Originally posted by OualladaI have found some time between a couple of reports, so I shall rewrite my last post.
Firstly, using power unwisely and not using power optimally are not the same things. Even if I had optimal control of the IG, I could use said power to wreak havoc, thus being unwise from a conventional point of view.
Secondly, if Spectre at FP = God, according to yourself (a view I do not necessarily subscribe to), the scan you showed is kind of useless, unless you are arguing that Spectre could have been at full potential during COIE.
Guess where the term "jobbing" comes from?
Let me break your reasoning down. Your reasoning is that a character is jobbing when he is defeated even though he is in possession of greater abilities than his opponent. Power levels count here, not power sets. We have both agreed that the omnipotent Spectre was > AM, and the very notion of omnipotence means that his power level was higher than that of any other DC being save God. However, he failed to beat AM (we could count this as a loss because he was assigned to beat AM, and failed in his objective) even with the higher power level. That in itself constitutes jobbing even by your own definition.
However, saying that a character is jobbing when defeated without using his full range of abilities is erroneous. If J'onn loses to a top tier without using the 1001 abilities he has, can you really call that jobbing? If he gets one-shotted by DS without using an exotic power, is that jobbing? I think we can both see that the questions are rhetorical. Full usage of power sets only matter when versatility is necessary (see SS/lanterns vs doomsday) or when a certain power affects a battle drastically (k-nite manipulation vs superman). In any other situation, power levels take precedence over usage of power sets.
I remember an arc during the Corrigan times when he became one with all. I was referring to the scans you used to show the Spectre with godhood. Are they the same?
I have polished your definition and shown you why Soectre was jobbing even by your definition.
Hmmm, that's an easy one. You initially used a version of Spectre who was claimed to be "omnipotent", have "limitless power" and who was one of Spectre's most powerful versions, said that AM stalemated with it and then postulated that AM could beat LT. Stalemating Spectre was obviously AM's best feat, but that is a Spectre was omnipotent yet jobbing (my view) or unable to use his power properly (your view). I have already asked where COIE spectre then stands on the power scale, but you were unable to answer because you could not make the assumptions necessary to answer. However, I do not recall any discourses on ambiguity when you reasoned that a being that stalemated the COIE spectre could draw with or beat the LT. It's still a good showing, a very good showing, but Abraxas has some pretty damn impressive showings as well, and he will never come close to the IG, much less the LT.
Let me rehash once again.
Spectre while jobbing/cumbered = AM (for that one showing)
Thus, AM >= LT? (even while considering the trouble DS/Luthor/supergirl/top tiers/shadow poisoning managed to cause?)
I think you can understand that AM >= LT is blatantly ridiculous.
Barring any exceptional circumstances, this will be my last post on this matter. Newcomers will believe what they will from our debate, and others will carry on believing what they believe. Nice debate, though.
Originally posted by quanchi112True, although the AM in that form was still a Multiversal entity. It took a series of intricate battle plans to kill him, and even while severely weakened, he survived being put in a White Star.
Yes but Am still could be weakened enough by attacks to eventually be oneshotted by Superman. 😛
Originally posted by Dark-JaxxIll give you that.
True, although the AM in that form was still a Multiversal entity. It took a series of intricate battle plans to kill him, and even while severely weakened, he survived being put in a White Star.
Am amped was a beast but not a beast who could defeat the Lt who is an even bigger beast.
Originally posted by Sirius77Nope. Marvel Cosmics generally>DC, and LT>Spectre even with the upgrades. Also, if I recall, Spectre in that form was overpowering AM.
So then the fact that the am stalemated the full powered specter, second to god combined with every dc mystic in the remaining multiverse means nothing to you.