Top 10 Most Force Potential (From The Movies and CW Cartoons)

Originally posted by Sith'ari
Perhaps it was an assumption...

Or perhaps it was the narration describing him, which it was.

There's a writing technique, free indirect discourse (I think) where the narrator indirectly voices one of his character's feelings, this is clearly the case. [/B]

Again, you miss the entire point. Read the passage, it goes further to say. "He...he...he...He.." as in Maul.

No no. Ushgarak defeated you, but through a completely different way than the way that I was debating with you. I don't even care so much about debating the original point, just your wrong interpretations of the English dictionary and inability to understand the context of particular statements.

Firstly, that is exactly what Ushgarak did. That was how he defeated me. Unless you're talking about debating about me, to which I'd say, "no".

Whatever, until you can successfully refute this, you have lost.

Originally posted by Sith'ari
'"Darth Maul was a warrior in his prime, never to be any better, his powers at their apex."'

Coming to think about it, this quote really doesn't mean anything; a warrior in his prime - the best he has ever been (not ever will be - even if it meant ever will be, that is because the fact that he would soon die is being taken into consideration), never to be any better - he would never get any better (because he would soon die), his powers at their apex - his powers at the highest point that they have ever been (not ever will be - even if it meant ever will be, that is because the fact that he would soon die is being taken into consideration). This really doesn't actually say that he reached full potential. I'm actually surprised I didn't already notice it.

Nebaris, you truly are an idiot. I refuted it, you didn't refute back except with a "ur wr0ng. 1m t3llin6 Ush64r4k!!11//!!!". And then Ushgarak refuted my response to you.

I already lost. But not to you, I lost to Ushgarak. You're using a nice, little tactic to seem as if you actually beat me, when anyone with half a brain knows Ushgarak did all the work. So, I say, there's NOTHING LEFT TO DEBATE, quit acting like there is. There is nothing left, there's nothing for me to prove wrong, you dolt.

I already said I lost, so how can I "lose"? You're an idiot. The point is: I lost to Ushgarak, not to you, so stop trying to act as if you did any work, and stop acting as if there's something for me to prove right, when Ushgarak (key) already proved me wrong.

Well Sama if it is from the narrators point of view then I guess it's pretty much set in stone. If it is Qui Gon's, then it can be interpreted either way.

okay this is how the list should go

1.Anakin Skywalker
2.Luke Skywalker
3.Yoda
4.mace windu
5.darth sidious
6.dooku
7.Obi-Wan
8.plo koon
9.darth maul
10.ki-adi mundi

Originally posted by DarthSidiouss
okay this is how the list should go

1.Anakin Skywalker
2.Luke Skywalker
3.Yoda
4.mace windu
5.darth sidious
6.dooku
7.Obi-Wan
8.plo koon
9.darth maul
10.ki-adi mundi

Why isn't Depa Billaba on the list, and why is Yoda at 3?

Originally posted by Advent
Yoda had 900 years to tap into his true Force potential, yet he could only stalemate Sidious (or rather couldn't defeat him, regardless of the circumstances). Nine hundred years. Force potential is just that, it's not power.

Depa would've only gotten better, given the way Yoda describes her, and what we know about her - she's already in the top 10 of the PT Era.

All this talk about force potential has got me all giddy. What's this about Yoda studying for 900 years and only being able to stalemate Sidious?

#1. That's just the point, force potential means jack shit for Jedi. They have these restraints and limits and nonsense, it's a wonder Yoda got to where he was. Only by NJO did the Jedi start doing what they were supposed to.. And I'm really tired so I doubt this makes any sense.
#2. As part of the darkside, and as powerful as Sidious was with no restraints, Sidious got beat when the fight was even. Yoda having 900 years of experience has nothing to do with him stalemating Sidious, it has to do with Sidious being the more intelligent of the two(unusual characteristic for sith), and Yoda being 20 lbs.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
All this talk about force potential has got me all giddy. What's this about Yoda studying for 900 years and only being able to stalemate Sidious?

#1. That's just the point, force potential means jack shit for Jedi. They have these restraints and limits and nonsense, it's a wonder Yoda got to where he was. Only by NJO did the Jedi start doing what they were supposed to.. And I'm really tired so I doubt this makes any sense.
#2. As part of the darkside, and as powerful as Sidious was with no restraints, Sidious got beat when the fight was even. Yoda having 900 years of experience has nothing to do with him stalemating Sidious, it has to do with Sidious being the more intelligent of the two(unusual characteristic for sith), and Yoda being 20 lbs.

