Where did I say this? And did it ever occur to you that before I joined this forum I thoroughly read 5-10 pages? I don't have to prove to you that I am not tdtd, but any idiot can look at the date of every thread made, and you seem to be the one that posts the most. So in conclusion, continue your nut flexing and self pwnage, I'm enjoying it.
Originally posted by Escape81
Well, in all fairness, Exar Kun's spirit put Luke Skywalker in a coma (though I don't know if this was before or after he possessed Kyp).
That wasn't Kun's spirit alone. It was either Kun and Kyp vs Luke (JA trilogy version) or Kun possessing Kyp - and in this case Kun had access to the second greatest potential of the NJO which is quite heavy considering that you have three "grandchildren" of the force belonging to that order.
And, like I said, I don't deny that Ragnos was immensely powerful or the most powerful of the Ancient Sith. But just because he was the most powerful of the Ancient Sith doesn't mean that he's more powerful than every other Sith. One could interpret that Ragnos was the most powerful of the Ancient times, Kun was the most powerful of the times in between, and Sidious has already been labeled as "the most powerful practitioner of the Sith ways in modern times", which you yourself have agreed with.
The point is the logic behind certain statements.
As we know "power" in terms of the "force" is basically determined by
a) knowledge
b) time to study the knowledge (or experience)
c) raw force powers / potential
If you know compare two force users some advantage in one of these points can already lead to the defeat in a battle.
For example we almost certainly know that Kun did have less (or at best equal) knowledge compared to Ragnos and by far less time to study it - so if Anderson thinks Kun is superior to Ragnos this can only mean that (in Andersons mind) Kun had a greater force potential compared to Kun.
The same situation we already had between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Obi-Wan had more knowledge and a greater time to study it - Anakin had the greater potential. But in this situation Obi-Wan won. We've seen it the other way around when Anakin was fighting Dooku.
And if you now put Sidious against Kun or Ragnos who can say who would win ? The guy who had the most knowledge, the guy who had most time to study the Dark Side or the guy who (possibly) had the greatest amount of force potential ? I believe they would pretty much negate each other in terms of force powers and be forced to find out who's the strongest using their weapons - and this is something Sidious is not the best in.
As for Kreia's comments, that is another thing. I consider Kreia and Revan to be pretty powerful (and Ragnos to be superior to her and him) but, again, that doesn't automatically imply that he is more powerful than Sidious or Kun, whom I consider to be a few steps above either Kreia or Revan.
The point is that Kreia never mentions Kun even though she's old enough to have witnessed Kun and his actions personally. Instead she always praises the Ancients and Revan. Of course this is no proof that Revan or Ragnos were more powerful than Kun but I guess (using in universe terms) that a Sith Witch who is known for studying the history of the Sith from different sources would give more accurate comments on their powerlevel than historians telling their story 5,000 years after the persons lived.
But the Jedi Academy video game doesn't make Ragnos out to be "more powerful" than Kun. Luke knows next to nothing about Ragnos when he makes the assertion that "it could take the entire Academy to stop Ragnos". Perhaps he is right. But perhaps he isn't.
On the other hand it didn't take the entire Academy to defeat DE Sidious...and I was thinking more about the KotoR games than JK:JA.
And are you sure that Luke did know next to nothing about Ragnos ? After the Great Hyperspace War the Jedi had enough time to gather some informations about the Sith.
It did take Luke's Academy to expel Exar Kun's spirit into oblivion.
Yes. But JK:JA happened years after Luke installed the Academy on Yavin 4 and we saw that he had much more students even one year after Kun (Leviathan).
As for Palpatine, when Brand intercepted his spirit he told Luke that - "Palpatine will never return. The Force - and the Jedi before us - will see to that."
The point is that Brand was able to intercept Sidious spirit at all. He was already just a shadow of his former self if you consider that he lost even more of his original body than Vader did (including massive lose of midi-chlorians and force powers) and he wasn't exactly one of the most powerful people in the PT.
