Despite the...contents...of the track, I must say there is some truth to the "ARE YOU SOME KIND OF BIGOT?" part.
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1052/1052_01.asp
Similarly, mixed in with the...contents...of this track, there lies some truth.
However, Jack Chick is a skilled writer and debater--I recently read an article of his about why Christians shouldn't play D&D. Though I don't agree with him, he raised some very valid points.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Despite the...contents...of the track, I must say there is some truth to the "ARE YOU SOME KIND OF BIGOT?" part.http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1052/1052_01.asp
Similarly, mixed in with the...contents...of this track, there lies some truth.
However, Jack Chick is a skilled writer and debater--I recently read an article of his about why Christians shouldn't play D&D. Though I don't agree with him, he raised some very valid points.
He might have a bit more success of he didn't go so over the top and make such an effort to demonize groups.
Things wrong with the above images
- He has demons sitting on the gay mens heads.
- For some reason he has bent reality to have gays being gays in class. Seeing the whohaa caused by a school simply having a book that has a line "And this is my friend John, he has two dads" I find it hard to believe it ever happening in the situation above. It is 100% conciet so he can make a baseless argument in a context that will get people angry.
- The gays are saying "Put him in an asylum" which is funny as gays are usually accepting of the term "queers" these days, many using it themselves. These gays do not act as most gays do.
- Just like the evolution one you have a teacher acting in an inappropriate, monstrous way. Teachers do not behave like that.
- While it is fair to question political correctness they have a way of twisting it around - clearly oblivious to the amount of bigotry their own tracts usually contain.
What I have found with tracts is their authors are unable to make their point with any actual debate so they take the ones they are attacking to extreme caricatures, and blend it in with falsity and misinterpretation. As for his D&D rant it was nothing I have never seen before, and often filled with a similar level of ignorance and blind certainty that many others have used against it in the past. A person can argue anything it seems, with the right blend of words and conviction, doesn't make it right.
Originally posted by Bardock42
What proof do you have that after death we judge ourselves and can go to a beautiful place though?
Hades (Hell) is a holding place, a prison; but a place of torment as well that was originally created for the devil and his angels (demons). But hell is also a place of disembodied spirits of people who have died in their sins. These people's unforgiven sins are what keep them from God's presence. That's why God sent His only begotten Son to die for the sins of the whole world so that we could go into God's presence when we die instead of to Hades (Hell).
Acts 2:31
he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His [Jesus the Christ’s] soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
Jesus soul was not left in Hades (Hell) because God the Father raised Him (Jesus) from the dead. Hell is the place of the dead who die in their sins. Jesus died for the world's sin and thus was consigned to Hades (Hell) in our place (i.e. for us). He suffered the consequence of our sins for us so that we would not have to. I am not going to Hell because I have put my faith in Jesus;
I believe Jesus and the Holy Bible.
There is a Heaven to gain and a Hell to avoid.
I am on my way to Heaven thanks to Jesus.
Jesus went to Hell and He went there for all people so that we would not have to go. All we have to do is place our faith (trust) in Him for salvation, and sincerely admit that we are sinners. Whoever calls on the Name of the Lord (Jesus) will be saved (from Hell).
Acts 2:22-32
22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:
‘ I foresaw the LORD always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’
29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
Can I just reiterate one more time JIA that the Bible does not qualify as "proof" - it is a claim. To verify a claim you need proof. A claim does not verify itself by its own claim.
"The Bible tells us this. How do I know this is true? Because the Bible says it."
That is claiming a claim is true because it claims it is. What you need to start doing is:
"The Bible tells us this. How do I know this is true? *Provides proof* Which supports what the Bible says."
Originally posted by Bardock42
What proof do you have that after death we judge ourselves and can go to a beautiful place though?
I never said anything about us judging ourselves, and all of the proof that I need is God's Word.
The Rich Man and Lazarus (a true account of one man’s experience in Hell)
Luke 16:19-31
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades,
he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 “Then he cried and said,
‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send
Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But
Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise
Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29
Abraham said to him, ‘They have
Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear
Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”
John 1:17
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
John 5:43-47
43 I (Jesus the Christ) have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45
Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
This sounds nothing like any of the general, unspecific parables that Jesus told. Go back and read all of the parables of Jesus. Not ONCE did Jesus mention a proper name. Jesus was always GENERAL and UNSPECIFIC. But this is the ONE TIME that Jesus is VERY SPECIFIC. That is because this is A TRUE ACCOUNT of one man's experience in Hell (Hades).