That made no sense, but what I'm saying is Force potential is just that, it's potential. Yoda reached his potential in ROTS, and we know he won't become more powerful than that considering he had 900 years to do such. Sidious, however, didn't reach his potential. Depa didn't reach her potential. Asajj didn't.

We shouldn't put Yoda at the top of the list, or at least in front of even Sidious, because he's already reached the potential and he stalemated Sidious with it, while Sidious still grew stronger.

That probably didn't make sense either. 😆

Eh are you sure ROTS Yoda was in his prime? I would like to see a young Yoda fight a young Sidious.. And I personally feel that ROTS Sidious reached his potential. It doesn't count much just because he got a younger body yet again. Then you'd have to make an argument for ROTS Yoda in a younger body, or hell even a dark side Yoda(as dooku described), who would be more powerful than ANY version of Sidious. I don't know if that made any sense.

hmm.. ur right i didnt add depa biliba... sht lol

Did anyone put Kar Vastor on that list?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Eh are you sure ROTS Yoda was in his prime? I would like to see a young Yoda fight a young Sidious.. And I personally feel that ROTS Sidious reached his potential. It doesn't count much just because he got a younger body yet again. Then you'd have to make an argument for ROTS Yoda in a younger body, or hell even a dark side Yoda(as dooku described), who would be more powerful than ANY version of Sidious. I don't know if that made any sense.

a. As Ush has already explained to you, it is traditional Star Wars tenet that the older a Force-user gets, the more powerful he becomes. Not only in the Force, but in all-around combat. Yoda, Dooku, Mace, and Luke - especially - are all examples of this.

b. What you personally feel gives no bearing to this argument, once again. Sidious spent the next twenty years studying the Force, actively, on a day-to-day basis - plundering various Force-strong clans and organizations from their knowledge. Plus, all that crap from the Jedi Temple. He became stronger.

Consider that Dooku had, perhaps, twenty years or so on Palpatine, in age, and he had reached his potential - and maintained that level of power for a long time. Now, imagine, Sidious (twenty years younger), with a new plethora of information and those years to study the Force.

c. It was not the clone body which gave him this power. In fact, Palpatine himself laments that his clone bodies are inferior, and that they succumb to his Dark energies even quicker. The only thing that his clone bodies gave him were the strength, speed, and agility of a young man. And that didn't last very long.

d. Palpatine, sometime during the events of RotS to the events of Dark Empire, finally created his Force Storm. That, too, had nothing to do with the clone bodies. Just his years of research and study.

e. Where is it said that a Dark Yoda would defeat Sidious in any of his forms? Dooku never said that. He said that if Yoda ever turned to the Dark Side, even Sidious himself would be annihilated. Which means that a Dark Side Yoda would defeat that present day Sidious. Nothing indicates that he could take on and defeat DE Palpatine. Furthermore, that was Dooku's own opinion on the matter, based on Yoda's centuries of experience.

f. Yoda has several centuries of experience in studying the Force that Sidious did not. In TPM, Obi-Wan says that "not even Master Yoda has a midichlorian count that high!" - when referring to Anakin's blood analysis.

That means that, at the time of TPM, Yoda had the highest midichlorian count, meaning he had the highest known potential, bar Anakin. It is logical to assume that Windu was a close second or so.

I know that the older you get the more powerful and knowledgeable you get, but your example with Dooku deals with force potential. So obviously Sidious had more than Dooku, ok? And Lightsnake is the one always parading around with the dark side Yoda quote so you'd have to ask him. I think it was something like a DS Yoda would annihiliate any DS users before and after him. A 900 year old dark sider, etc.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I know that the older you get the more powerful and knowledgeable you get, but your example with Dooku deals with force potential. So obviously Sidious had more than Dooku, ok? And Lightsnake is the one always parading around with the dark side Yoda quote so you'd have to ask him. I think it was something like a DS Yoda would annihiliate any DS users before and after him. A 900 year old dark sider, etc.

No, that isn't the quote.

The quote is: "If Yoda turned to the Dark Side, Sidious himself would be annihilated."

And, as for the rest, my point is that Sidious did not reach his potential at RotS, whereas Yoda did. And they stalemated. Which means that either Sidious's potential supercedes Yoda's own, or that his power does.

