Anyone Changing Their Mind

Originally posted by Nellinator
I was just wondering if anyone on the site has changed their religous beliefs based on what they have read on this website? It doesn't seem likely, but it would be interesting to know if this forum even serves a real purpose.

Hmm..I had my doubts about Buddhism. I originally thought that it was mostly comprised of delusional - ignorant - misguided people. Upon speaking to several members on this forum, however, all doubts have been erased..He..He.He...

And that is indeed the absolute truth...but I still wish them much happiness...😉

Originally posted by Nellinator
I was just wondering if anyone on the site has changed their religous beliefs based on what they have read on this website? It doesn't seem likely, but it would be interesting to know if this forum even serves a real purpose.

I believe I am less Agnostic and more Atheist then when I began, but that isn't a big change as I have always been borderline between the two.

But I have learnt plenty, and seen some interesting views.

"I am as agnostic about God as I am about fairies and the Flying Spaghetti Monster."
Nothing presented to me on KMC has changed this view. Although I'm open to possibilities, plausibilities are more relevant to the everyday.

Originally posted by Echuu
I like this forum but I don't think people show much respect to others.

Coming on these forums has enlightened me very much.

It has shown me the amounts of Hate that can stem from all sides of the spectrum of belief..whether it be Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Agnosticism, or Athiesm...ignorance is a very common factor, and intolerance is very abundant among all sides.

I have found that Buddhism spawns the kindest and most confident aspects of a person. While Christians, Muslims, Jews, Agnostics, and Athiest are VERY QUICK to insult each other and put each other down, I have found that almost every Buddhist on this thread has never engaged in negative input or the attacking of another person.

Buddhists always seem content, while Christians and Muslims often seem insecure about thier own beleifs. Athiests seem very very very fed up and intolerant of religion as a whole....And some Jews on this forum don't even know where they really stand. But somehow, Buddhists seem not only so content and secure in thier religion, but seem to be some of the most logical people as well.

This forum has given me a great impression of Buddhism in general. Unfortunately, it has given me a very bad impression of Christianity, especially Evangelism. I am sad to say that these forums have only confirmed my previous suspicions....that most Christians are not only close minded, but willfully ignorant. And then some other Christians are just plain hateful.

I have met many Christians on these forums who have been some of the most wondorful people....but sadly, they are overshadowed and outnumbered by the Christians of ignorance, hate, and intolerance.

Same goes for Athiests...many Athiests on these forums also happen to be very intolerant of religion and even agnosticism, claiming that agnostics don't know where to stand.

And even more surprising to me is how ignorant many Athiests actually are. While many Christians, Jews, and Muslims will argue all based on personal beleif, and very often willfully ignore Facts that contradict thier point of view, Athiests will often SHOOT DOWN any point of view that is based on personal beleif, and which cannot be proven.

It is wrong on both ends, and Minds need to open. I am speaking to myself as well. We all need to open our minds and see that what we beleive is nothing more than beleifs.

The wisest person is the one who realizes they do not know all, and cherishes the perspective of others.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Coming on these forums has enlightened me very much.

It has shown me the amounts of Hate that can stem from all sides of the spectrum of belief..whether it be Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Agnosticism, or Athiesm...ignorance is a very common factor, and intolerance is very abundant among all sides.

I have found that [b]Buddhism spawns the kindest and most confident aspects of a person. While Christians, Muslims, Jews, Agnostics, and Athiest are VERY QUICK to insult each other and put each other down, I have found that almost every Buddhist on this thread has never engaged in negative input or the attacking of another person.

Buddhists always seem content, while Christians and Muslims often seem insecure about thier own beleifs. Athiests seem very very very fed up and intolerant of religion as a whole....And some Jews on this forum don't even know where they really stand. But somehow, Buddhists seem not only so content and secure in thier religion, but seem to be some of the most logical people as well.

This forum has given me a great impression of Buddhism in general. Unfortunately, it has given me a very bad impression of Christianity, especially Evangelism. I am sad to say that these forums have only confirmed my previous suspicions....that most Christians are not only close minded, but willfully ignorant. And then some other Christians are just plain hateful.

