Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My point, as usual, still stands. Whilst the specific example used may not be correct, it doesn't render my point moot.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
But Matt punking Surfer not only is 100% canon, it's a fairly recent comic too 👆Norrin never fared well against Murdock. SS really needs to hit the gym.
I just dont like the fact that Dark is a flip flopping Master. He resorts to certain characters being a blitz master, fighting DBZ style based off of them making pies at super speed but then mentions Surfer will do nothing but blast even though he have used his versatility during battle more times than the people Darksaint cheers for that use their speed during combat. Debating with him is irritating AF.
Originally posted by carver9
I just dont like the fact that Dark is a flip flopping Master. He resorts to certain characters being a blitz master, fighting DBZ style based off of them making pies at super speed but then mentions Surfer will do nothing but blast even though he have used his versatility during battle more times than the people Darksaint cheers for that use their speed during combat. Debating with him is irritating AF.
Pot meeting kettle, much?
Originally posted by carver9
I just dont like the fact that Dark is a flip flopping Master. He resorts to certain characters being a blitz master, fighting DBZ style based off of them making pies at super speed but then mentions Surfer will do nothing but blast even though he have used his versatility during battle more times than the people Darksaint cheers for that use their speed during combat. Debating with him is irritating AF.
WTF.
How do you misunderstand me so badly?
As Galan said:
Originally posted by Galan007
More or less.It's not like I'm saying that Supes would use T-vo, Solar Flares, anti-harmonic frequencies, instant lobotomy, infinite strength, etc. to rape WH within the first attosecond of the battle. Hell, you don't even have to believe that Superman would use the full extent of his speed here, and/or straight up blitz WH into oblivion at the onset.
...But it seems really illogical to assume that he wouldn't at least use *enough* speed to avoid potentially lethal strikes from his opponent in a forum setting. /shrug
carv is just being a jackass intentionally, though. He's trying to act like the 'full capacity' thing is what's being discussed here. It isn't.As mentioned, speed is one of the six fundamental abilities at a character's disposal. As an example, this sort of scale is how I think most of us would break down the "fundamental abilities" of any given character(without getting into the more esoteric powers they might have access to):
That being said, the assumption that Superman isn't a drooling buffoon, and would at least use *just enough* of his speed defensively(we're not even talking about offensive speed-blitzes at this point) to stay alive in a forum battle if he deemed his opponent a legitimate threat, isn't remotely the same as Surfer(or any versatile character) pulling exotic abilities out of his ass at the onset.
As someone mentioned earlier: at the end of the day this is a battle board; not a comic book. At some point we have to remove the character(s) from the sharp confines of in-universe plot, and use a smidgen of logic/reason in judging how they might handle themselves in these made-up battles. There has to be a rational suspension of disbelief... And I think it is perfectly rational to believe that a speedster would use *just enough* of their speed(at a minimum) to stay alive in a forum setting.
Does this mean I'm saying that Superman is going to blitz every opponent with planet-busting punches in the first attosecond of the battle, and erase their essence with counter-vibrational frequencies? Obviously not... And anyone who honestly thinks that is the crux of this discussion(not referring to you, btw) really needs to pull their heads out of their own asses.
Saying a speedy character uses speed to avoid getting hit in the face ISN'T the same as what you are now twisting it to become.
In short: speed is a fundamental power. Versatility, if anything, can be almost a negative, especially when faced with a speedy character.
Who wins, a guy with a gun pointed at you from 500m away, or a guy with a Swiss Army knife in his hand?
Originally posted by carver9
I'm nothing like that. I do not pick and choose.
Carver, hey, Carver, WW has awesome combat speed feats!! What does BM have??
Originally posted by carver9
Dont understand why speed is the main topic here but I'll participate. Flies from New York to Greece, defeats an enemy and return during mid convo...https://m.imgur.com/2BiVUuM
https://m.imgur.com/vJlGhWM
https://m.imgur.com/zQERLP8
Travel speed.
BUT:
Originally posted by carver9
You are better than this Saint. Thor has flown FTL on many of occasions and admitted Wolverine was too fast for him.
🙂
In one scenario, travel speed is perfectly A-OK to use. In another, BOO Travel speed bad!
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
WTF.How do you misunderstand me so badly?
As Galan said:
Saying a speedy character uses speed to avoid getting hit in the face ISN'T the same as what you are now twisting it to become.
Aaahhhh, so you're saying a speedster is smart enough to use their speed to avoid hits but Surfer, THE most versatile character in comics is a stupid idiot that would go in blasting after knowing how powerful Doomsday is?
Originally posted by carver9
Aaahhhh, so you're saying a speedster is smart enough to use their speed to avoid hits but Surfer, THE most versatile character in comics is a stupid idiot that would go in blasting after knowing how powerful Doomsday is?