Well then a few questions come to mind. In terms of potential, in ROTS Yoda seemed to have superiority in the force to Sidious correct? This would be the fact that he threw a pod back up at Sidious, and Sidious couldn't bllock it, whereas Yoda blocked it as the pod was going DOWN. That's a clear demonstration of his superiority. Not to mention his absorption of the lightning and Sidious "oh holy hell" look. Then there's the other fact that he possibly disarmed Sidious(I'm not sure if that's true I read it somewhere). The problem is I'm sure Sidious reached his peak in ROTJ, but we see nothing from him. He had no lightsaber, he was old and shriveled, and I have to believe that in terms of lightsaber abilities, Sidious DID reach his potential in ROTS, and reached his force potential in ROTJ or probably in DE. Also, a good debate would be the quality and quantity from the teachings that Yoda had, and the teachings that Sidious had.

Well then a few questions come to mind. In terms of potential, in ROTS Yoda seemed to have superiority in the force to Sidious correct? This would be the fact that he threw a pod back up at Sidious, and Sidious couldn't bllock it, whereas Yoda blocked it as the pod was going DOWN.

Once again, you misunderstand. Yoda had reached his potential by the time of RotS. Hell, one could argue that he already reached in TPM. But, Sidious did not. He was, perhaps, three-fourths of the way there, based on what we know from other sources.

As for the "Force superiority", no, I wouldn't think so. During the initial portion of the pod fight, Sidious lifted three repulsorpods out of their moorings and - please note this - tossed all three up into the air, several meters above himself, as to gain momentum when he through them at Yoda. He tossed pods in direct defiance with gravity, and he threw three of them.

Then, you need to take into consideration that, immediately after he tossed the final pod at Yoda, Palpatine was no longer taking the fight seriously. He grew cocky. As RotS displayed, he closed his eyes and simply laughed into the back of his hand, and did not pay attention to Yoda.

Yoda had already launched the pod when Sidious stopped laughing, and was just in shock that Yoda had the balls to toss it back at him. Considering the other things that he did, it is unlikely that he couldn't have stopped the pod. He jumped away at the last moment.

That's a clear demonstration of his superiority.

No, I don't see how.

Not to mention his absorption of the lightnng and Sidious "oh holy hell" look.

I have already argued about the lightning ball scene. In fact, Yoda was the one grimacing in pain as he held the lightning at bay. By your logic, I could argue that Sidious held superiority there. Sidious was generating the energy, and thus had more control over it. Yoda was forced to remain stationary, but kept the lightning from striking him. Sidious got too close, and intensified the outpouring lightning. It coiled, just short of Yoda's palms.

Yoda simply pushed the collected energy right in between them, which blew them back. It ended in a stalemate. He didn't overpower Sidious in that instance, either.

Then there's the other fact that he possibly disarmed Sidious(I'm not sure if that's true I read it somewhere).

I've already argued that, as well. The official script says that he disarmed Sidious. Yoda then vows to kill Sidious, who blasts him with lightning. Yoda catches the lightning and throws it back, starting to deform Sidious. Then the script says that Yoda, for no reason, jumps away to a Senate pod.

This contradicts with the movie itself. But I would have no problem believing that Yoda finally outsparred Sidious, given that Sidious was out of practice.

Then again, we see that Sidious also disarmed Yoda - blasting the lightsaber right out of his hand.

The problem is I'm sure Sidious reached his peak in ROTJ, but we see nothing from him. He had no lightsaber, he was old and shriveled, and I have to believe that in terms of lightsaber abilities, Sidious DID reach his potential in ROTS, and reached his force potential in ROTJ or probably in DE.

Sidious, once again, did not practice with a lightsaber for thirteen years. To say that he reached his potential in that department would also be a foolish assessment. I'd argue that he was at his peak in lightsaber ability when he was training Maul. He, in fact, used a lightsaber to "trace" Maul's figure. He moved his lightsaber so quickly and efficiently that he managed to outline Maul's entire physical figure that if Maul moved a muscle, it "would have killed him".

As far as his Force potential, there's no telling that he even reached it at Dark Empire - which was where he finally developed his most devastating attack.

Also, a good debate would be the quality and quantity from the teachings that Yoda had, and the teachings that Sidious had.

Maybe.