WHAT DID JESUS SAY ABOUT HELL (HADES)?
Mark 9:39, 43-48
39 But
Jesus said…
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 44 where
‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.
45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 46 where
‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— 48 where
‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
Jesus talked about Hell so I am satisfied and convinced that it is a literal place of torment.
p.s. now Jesus is speaking metaphorically. Jesus does not want you to cut off any part of your body. Can you see the difference?
THE OLD TESTAMENT
The Old Testament was written in the Hebrew language with some portions in Aramaic. The Hebrew word for Hell is “Sheol.” Let’s see what this word really means.
Sheol (Hell)
07585-sh@'owl {sheh-ole'} or sh@ol {sheh-ole'}
1) sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit
a) the underworld
b) Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
1) place of no return
2) without praise of God
3) wicked sent there for punishment
4) righteous not abandoned to it
5) of the place of exile (fig)
6) of extreme degradation in sin
The word Hell is a place of torment no matter which language that it is translated in. Just because in Hebrew the word Hell is translated as Sheol does not negate the existence of Hell, it is just called by another name. For instance, the phrase “United States” is translated as “Los Estados Unidos” in Spanish, but the United States is STILL a literal place. Well, Hell is translated as “Sheol” in the Hebrew language, but Hell is STILL a literal place of torment.
THE NEW TESTAMENT
The New Testament was written in the Greek language. The Greek word for Hell is “Hades.” Let’s see what this word really means.
Hell (Hades)
86-hades {hah'-dace}
1) name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
2) Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
3) later use of this word: the grave, death, hell
++++
In Biblical Greek it is associated with Orcus, the infernal regions, a dark and dismal place in the very depths of the earth, the common receptacle of disembodied spirits. Usually Hades is just the abode of the wicked, Lu. 16:23, Rev. 20:13,14; a very uncomfortable place. TDNT.
( 2.) The Greek word hades of the New Testament has the same scope of signification as sheol of the Old Testament. It is a prison ( 1Pe 3:19), with gates and bars and locks ( Mat 16:18; Rev 1:18), and it is downward ( Mat 11:23; Luk 10:15).
Did you get that, “The Greek word Hades of the New Testament has the same scope of signification as Sheol of the Old Testament…” The two words are a reference to the SAME PLACE OF TORMENT, they’re just translated into two different languages.[/color]
DID MOSES TALK ABOUT HELL?
Deuteronomy 32:22
For a fire is kindled in My anger,And shall burn to the lowest
hell; It shall consume the earth with her increase, And set on fire the foundations of the mountains
Moses is the author of the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy).Moses does mention Hell (Sheol) however Moses had an entirely different assignment: to lead God's people from Egypt and then give them the law from God.
John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
WHAT DID MOSES SAY ABOUT JESUS?
Deuteronomy 18:15-18
15 “
The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, 16 according to all you desired of the LORD your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’
17
“And the LORD said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him.The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him.
There you have it. Moses declared that God would raise up a Prophet like him, and Him (Jesus) we should hear. Moses referred to Jesus Christ Who was not only a Prophet and Teacher but God in the flesh.
The Lord Jesus Christ is greater than Moses. You see, Moses wrote about Jesus and even talked to Him on the mountain where Christ was transfigured. But, Christ is God in human form, Moses is just a man. Christ Jesus talked about Hell and this is sufficient. I care more about what God says than what man (Moses) says. No disrespect to Moses, he had his place and mission. But God (Jesus Christ) is the Word made flesh. The Bible--the living, Word of God--says that God has spoken to us in these last days by His Son (Jesus).
