I beat Desann in a saber duel and didn't have to rely on cheats, the immortality beam, or the pillars. None of it is definte, same goes for the ending fight with Malak, though there aren't as many obstacles in that room in which canonity is a problem.
And Lightsnake's right, Luke has been shown many times to walk purposely into situations that he know's he's outmatched, e.g. ROTJ. Facing Desann would hardly be such an overwhelming prospect as to render Luke petrified. He didn't want to face him because he was his first true failure, and because he knew Kyle had his own score to settle with him.
And Malak has been proven to be quite the expert dueler, and yes, ranked up there with Mace and Dooku. Force-wise he's not THAT special, but again, neither is Desann. I'd take the 7 foot Dark Lord as a back-up over the failed Jedi with not even a decade of training, any day.
Hmm...on the first round i think desann would take it easily, because malak isn't very strong in the force considering he had to use the star forges power to defeat revan.
I believe Malak would take the second round though, since desann's lightsaber combat is very agressive and would be easy for malak's makashi-like style to fend off his attacks and follow up with powerful counter-attacks.
The third round is tough but since i feel that in a battle knowledge of the force is more important than lightsaber ability i'll go with desann.
Desann=2
Malak=1
Desann>malak
Originally posted by Darth SolusAnd you... do realize that Revan would take Desann to school in every way possible. For Malak to hold him off for that long is something.
Hmm...on the first round i think desann would take it easily, because malak isn't very strong in the force considering he had to use the star forges power to defeat revan.I believe Malak would take the second round though, since desann's lightsaber combat is very agressive and would be easy for malak's makashi-like style to fend off his attacks and follow up with powerful counter-attacks.
The third round is tough but since i feel that in a battle knowledge of the force is more important than lightsaber ability i'll go with desann.
Desann=2
Malak=1Desann>malak
Originally posted by Generic Hero
Personally? I think Desann's overrated. He got beat by Katarn, who didn't have that much training at this point. He held off Luke, sure, but can you really say Luke was going all out? Luke, a year before, dueled faster than the eye can see, became an "embodiment" of the Light side and beat the Reborn Emperor in a saber match.Do you honestly think Desann could best one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever (DE Sidious)?
Malak, on the other hand, is regarded as near Dooku's and Mace's level on this forum...
Kyle had his power increased at the Valley of the Jedi. Luke knew that right off the bat when he was able to use the Force so well. Kyle Katarn in Jedi Outcast could take down Count Dooku and it was said that Desann was Kyle's equal or better then.
Malak seems to be weaker then everyone thought. He needed the use the Star Forge to even fight Revan and he still got beat.
Jerec was said to be on Darth Vader's level and Desann could easily take down Jerec.
Originally posted by Tangible God
As I said, this battle is between video-game characters, so it's difficult to judge. And never make the mistake of basing facts on feats. Saying so, your opinion that Dooku could have taken Yoda doesn't count for much, but that's irrelevant. And if I've read correctly, DE Palpatine scared the bajeezus out of Luke, who succumbed to the Dark. Palpatine also defeated Luke one on one. He only beat him thanks to timely intervention of his sister. And the DE timeline is set about a 3 to 4 years before JO, so don't hype Luke up too much yet.Luke wasn't afraid to meet Desann. He's not proud to deny it either, and if he needed Kyle's help, they would have traversed the Lenico Base together. But he didn't require it. As for Kyle's quote, he wasn't being serious, he was purposely undermining himself, which Luke corrected: "Kyle, you were never a failure." As for Luke falling "all the time" in the game, he falls only once in my version, I've even rigged their fighting area with Reborn and mines before, hence the falibilty of the game. The actions aren't set in stone like the movies are. Desann tossed his saber to trap Luke under 10 tons of rubble, which Luke escapes from miraculously. And the events surrounding the fight between Kyle and Desann aren't perfectly canon either, due to the difficulty setting on the game, I beat Desann in a saber duel and didn't have to rely on cheats, the immortality beam, or the pillars. None of it is definte, same goes for the ending fight with Malak, though there aren't as many obstacles in that room in which canonity is a problem.
And Lightsnake's right, Luke has been shown many times to walk purposely into situations that he know's he's outmatched, e.g. ROTJ. Facing Desann would hardly be such an overwhelming prospect as to render Luke petrified. He didn't want to face him because he was his first true failure, and because he knew Kyle had his own score to settle with him.