Originally posted by Escape81
Once again, you misunderstand. Yoda had reached his potential by the time of RotS. Hell, one could argue that he already reached in TPM. But, Sidious did not. He was, perhaps, three-fourths of the way there, based on what we know from other sources.

So it is possible that either Sidious had more force potential for whatever reason, or he had access to teachings of greater quality than Yoda did.

As for the "Force superiority", no, I wouldn't think so. During the initial portion of the pod fight, Sidious lifted three repulsorpods out of their moorings and - please note this - tossed all three up into the air, several meters above himself, as to gain momentum when he through them at Yoda. He tossed pods in direct defiance with gravity, and he threw three of them.

Then, you need to take into consideration that, immediately after he tossed the final pod at Yoda, Palpatine was no longer taking the fight seriously. He grew cocky. As RotS displayed, he closed his eyes and simply laughed into the back of his hand, and did not pay attention to Yoda.

Yoda had already launched the pod when Sidious stopped laughing, and was just in shock that Yoda had the balls to toss it back at him. Considering the other things that he did, it is unlikely that he couldn't have stopped the pod. He jumped away at the last moment.

You also have to take a look at how high he lifted them. Maybe 1-2 feet? And perhaps he did get cocky but his look of shock was more like "I can't believe he was able to stop it and throw it back at me". And the fact that Sidious jumped down was because he couldn't stop it, rather him not taking the fight seriously. If he DIDNT take the fight seriously, that was the moment he did. And sheer physics demonstrate that what Yoda did compared to Sidious, demonstrated his superiority over certain aspects over the force, compared to Sidious.

I have already argued about the lightning ball scene. In fact, Yoda was the one grimacing in pain as he held the lightning at bay. By your logic, I could argue that Sidious held superiority there. Sidious was generating the energy, and thus had more control over it. Yoda was forced to remain stationary, but kept the lightning from striking him. Sidious got too close, and intensified the outpouring lightning. It coiled, just short of Yoda's palms.
Yoda simply pushed the collected energy right in between them, which blew them back. It ended in a stalemate. He didn't overpower Sidious in that instance, either.

Look carefully bro. The first second or two of the blast Yoda is shown grimacing. Then he turns back around and puts on his "you're ******" face. As soon as that happens he is seem absorbing the lightning, and Palpatine is showing the "i'm screwed" look, and more and more he seems to be either getting more deformed, or losing control of everything, until the blast pushes them both away. This also shows that Yoda was winning and Sidious was at the end of his ropes.

I've already argued that, as well. The official script says that he disarmed Sidious. Yoda then vows to kill Sidious, who blasts him with lightning. Yoda catches the lightning and throws it back, starting to deform Sidious. Then the script says that Yoda, for no reason, jumps away to a Senate pod.
This contradicts with the movie itself. But I would have no problem believing that Yoda finally outsparred Sidious, given that Sidious was out of practice.
Then again, we see that Sidious also disarmed Yoda - blasting the lightsaber right out of his hand.

And this is why I don't understand how they can consider a man, who up to that point had only force lightning(which is all he ever used), the most powerful sith lord in history. That just tells me that it disregards the EU..

Sidious, once again, did not practice with a lightsaber for thirteen years. To say that he reached his potential in that department would also be a foolish assessment. I'd argue that he was at his peak in lightsaber ability when he was training Maul. He, in fact, used a lightsaber to "trace" Maul's figure. He moved his lightsaber so quickly and efficiently that he managed to outline Maul's entire physical figure that if Maul moved a muscle, it "would have killed him".

As far as his Force potential, there's no telling that he even reached it at Dark Empire - which was where he finally developed his most devastating attack.

Is it stated that he didn't practice in 13 years? Also, we know Yoda teaches children saber forms, but honestly when is the last time Yoda picked up a saber, prior to Dooku? It could have been 50 years, or 100 years for all we know, right? If that were the case, then Yoda was out of practice to, seeing as he had no reason to use a lightsaber up until fighting Dooku. And again I don't think it had as much to do with force potential as it did with the amount of Knowledge that Sidious had, and its quality that surpassed Yoda's. I'd like to think they were both at their respective peaks in ROTS in terms of equal knowledge and what not, and Yoda clearly proved to be more powerful than Sidious.

So it is possible that either Sidious had more force potential for whatever reason, or he had access to teachings of greater quality than Yoda did.

Based on what we know, it seems to be the only options.

