^^ Yes........that is an exellent idea........the writers are not stupid, they know about other successful trilogys, and they know what star wars did to get their amazing fan base.......and the SW fans love the fact that they made 2 trilogys....it's a win-win situation for everybody involed with the POTC movies....
Originally posted by blackpearl44
^^ Yes........that is an exellent idea........the writers are not stupid, they know about other successful trilogys, and they know what star wars did to get their amazing fan base.......and the SW fans love the fact that they made 2 trilogys....it's a win-win situation for everybody involed with the POTC movies....
So SO true. I mean its going to be weird if they end it with Will/Liz back together and then start a new trilogy involving the three characters again..it will be like " will/liz and jack on his own?...*sigh* been there, done that, BORING" It needs to start different from the first movie if all 3 are going to be in the next lot of films.
I mean whats the point in repeating things if you are moving forward in a story?
Yeh agreed^^
I was just thinking. Tia seems to be a woman Jack respects because she is a free thinker and has probably beaten him at his own game in the past(she doesn't slap him) She might also have been Davy's lover.
If the story of Will/Davy do echo each other then What if its Jack who caused both women to break free from a life of restriction? Maybe Jack attracted Tia to a free life just like Liz. After all Liz is also a woman who is a free thinker and has beaten him at his own game and I think Jack respects her for it. So that makes her and Tia more similar. and that makes the Davy/Will thing more mirrored too.
Jack has also slept with her I'm assuming, after what she said to him in that scene.
It would mean less plot holes if that was the case..
If that makes sense
Look it is clear now (since I watched Pirates 2 again) that Elizabeth wanted to be rid of Jack. When the Kraken was attacking Jack left the Black Pearl and it did not follow; it continued attacking the Pearl.
So it was clear that the Kraken would have attacked the Pearl instead of going after them so Elizabeth left Jack for really no reason.
yeah it all doesnt make a load of sense- it keeps us guessing, which is fine in a way. 🙂 i like to come up with theories.
i dont think Liz was trying to be rid of Jack, but she also was trying to save some lives, be a free-spirit, be a pirate, etc. and she liked it. but its like anything- the second you get physical with someone, everything becomes complicated....
i dont think Will will ultimately end up bad. some bad stuff might happen, but i think this will end somewhat happily... just my opinion...
ESB - 1138
If she hated him and wanted to be rid of him then WHY would she be showing that she is falling for him THROUGHOUT the entire film? Why did she show so much admiration that he came back and saved the day and then want to be rid of him? why did she lean in as if to kiss him again after she chained him up if she wanted to be rid of him?
The reason she did it was because she wanted the thrill. Jack said she would do it and that she would ENJOY DOING IT. She gave into the urge that was boiling up in her throughout the entire movie.Yes she knew they could have all gotten away(she saw him leave without the kraken chasing him) but oh no..she selfishly wanted the ultimate thrill of betraying Jack. She was getting off on doing it to him and he was getting off on the situation too, you can tell he loved it because he was SMILING..He knew he had won her over. She loved the fact he called her a pirate..its what she wants to be.
She also kissed him there because she DIDNT get the kiss she wanted from him in the Curiosity scene..OH YES she wanted it there, she looked dissapointed that he pulled away.
The reasons you say she did it for(to be rid of Jack) COMPLETLEY contradict everything that was happening between the two throughout the ENTIRE Movie..she was turning into a pirate and falling for Jack and what he wanted of her.... If she wanted to be "rid of him" then that ending wouldn't make any sense to the middle of the film.
It wouldnt make sense of the curiosity scene, the compass scenes, the sexual suggestion scene, The very fact liz has changed into a pirate.. if she betrayed him because she hated him and wanted to be rid of him..then WHY are those contradicting scenes/character developments IN the movie?
yeah i just read that director interview again. i love him. seriously. its so true- i love an honest thief, and its the big corporation that really scares me.
k, i'm just going to get this out and then let it be. I am very excited to see how Will's character is going to start developing into a more "davy jones" character.... HOWEVER< i dont think he is going to turn out the same. i think this is going to be a story of redemption on many levels. The redemption of the broken heart, the redemption of Liz's nature, the redemption of the honest thief... etc. We're going to see all the pirates pitted against a foe they wont know how to beat--- because it cant be personal on any level. so when they come through, they are all going to be 100% different, IMO. I bet Liz will turn into a pirate lord herself, whoever she ends up with. I think we are going to see Jack as way more influential and powerful than we have seen him before. I think we are going to see Will go to some scary, dark places with himself. The director keeps referring to "the pirate lords" so the story is really expanding, alleigances are going to be pushed to the limits.
I am so excited. i cant wait. 🙂 i've decided im going to love it no matter what, and enjoy it for what it is, a movie! 🙂
Jack has been an honest thief throughout the all of the movies^^ He doesn't need redemption.