The Israelites lived under a totally different dispensation (i.e., period of God's dealing with humanity regarding sin). Jesus Christ had not yet come to Earth to die for the sins of the world. Remember,
John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses,
but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
We live in what is commonly referred to as the age of grace. Grace is unmerited, undeserved, mercy extended to us by God. God had appointed a set time when He would send His Son into the world to preach the Kingdom of God and repentance from sin. At the time Moses lived they simply were concerned with keeping God's laws to maintain fellowship and favor with Him. The worst thing for them was getting stoned to death. But under this dispensation of grace now God commands people everywhere to repent from sin and turn to Jesus Christ for salvation. That is why Jesus preached the gospel of the Kingdom of God and why Moses didn’t. It was not time for that. It was not Moses’ “thrust” or “calling.” God primarily waited until Jesus came on the scene to command people everywhere to REPENT from sins and to turn toward God.
Acts 17:30-31
Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked
, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man [Jesus Christ] whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
Originally posted by FeceMan
Well, yes, he does go to great lengths to demonize them, which is why I was talking about the "contents" of the tract. I read his rebuttals to a large of amount of protests against his D&D article written by D&D players (not the original article, so I can't comment on that).
I'll never forget the absurdity of this Tract on the subject - it is so stupid and false it really isn't funny. Anyone who comes up with such idiocy and takes it seriously does not go into my books as anything approaching a reasonable, intelligent debator.
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp
As to his article - it relies far to much on the idea that it is somehow real - and not just a game. Amongst many other things, such as leading them down dark paths and all that. Which shouldn't matter. If D&D gives them an interest in studying some aspect of the occult fine.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I'll never forget the absurdity of this Tract on the subject - it is so stupid and false it really isn't funny. Anyone who comes up with such idiocy and takes it seriously does not go into my books as anything approaching a reasonable, intelligent debator.http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp
As to his article - it relies far to much on the idea that it is somehow real - and not just a game. Amongst many other things, such as leading them down dark paths and all that. Which shouldn't matter. If D&D gives them an interest in studying some aspect of the occult fine.
Didn't Christians used to burn witches alive ?
Now we just write comic books against them ? 😆
Originally posted by crazySum it up for you huh?
How about you sum it up for me without scriptures in between all your words.And let me ask you something, would you really like for there to be a hell? Bible aside of course.
I believe Jesus and the Holy Bible.
There is a Heaven to gain and a Hell to avoid.
I am on my way to Heaven thanks to Jesus.
Originally posted by crazy
Did not answer my second question though... So you think those links that whoever posted questioning hell in CHristianity are all 100 percent false and have no validity?
The Bible is validity and proof enough: God said it; therefore, it is Truth.
It does not matter whether I think there should be a Hell. There is a Hell whether I believe this or not.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Sum it up for you huh?I believe Jesus and the Holy Bible.
There is a Heaven to gain and a Hell to avoid.
I am on my way to Heaven thanks to Jesus.
Is it possible for you to absolutely know the fate of other people? I'm glad the you feel like your world is complete. I just want you to know that my world is just as perfect as yours.
PS. I know you will not answer this question, you never answer any other of my questions.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Bible is validity and proof enough: God said it; therefore, it is Truth.It does not matter whether I think there should be a Hell. There is a Hell whether I believe this or not.
1) We have no proof God had ne thing to do with the Bible.
2) We have proof that man wrote the Bible.
3) We have evidense that man is fallible.
4) We have proof that men lie.
5) We have much reason to beleive the Bible is full of lies.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Bible is validity and proof enough: God said it; therefore, it is Truth.It does not matter whether I think there should be a Hell. There is a Hell whether I believe this or not.
No isn't. It is hard to debate if I you are ignoring me, which I am not sure of - but as I said before:
The Bible is a claim. It is a theory. It puts forward its claim on what is what. That does make its claim true.
Proof, independent proof, is needed. The Bible claims something and claims it is true because it says it. That does not work, except if a person is willing to take an ignorant stance. A prosecution lawyer can not stand up in court and say "This man is guilty, and you know this is true because I am saying it." It Does NOT work that way.
Now you can say "I believe the claim the Bible is making" - but do not assume that it is proof, or that others are unreasonable for asking for proof. It is not proof to say "The Bible says it, so it must be true" - because their is no proof that God did any of this, other then the Bibles claims. It just doesn't work. Faith is fine, but some people want more then faith. You can have faith, but it doesn't work claiming that faith is proof.