I have met many Christians on these forums who have been some of the most wondorful people....but sadly, they are overshadowed and outnumbered by the Christians of ignorance, hate, and intolerance.

Same goes for Athiests...many Athiests on these forums also happen to be very intolerant of religion and even agnosticism, claiming that agnostics don't know where to stand.

And even more surprising to me is how ignorant many Athiests actually are. While many Christians, Jews, and Muslims will argue all based on personal beleif, and very often willfully ignore Facts that contradict thier point of view, Athiests will often SHOOT DOWN any point of view that is based on personal beleif, and which cannot be proven.

It is wrong on both ends, and Minds need to open. I am speaking to myself as well. We all need to open our minds and see that what we beleive is nothing more than beleifs.

The wisest person is the one who realizes they do not know all, and cherishes the perspective of others. [/B]

Who are you and what have you done with Lord Urizen?

(Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

Frankly I found it a bit unctuous.

+I didn't know there were Jews on the forum.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Frankly I found it a bit unctuous.

+I didn't know there were Jews on the forum.

Well there is someone who might be a Jew, a sock or some form of mold that has learnt how to form rudimentary half sentences in order to express its dislike for certain groups.

And yes, not like LU to say things like that....

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Well there is someone who might be a Jew, a sock or some form of mold that has learnt how to form rudimentary half sentences in order to express its dislike for certain groups.

And yes, not like LU to say things like that....

I take it I'm apparently among those "close-minded atheists" who "shoot down any view based on personal belief."

To which I'm simply going to reiterate the above:
With regard to opinion, respect must be justifiable. Everyone has the right to an opinion, be it religious or otherwise, but only so much as they don't present that opinion as fact without substantive corroboration.

I have no compunctions with seeking naturalistic explanations for phenomena. Likewise I don't see anything wrong with holding those who seek to explain phenomena based on personal credulity or incredulity as accountable as those who seek naturalistic explanations. And I personally don't see it as close-minded. But to each their own I believe the saying goes.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
With regard to opinion, respect must be justifiable. Everyone has the right to an opinion, be it religious or otherwise, but only so much as they don't present that opinion as fact without substantive corroboration.

I have no compunctions with seeking naturalistic explanations for phenomena. Likewise I don't see anything wrong with holding those who seek to explain phenomena based on personal credulity or incredulity as accountable as those who seek naturalistic explanations. And I personally don't see it as close-minded. But to each their own I believe the saying goes.

I agree entirely. Well said.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The wisest person is the one who realizes they do not know all - and cherishes the perspective of others.

If one does not know what represents truth within themselves, they will not know what represents truth within others. For only the wise man loves truth, while only the fool cherishes folly.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Who are you and what have you done with Lord Urizen?

(Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

What do you mean? There are times where I debate seriously....

I often act stupid to be humorous. We all do that. But there are times where I feel like saying what I truly think. I take it you agree with my above assertion?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Especially considering he tends to be one of the most belligerent, abrasive, and overzealous against those who are resolute in belief without tangible reason while at the same time being resolute without tangible reason in some beliefs.

I do not think a personal opinion has to be justified....we all have the right to it. If you beleive in the existance of Love as purely a physical entity, or in Love as something spiritual...there is no harm in either assertion.

When you claim that those who beleive differently from you are going to end up in Hell, and deserve to be tortured for all eternity, then yes, there is a major problem and harm coming from that kind of claim.

In my "If Jesus is Love" thread, I was not telling anyone how to live there life. I was not condemning anybody, or trying to force my beleifs down anyone's throat. I was only debating.

In every Christian "warning" thread, myself and other people are told that if we do not change, we will be tortured for all eternity in a place created by thier "Loving" God. I find that claim utterly rediculous, and if you are going to tell people how to live thier lives, then you better have some justification to back that shit up.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I take it I'm apparently among those "close-minded atheists" who "shoot down any view based on personal belief.".