I cant see Liz changing back. Characters aren't supposed to change back in a trilogy..sure there is a new equilibrium but its not the SAME equilibrium. Otherwise that makes the whole middle chunk of the trilogy pointless. In trilogies and even in single films you don't ever see the characters change back to exactly how they were..The whole point of a quest is to set out experience hardships and develop as a character by the time the end comes..you cant go back when the story is supposed to be moving forward. The quest tests them and changes them.
If everyone else went back to exactly how they started then what was the point of having a middle of a story? It would make the hardships absolutley pointless...they might as well not even bothered making a trilogy..The characters should have stayed at home instead of even bothering to set out if things wern't going to change.
I can understand Liz hating Jack and wanting to be rid of him if she truly hated the thought of becoming a pirate and was showing that she hated it throughout the movie but she didn't.
She clearly lapped it all up..following master pirate Jack around like a love sick puppy. She was in denial a few times about actually liking the lifestyle but it was clear she did.
The entire movie shows us that she LOVES the lifestyle, she wants to taste it..she quite literally did by wanting to kiss AND actually kissing someone who resembles the Ultimate Pirate/lifestyle. Which all of a sudden makes that whole line of her's "You're going to want to know what it tastes like" all the more significant..she was talking about herself and not Jack.
She's not what she claims to be at this point in the movie (moral centered) as she is basically being unfaithful to Will by trying to make Jack kiss her. So what she says to Jack here about wanting to be moral makes no sense. She herself doesn't resemble that here. Its really about her wanting to taste Jack's life and thats why she goes in to kiss and is secretly dissapointed that he doesn't.
Thanks^^
Hmm i need to rephrase what I said before..its hard to explain.
During the curiosity scene Liz is telling Jack he wants to be moral but SHE, herself is acting completley imoral by trying to make Jack kiss her whilst she's involved with Will. Meaning she doesnt really want him to be acting with honor. So it dissapoints her that he "does" at the end of that scene. Well at least she thinks he does.
...It symbolises that she's not really speaking about HIS wants..its subconciously about her own wants "she wants to know what it tastes like" and she clearly did judging by the end of that scene.
Also it has a double meaning..Tasting Jack means tasting what its like to be a pirate.
We all know that Liz doesnt really want the honest life so what she is telling Jack there is a complete lie as was the "I'm proud of you Jack" line..That whole honesty speech was one big coverup so she felt she had an excuse to be naughty... She was trying to make it seem like it was about honor when in reality it was about being bad.
DAMN its so hard to explain..I still dont even think I have explained what I really mean.
^^ Yes, that is a good explaination.......she is really explaining her own wants, and hoping Jack will be able to figure it out, because she knows he is smart.........and I think Jack knows....but I think he is a bit in denial because he thinks he is too hard core and to tough to actually love someone becaus he knoes he is the greatest pirate....
haha no i totally agree with you about what Liz wants.... i didnt mean redemption as far as her going back to how she was, but her going forward into who she will really be, instead of her trying to walk this shaky line of staying true to Will while flirting with what she really wants. I think she will be going forward and lose the confusion that plagued her in this film--- she will decide what she wants and hopefully get it! 🙂
I KNOW that Peas in a Pod... sooooo lovely. and itwas what, like 2 seconds long? should have been kept. seriously.
Yeh exactly. That whole jack thing sounds right Blackpearl44
If what she really supports is "honor" and "moral standards", then why do her actions in that scene show the complete opposite? Answer: Its not what she really stands for deep down and its not what she really wants from Jack. She wants a taster of HIS lifestyle. Its all a coverup.
It shows that all her "stuck up, I'm above you" "you want to do the right thing" speeches to him are all just an ACT/denial. They are her desperate attempts to cover up what she really wants from Jack.
I also notice that her gaurd drops a little bit more with every Jack/Liz moment during the movie.
The first time where he suggests sex to her..she coveres it up well with a look of disgust "I would NEVER i'm to honorable for that!"..but secretly smiles when she thinks no one is looking
The second time, she pretends that she means one thing when she really wants another and almost kisses him. She still manages to save herself from what she just did by saying "I'm proud of you jack" If she had kissed him right here..then I DOUBT she would have chained him to the ship later on..the kiss was intterupted for that reason. It was meant to be there where she finally gave in..but it was stopped. Which made the temptation build up a whole lot more andit exploded later on with drastic conciquinces.
The final time..She gives into it completley. It was overdue and building up throughout the entire movie (that may be why her actions where so drastic)..all temptation building up finally overtook her, made her cross the line. She tries to cover up by saying "I'm doing it for the others" But No..it doesnt work this time..she gives in, all the denial is shed and she says "I'm not sorry" (NOW THATS A TRUE PIRATE) she wants to be officially called pirate by Jack before she goes.