Yes.
Why?
Because Doomsday will be up in his face pretty quickly. In that spur of the moment, I am saying he will fall back on his 'usual' methods of combat.
Because, as we have always argued, we use the in character rule.
Now, AFTER seeing that his blasts are useless, he will THEN fall back on his more versatile attacks, and win.
How is that somehow rocket science for you???
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes.Why?
Because Doomsday will be up in his face pretty quickly. In that spur of the moment, I am saying he will fall back on his 'usual' methods of combat.
Because, as we have always argued, we use the in character rule.
Now, AFTER seeing that his blasts are useless, he will THEN fall back on his more versatile attacks, and win.
How is that somehow rocket science for you???
Show me that in character of Doomsday blitzing across a battle field at the speeds you're mentioning. I want to see fts, not statements. Statements have Hulk as one of the most powerful beings in the Universe. I'm sure you disagree with this. Let's see those showings.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver, hey, Carver, WW has awesome combat speed feats!! What does BM have??Travel speed.
BUT:
🙂
In one scenario, travel speed is perfectly A-OK to use. In another, BOO Travel speed bad!
In the same thread I admitted WW is faster. Read what I said.
Never said travel speed is ok. What are you talking about? My argument for yrs have been AGAINST travel speed. You should know this.
Originally posted by carver9
Show me that in character of Doomsday blitzing across a battle field at the speeds you're mentioning. I want to see fts, not statements. Statements have Hulk as one of the most powerful beings in the Universe. I'm sure you disagree with this. Let's see those showings.
He's blitzed Superman. Blitzed Guy (who has CAUGHT, not just flown, but CAUGHT) ships at warp speed.
Both those guys have their speed feats. The Superman of that era has speed feats of his own, DESPITE your attempts at lowballing. I've posted them already.
I know, I know, forum rules etc. But the rules specifically say Superman is not to be used for ILLOGICAL power-scaling.
And as the guy who has done what no other character has done before or since, i.e. beat him to death, I think power-scaling - SPECIFICALLY because he explicitly commented on his speed - is not illogical, and thus, valid to be used.
I mean, he even catches a 'serious' WW out of midair and smacks her about - and I am sure I don't need to post her feats:
In the Blue Marvel/WW thread, I argued that we can't power-scale off battles, because characters don't always fight 'seriously'.
But Superman was beaten to death. WW EXPLICITLY says she's NOT holding back, and giving no quarter.
Didn't help.
Originally posted by carver9
In the same thread I admitted WW is faster. Read what I said.Never said travel speed is ok. What are you talking about? My argument for yrs have been AGAINST travel speed. You should know this.
So why in a speed argument, did you post a travel speed feat? did you think the thread was a race 😂
Originally posted by darthgoober
Very possible lol. It's seldom that I even actually read new comics that come out because I got tired of the nonsense
"Too recent, doesn't count."
"Too old, doesn't count."
KMC at its absolute best... 😖hifty:
PS. Classic Murdock grabbed Classic Norrin with his legs... Sonya Blade style... and knocked him off that stupid gay board, too.
Surfer was just made to suffer.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's blitzed Superman. Blitzed Guy (who has CAUGHT, not just flown, but CAUGHT) ships at warp speed.Both those guys have their speed feats. The Superman of that era has speed feats of his own, DESPITE your attempts at lowballing. I've posted them already.
I know, I know, forum rules etc. But the rules specifically say Superman is not to be used for ILLOGICAL power-scaling.
And as the guy who has done what no other character has done before or since, i.e. beat him to death, I think power-scaling - SPECIFICALLY because he explicitly commented on his speed - is not illogical, and thus, valid to be used.
I mean, he even catches a 'serious' WW out of midair and smacks her about - and I am sure I don't need to post her feats:
In the Blue Marvel/WW thread, I argued that we can't power-scale off battles, because characters don't always fight 'seriously'.
But Superman was beaten to death. WW EXPLICITLY says she's NOT holding back, and giving no quarter.
Didn't help.
Just like I've said about Gladiator, Hyperion, Black Adam, Captain Marvel, etc... Wonder Woman isnt unhittable. You can not automatically say people are super fast when they are tagging people with speed. You must've forgotten who Damage had gone fist cuff against. You must've forgotten about this showing...
And yes, Gladiator was trying to kill Hulk, a weakened Hulk. Then we have the showing where they fought again, Incredible Hulk vs Gladiator #3 and Hulk completely dominated Gladiator while catching his punch. Is Hulk light speed now? Or Hulk showing against Hyperion where he out reacted him and both if these characters have light speed showings. I'm asking. What showings do you have of Doomsday to make you believe he can blitz Surfer across an entire battlefield before he can react?