One could interpret that as all the Jedi before Luke and Brand would be required to hold Palpatine's spirit into oblivion.
This could be done. But remember that Yoda himself was almost equal to Sidious and he was one of the "Jedi before us". Don't forget we're talking about Sidious spirit VS Jedi spirits here.
We simply don't know with Ragnos's spirit, which, again - was expelled (though not to oblivion) by one Jedi, who - despite being called "a promising student" has ambiguous power levels. We don't know how powerful Jaden Korr is, but he was still able to defeat Tavion (even when Tavion was possessed by Ragnos) and forced Ragnos's spirit to flee.Furthermore, when Kun possessed Kyp, Kyp showed more power than Tavion ever did.
You're forgetting that Kyp had far more potential than all other of Luke's students given what he was able to do with the force while Tavion wasn't exactly the greatest force prodigy. Hence Kun had a greater "power source" to use. And I find it pretty obvious that Ragnos had his powers limited either by possessing a minor force user or because he was a spirit freshly summoned from the grave.
See, now I can actually go along with that. But my point is that I don't consider the Ancient Sith "teh uber", save for a few, unless they have their technological goodies to assist them.
Who said that the Ancient Sith all were "teh uber" save from a few ? I wouldn't say that the people aside from Simus, Ragnos, Sadow and Kressh (+Adas, Pall and Hord maybe) did impress me at all. I mean...people like Dor Gal-Ram surely weren't the top of the "Sith food chain".
Palpatine couldn't blow up a planet, which is why he designed those super weapons to compensate for a power that he didn't possess himself.
Except the fact that he didn't design those weapons. He told other people to do so. And still I don't see why he shouldn't create (partitially) force based weapons (like Sadow's ship) instead of wasting resources and time for research and development.
Hmm. Perhaps so. But the sourcebooks, Essentially Chronologies, and all of that are what we all base our arguments on. The works of these authors, so they have to count for something.
Basically it's like interpreting the bible (this example only works for Christians): You have God (Lucas) having a thought. Than the Bible author (source author) comes in and tries to interprete God's thought. Then another author (Sourcebook / Chronology author) comes in and tries to interprete the interpretation of God's original thought. In how many cases would this lead to something that matches God's original thought exactly ?
Just several things:
Had Kreia ever met Kun face to face?
Brand was near dying and becoming one with the Force...of course h found some hidden inner power, the force itself was propelling the man,
It also took practically the entire light to stop Sidious in DE and it made it clear that just fighting him wouldn't work...remember? You can't fight when the Sith have made the war their weapon.
And there's no reason Ragnos would've been weak...he'd been summoned already and had just received a boost from the scepter.
Why many of you cannot think to the possibilty,that Sidious' Eclipses I and II are real dark side amping devices?
I mean it is really obvious that many of his god-like feats can revolve around his Eclipses. He performed after all those feats in his battleships,like Force storms(wormholes) or Byss' draining(20 or 40 billions)
I mean it is quite obvious even if it isn't stated in the Dark Empire comics.
And when Sidious' holografic presence created a Force storm(Whirlwind+Force lightning) on Vjun,was because the planet was a dark side nexus too.
The dark side could easily be channeled through something by the use of dark-side-aligned objects or items, which Sidious had and could easily acquire from planets like Korriban or Vjun.
Also, considering that the Eclipse is like a miniature Death Star, it could easily create disturbances in the Force/rifts that can easily channel the Force through it. Given in the same comic book series he used cloning technology to cheat death. I can't see why he wouldn't create a flagship that would amp up his dark side powers?
Like I said, why the heck not? The ship is already a stupid huge fanboy supership with a death star superlaser and magically piloted yet unpiloted superTIEs, so why can't it have magic Force amplifying powers too? I really dislike this ship and the entire comic it's from.
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Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I didn't understand that post.
This dude is so right,but none wants to aknowledge his statements.
"There's no most powerful Sith from history IMHO"
Why?
Because the universe is infinite... Who knows how far the Sith reached,and what monsters and warriors had created.
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