And Malak has been proven to be quite the expert dueler, and yes, ranked up there with Mace and Dooku. Force-wise he's not THAT special, but again, neither is Desann. I'd take the 7 foot Dark Lord as a back-up over the failed Jedi with not even a decade of training, any day.
You said that Desann only survived because Kyle would face him cause he is the main character. Thing is that that is what happened, like it or not, so it doesn't matter....
Ok so you don't think Luke is such big deal yet, then why is it impossible for him to loose against Desann all of the sudden? Luke only fought on such level because as you said, his sister came in....
Then why did he not want to face him alone? Kyle and Luke did not go together cause Luke were going out to find the source of their power and their source of cortosis, they went seperate ways because they had to.....
That's why I said it is impossible to know how he died. Yes YOU defeated him in saber combat, but that means nothing really. We don't know how he was killed so we can't go around and say, Luke > Kyle, Kyle> Desann, Luke>Desann.
Desann also pushes him far away with the force, then tosses his lightsaber. Then he went away to destroy the academy. Luke never went into the fight purpousley, he was attacked by Desann and he couldn't even sense him. It was not his choice as he explained to Kyle, he was forced to. When they were fighting Luke wasn't even trying to talk to him, they were just fighting and Desann was laughing in the meantime.
Where has Malak been said to be such a great duelist? Give me the facts instead just saying it.....
Desann bad with the force? By only flapping his hand he collapses the top of a pillar with ease, and this is before his power is combined by maybe HUNDREDS of other force users at the valley of the jedi. And since when did less traning mean they are much worse? Luke had trained for 8 months in the OT and still kicked Vader's ass.....
Jerec was said to be on Darth Vader's level and Desann could easily take down Jerec.
The heck?
That's quite impossible. If Jerec were near Vader's level, he'd have become a Sith Lord.
Now, the one thing Jerec really has over Vader is potential. If Jerec were his equal in power as well, Palpatine would have no doubt replaced the mech.
But he didn't. Vader was far more powerful than his Dark Jedi lackey.
Originally posted by Generic Hero
The heck?That's quite impossible. If Jerec were near Vader's level, he'd have become a Sith Lord.
Now, the one thing Jerec really has over Vader is potential. If Jerec were his equal in power as well, Palpatine would have no doubt replaced the mech.
But he didn't. Vader was far more powerful than his Dark Jedi lackey.
Being a Dark Jedi doesn't make you lesser then a Sith. Jerec was a Jedi Master before the Clone Wars and went into exile after that. During which he went to the Emperor and begun to train. If Vader was to be killed and Luke wasn't turned Jerec would become the Emperor's new padawan.
Jerec is on par with Darth Vader and he already reached his potential.
Well Jerec is blind and yet he can see better then many people due to the force. The Emperor trusted him with many dark secrets and he even had Sith Holocrons to train by.
Based on what? All we know is:
- He was a dark jedi who was lower than Vader in rank
- He was an old republic Jedi before that
- He got owned by dude who found his saber in his garage
Under minding Kyle I see. Kyle is one of the greatest Jedi for the New Jedi Order. And again there is no canon version on how Kyle defeated Jerec. All we know is that Kyle did defeat Jerec. And there is a quote in the game that says he was as strong as Vader. I don't remember it because I haven't played the game in a few years.
You have to read into specific things. Characters that originate from comic books or video games have a single universal trait in common - whether it be Star Wars or Superman. They are overpowered.
For example, if you take this at face value - that Desann defeated Luke in combat without any inhibitions on Luke's part - then that makes Desann on par with Emperor Palpatine (as of Dark Empire), Exar Kun - and superior to the likes of Yoda, Mace, Dooku, and so forth.
Does that really make sense?
Describtion of the valley of the jedi's power when stored into someone. (Just replacing Jerec with someone in this case).
If someone gets this power he will become more powerful than anyone the galaxy has witnessed, a floating super nova, a star systems erradication in a whisper, within his power. That's pretty damn powerful. Sure he did not get that powerful, but Desann was indeed strong before that and his power was boosted with maybe hundres or thousands of previous force users. Why is everyone downgrading Desann all of a sudden? What proof do we have that makes him less good than someone else? And I say he could stand up to Luke, he is not ensured victory. (He probably will loose, but not easily) And Luke got his ass handed to him by DE Sidious at first, before Leia came....
So being in a game automatically places him in a lower grade than anyone else that has shown power? Desann only exist in a game, we only know him by this, so what's the point?