No. Don't flatter yourself.

There are Athiests who have absolutely no tolerance for religious beleif of any kind, and instead of participating in debate, they just insult religious people without end. Atleast you debate.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
To which I'm simply going to reiterate the above:
With regard to opinion, respect must be justifiable. Everyone has the right to an opinion, be it religious or otherwise, but only so much as they don't present that opinion as fact without substantive corroboration..

Give respect and you shall recieve it. That's how i see it. Sorry we don't share the same philosophy on that matter.

Your claim for the entitlement to respect is just as wrong as a religious person who disrespects ALL assertions that challenge his faith.

I agree, however, that no one should present thier opinion as fact, without an entirely credible and undeniable basis.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I have no compunctions with seeking naturalistic explanations for phenomena. Likewise I don't see anything wrong with holding those who seek to explain phenomena based on personal credulity or incredulity as accountable as those who seek naturalistic explanations. And I personally don't see it as close-minded. But to each their own I believe the saying goes.

Being unaccepting of someone else's beleif without investigating it further is willful ignorance.

A religious person's refusal to look into the scientific and logical aspect of a situation is willful ignorance, and it is sickenly common.

An Athiest's refusal to investigate the possibility of the super natural, and disregard it as non-existant, with no evidense as to its non-existance is equally ignorant.

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
If one does not know what represents truth within themselves, they will not know what represents truth within others. For only the wise man loves truth, while only the fool cherishes folly.

Sounds like something Buddha would say. 🙂

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Sounds like something Buddha would say. 🙂

Well then you were either grossly idiotic or grossly ignorant in interpreting what I have stated, and since I have no tolerance for idiocy - I'll have compassion on you and assume that you were the latter of the two.

The point being made was that an individual who lies to themselves about the truth, is unable to recognize and/or cherish the truth when it is presented to them by others.

This type of individual will quickly take offense and reject truth when it is presented before them - regardless of how loving the character of the presenter. The end result of this rejection, is an individual who becomes a lover of individual opinions, regardless of how untruthful or depraved such opinions may be.

Does thou understand this lesson now Urizen?

Perhaps not so let me elucidate -

The "truth" that makes men free is the "truth" which most prefer not to hear -- But it is the only "truth" that is loving.

As always good day to you Urizen. God bless.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

If someone tells me the Earth is flat, purporting it as an absolute. Then respect for that opinion presented as fact is completely unjustified.

I seek naturalistic explanations for phenomena because I hold the view that they are adequate to explain said phenomena. I don't discount the possibility of things beyond the natural, but the plausibility is not sufficient to be of relevance to my views.

Tell me why exactly must one investigate the supernatural in order to be open-minded? Religion is to me no more than a historical and sociological curiousity. I don't care either way about the supernatural, I don't feel it relevant. Time has to be prioritized, and I would rather focus on what is here.

Prove it isn't there, is a logical fallacy.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh, you often present your opinion as fact or truth.

He..He..He. I was wondering when Urizen would realize the contradiction his own opinion presented. But as the old saying goes -

If you repeat a lie long enough - people will start to believe it, including oneself.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I do not think a personal opinion has to be justified....we all have the right to it. If you beleive in the existance of Love as purely a physical entity, or in Love as something spiritual...there is no harm in either assertion....

Why is my name in all the quote boxes? I don't want to be stealing xmarksthespot's thunder.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Why is my name in all the quote boxes? I don't want to be stealing xmarksthespot's thunder.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Who are you and what have you done with Lord Urizen?

(Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
This type of individual will quickly take offense and reject truth when it is presented before them - regardless of how loving the character of the presenter. The end result of this rejection, is an individual who becomes a lover of individual opinions, regardless of how untruthful or depraved such opinions may be.

Originally posted by Nellinator
He has been acting a lot more personable for pretty much the entire week... I'm hoping it continues. 🙂

I think several of us took a much needed break from this forum and have come back with a clean slate. Yourself and myself included.