Originally posted by llagrok
Thor has beaten the Abomination and Creel plenty of times :/The Hulk has never won a fair fight against Thor in the 616 universe.
Mjolnir makes up for a lot more than 50% of Thor's powers.
Which goes on to prove that Thor is nothing wthout the hammer. Thanks for proving that he is no match for the top tiers without it. Scans of Hulk beating Thor up are in this thread, chck em out Guy provided them earlier, or did you miss that?
I also noticed that you only said that Thor could take out the Abomination, and Creel.... what about Cain as well? I mean without BFR. Are you saying that he would win?
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
The Hammer is not the man. If Bruce Lee fought Chuck Norris, and Chuck had a sword, would it be a fair fight? Without the hammer Thor is too soft to win. I also noticed that Thor is wearing armor in those scans, I also noticed that he took the missile out with Mjolnir.but even if he did not i would love to see how good he'd do against adamantium bullets.
Take away War Hulk's sword and Mjolnir.
Suddenly, War's battle with Juggernaut changes.
Then, when we pit disarmed War against Thor, we are pretty much pitting Thor against Celestial Technology.
It becomes a totally different fight. The hammer is more of a way for Thor to focus the magics available to him. It is not the source of his power.
Also, there are a lot of aimless arguments against Thor's durability.
For the last 50 years, since the Marvel Universe character catalog, Thor's skin has been described as several times harder than diamond.
You can bring up the FEW times Thor has shown damage. It still means nothing compared to the MANY times Hulk has been damaged.
To deny this, is to just, plain lie.
Great, Hulk can get hurt, and then he can heal. The fact is, he gets hurt a lot more than Thor.
How many broken necks, disembowelments, etc, for the Hulk?
How many for Thor?
WWH was almost killed, permanently, by the Gamma Corps. Yeesh.
By that "Bird Guy".
Woo Hoo! What a Toughie! If they hadn't paused, it would have been done.
Then, what is it WWHulk does in the battle with Grey? Oh yeah, he uses the Hulki-Mind-Trick, and makes him go mad.
What a cop out.
Hulk was DEVOURED by Hoarfen. Thor has defeated creatures that were thousands of times larger and more powerful than Hoarfen.
I can go on and on with this stuff. You just can't do the same.
The list of weak, hurt and cheesy showings is just much bigger for all the Hulks.
Even the Mindless Hulk that did Onslaught's armor in, was not a regular incarnation of Hulk. They had to use the mind mumbo jumo to make it happen, because, obviously, that is the ONLY way Hulk can reach those power levels quick enough to use in a fight.
End of story.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Which goes on to prove that Thor is nothing wthout the hammer. Thanks for proving that he is no match for the top tiers without it. Scans of Hulk beating Thor up are in this thread, chck em out Guy provided them earlier, or did you miss that?I also noticed that you only said that Thor could take out the Abomination, and Creel.... what about Cain as well? I mean without BFR. Are you saying that he would win?
Which would be similar to saying Gl's are nothing without there power rings, Surfer is nothing without the PC, and Quasar is nothing without the Quantum Bands. All irrelevant statements as the characters are consistently written with that weapon, item, outside power. All part of the character, claiming they're nothing without it is completely irrelevant.
Thor's physically killed Hulk without Mjolnir. 🙂
He'd transmute Creel into a foreign element, physically dominate Abomination, and BFR Cain.
If you have it would be PIS/CIS because the Hulks physiology heals the lactic acids that build up in his muscles, which allows him to fight on forever.
They way you are arguing this, by ignoring huge pieces of the Hulk history, is not making you look good at all.
Whether you like it or not, the bad showings are a part of Hulk, and he is NOT what you are saying he is.
His stories are riddles with many, many instances of him being damaged, tired, beaten down, and defeated.
That was why we rooted for him!
Thor was always written in a way that it took something extra to beat him.
Originally posted by Bad Ash231
The Celestial armor I think was just suppose to focus those energy or something. It wasn't made clear.
I assumed that like the process did for Wolverine/Death. It made him more than what he was before. If strength were merely all it took to overpower Juggernaut Apocalypse, who slapped Hulk around the previous issue, could've provided that himself.
"Death III carried a sword which he appeared to be able to use to channel immensely powerful energy. He also appeared to have some sort of cloaking ability, which also shielded him from telepathy. He debuted by attacking the old OZT/Hulkbuster base, slaughtering its defenders, and destroying the body of Bastion, who was being held there. He was also after the Mannites, although the intervention of the X-Men prevented him from capturing or killing them at that point. However, Death was also able to tap into telepathic conversations and snuck aboard the Blackbird to follow some of the X-Men to where the rest of their number were with the Mannites."
None of this is an extension of Wolverine's natural abilities yet as a Horseman he had them. Besides, considering Hulk's size, what makes for a suit of armor on a 5'3" muties is barely enough for a codpiece on 7'+ tall mountain of jade muscle.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Haven taken a look at the repect thread. Thor has had his hands full with the Savage Hulk. Thor vs Savage Hulk could go either way. War Hulk should win the majority.
Notice how every time Hulk has been upgraded in some way, Thor has always upped his level to.
Thor has a NUMBER of ways to beat Hulk but he doesn't like to use them for fear of killing people, here he wont have that worry.
Originally posted by Nod
Notice how every time Hulk has been upgraded in some way, Thor has always upped his level to.
...I dont think any of the fights were with an upgraded hulk excpet one where he foguht Professor Hulk.....
Originally posted by Nod
Thor has a NUMBER of ways to beat Hulk but he doesn't like to use them for fear of killing people, here he wont have that worry.
Like what lightning, and teleportation? There are examples of him suing it in fights with the Hulk.
Originally posted by janus77
apparently it those energies were from the nexus that he became when split from Banner (after the Onslaught fight), or some I'm told here.makes no real difference seeing as both The Beyonder and The Stranger acknowledge Hulk as having energies similar to their own/infinite.
Yeah ok but as Horrifcus pointed out. It doesnt always work out like that he can still get overwhelmed, we do need to consider low showings
he has to have 'low showings' or else there's really no tension in the fights.
ultimately with these hypothetical battles, we have to take into account that the primary purpose of a comic is entertainment, not rigorous internal logic nor faithful renditions of character powersets.
I just think that Marvel have made it plain enough that Hulk is, for all intents and purposes, a being of infinite strength with some added - unusual - abilities in the way of physically manipulating intangible things.
the low showings can simply be chalked upto a lack of real determination on the part of The Hulk (which he's shown often enough, letting Thor off, walking away from juggernaut etc, because he's no longer "angry"😉 or Banner determinedly preventing Hulk from cutting loose, knowing that he'd rather Hulk/Banner died (which, it seems he can't) than be responsible for the destruction of the world.
Banner clearly knows that he can destroy the world if he so chooses to do, and he clearly has attempted to prevent himself from doing that.
anyway, that's just rationalising, and that's all we've really got. seeing as how comics are fundamentally indifferent to logic or reason, just like religious texts 🙂.