You also have to take a look at how high he lifted them. Maybe 1-2 feet? And perhaps he did get cocky but his look of shock was more like "I can't believe he was able to stop it and throw it back at me". And the fact that Sidious jumped down was because he couldn't stop it, rather him not taking the fight seriously. If he DIDNT take the fight seriously, that was the moment he did. And sheer physics demonstrate that what Yoda did compared to Sidious, demonstrated his superiority over certain aspects over the force, compared to Sidious.

One to two feet? I would recommend reviewing the fight again.

Palpatine ripped three pods from their moorings, and tossed them into the air, behind him, giving them extra momentum when he threw them at Yoda. No, it was several meters.

Also, after the final pod was thrown, Sidious was so wrapped up in his amusement, that he was not paying attention, nor did he take the fight seriously at all. If you'd like to go on expressions, when he finally did pay attention - the curious tick of the head and the "eh?" that he muttered seemed to hint at confusion, at how Yoda managed to stop it and throw it back.

Look carefully bro. The first second or two of the blast Yoda is shown grimacing. Then he turns back around and puts on his "you're ******" face. As soon as that happens he is seem absorbing the lightning, and Palpatine is showing the "i'm screwed" look, and more and more he seems to be either getting more deformed, or losing control of everything, until the blast pushes them both away. This also shows that Yoda was winning and Sidious was at the end of his ropes.

I am listening carefully. Once again, you're incorrect.

Yoda starts off, grimacing in pain and effort, with Sidious once again laughing. This seems to piss Yoda off, so he starts to move the lightning back, and then Sidious gets the "I'm screwed" look.

And, as I've already proven, this does not determine Yoda's superiority. For the vast majority of that scene, Palpatine had the advantage, and was overpowering Yoda. Only at the last moment did Yoda manage to act, and all he did was simply push the coiled energy directly in between them - which explains why both of them were knocked back by the shockwaves.

And this is why I don't understand how they can consider a man, who up to that point had only force lightning(which is all he ever used), the most powerful sith lord in history. That just tells me that it disregards the EU..

Considering how he was cited as such in EU sourcebooks, that's a poor assessment.

Is it stated that he didn't practice in 13 years?

Yes. I'd recommend reading the RotS novelization. He had his lightsaber contained in a neuranium statue for the better part of thirteen years.

Also, we know Yoda teaches children saber forms, but honestly when is the last time Yoda picked up a saber, prior to Dooku? It could have been 50 years, or 100 years for all we know, right? If that were the case, then Yoda was out of practice to, seeing as he had no reason to use a lightsaber up until fighting Dooku.

That is precisely my point.

Yoda, as an instructor, master, and Grandmaster, actively practiced with a lightsaber. There is no refuting that. He trained with the younglings, Dooku, and several others. Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter specifically states that he engaged in practice duels often. I would recommend familiarizing yourself in PT era novels a bit more.

Sidious had none after TPM.

And again I don't think it had as much to do with force potential as it did with the amount of Knowledge that Sidious had, and its quality that surpassed Yoda's. I'd like to think they were both at their respective peaks in ROTS in terms of equal knowledge and what not, and Yoda clearly proved to be more powerful than Sidious.

The point is: Sidious's potential > Yoda's.

Sidious had, perhaps, sixty years of training in the Force, whereas Yoda had eight hundred and eighty. And he was only able to stalemate Sidious.

As I told you, Yoda was at his peak. Sidious was not. That is a poor assessment.

Edit, regarding Sidious's lightsaber abilities:

"In Episode I Journal: Darth Maul, he demonstrated the ability to "move faster than {Darth Maul's} eye can follow," and wielded a lightsaber with such precision that he traced Maul's outline with its blade so closely that "one flinch, one involuntary twitch of a muscle" would have killed him."

Again, why is Sidous potential>Yoda, and not necessarily the quality of his teachings? It could be either or. And apparently Sidious did lose his ability to move quicker than the eye could see when he fought Mace huh?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Again, why is Sidous potential>Yoda, and not necessarily the quality of his teachings? It could be either or. And apparently Sidious did lose his ability to move quicker than the eye could see when he fought Mace huh?

Because, Sidious at his peak has performed far more powerful feats than Yoda at his. Also, if you believe that sheer quality is going to put a sixty year old Force user on par with an eight hundred year old Force user - without the presence of superior power or potential - you're deluded.

As for his speed, yes, apparently he did. Did I not just argue that he was out of practice when he fought against Mace?