Originally posted by Tha C-Master
People should state forcefields (or other conditions) to stop this cheap speedblitzing, particularly from fanboys. Even though it does work, it destroys the point of the match. You look down a page and its all you see...Flash is one of my favorite Super Hero's btw, so don't call me a "DC" hater... 🙄
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
People should state forcefields (or other conditions) to stop this cheap speedblitzing, particularly from fanboys. Even though it does work, it destroys the point of the match. You look down a page and its all you see...Flash is one of my favorite Super Hero's btw, so don't call me a "DC" hater... 🙄
🙄 Hmmmm what else can the flash do but speedblitz,thats like saying lets stop the hulk cheap strenght trick.
Originally posted by newjak86
Things make contact with his shields that is the point of having his shield up 😕The point I'm making is that Flash's Vibration wouldn't be attacking the shield but the very thing that makes up the shield.
And Mag's Hold on the atoms is the key to its power it not like it simply pushes eveything back ile you said it repules attacks meaning that once it makes contact it simply won't break not that it literally pushes back the attack. Otherwise no one would actually bve ab;e to touch the shield at all.
Flash's attack isn't simply attacking the shield it is destroying the very thing that holds it together. Now in reality Mags would be able to simply pull them back together but by the time he realized what had happened Flash would already be through and KOing him.
😕 I think it's more of a field then a shield, I think you may be right about the projectile thing but instead of him holding the particles together like a TK shield I believe he moves electrons in and out of the shield compensating for the force by using charge to get it.(Again I'll have to re-read Fatal Attractions).
But if the Flash does make contact with the field in his dissassembled form what about the Electromagnetic Backlash that Kitty Pryde felt when she tried to move her particles through the concentrated EM Energy?
Originally posted by ExodusCloakIts not teh same you see Kitty was offering just to get through.
😕 I think it's more of a field then a shield, I think you may be right about the projectile thing but instead of him holding the particles together like a TK shield I believe he moves electrons in and out of the shield compensating for the force by using charge to get it.(Again I'll have to re-read Fatal Attractions).But if the Flash does make contact with the field in his dissassembled form what about the Electromagnetic Backlash that Kitty Pryde felt when she tried to move her particles through the concentrated EM Energy?
Flash Vibrating as fast as he could would literally hit the shield. He would then start to based on his atoms Vibrating would begin to dissapte what is holding Mags together.
Basically think about the idea behind Mags power and the shield. Bsically it is his ability to hold bonds together to repel attacks brought on him. Flash Vibrating would take those binds as soon as he touched the area Mag's shield would also begin to vibrate tearing the shield or forcefield apart. By the time Mags would think of repulling them together and holding them steady Flash would already be KOing Mags because of his speed advantage
Originally posted by badabingNothing wrong with having a power, (like I said I like flash), it just takes away from the debate, because it doesn't allow people to utilize any OTHER strategy from the getgo... people should know by this point that ANY thread vs. Superman, Wonderwoman, or Flash is most likely going to end with "speedblitz, stupid thread", (unless they have extremely high durability), which is why it would make more sense to make the thread to have a good debate other than that particular point.
Speed is Flash's main power. It's not cheap to use it in a vesrus thread.
Does that make sense?
Originally posted by sexykingHmm, whatever he chooses to by the speedforce, make clones, whirlwinds, go back in time, Infinity Mass Punch. For a person trying to be a smartass you really don't do a good job of it. 😉
🙄 Hmmmm what else can the flash do but speedblitz,
Originally posted by sexykingNo it really isn't, I understand and argue quite well that the fact that Flash is getting hit by ridiculous things in comics and other media, that it not apply here. Its in his powers, so its not breaking any rules. I've been stressing that for quite some time now. My point was that using speedblitzing in the beginning of any debate simply takes away from it, which it does. Your analogy is also quite flawed as well, and Hulk's ability and Flash's aren't comparable as one is involuntary and one isn't. You should read the Hulk vs. Flash thread, it was quite good and I supported Flash in it.
thats like saying lets stop the hulk cheap strenght trick.
Originally posted by newjak86
Its not teh same you see Kitty was offering just to get through.Flash Vibrating as fast as he could would literally hit the shield. He would then start to based on his atoms Vibrating would begin to dissapte what is holding Mags together.
Basically think about the idea behind Mags power and the shield. Bsically it is his ability to hold bonds together to repel attacks brought on him. Flash Vibrating would take those binds as soon as he touched the area Mag's shield would also begin to vibrate tearing the shield or forcefield apart. By the time Mags would think of repulling them together and holding them steady Flash would already be KOing Mags because of his speed advantage
As soon as he makes contact with the shield he's still going to have to deal with the concentrated EM energy backlash. This energy could literally stop him from vibrating and pull his particles together causing him to solidify half way into the shield.
Also even though I understand Flash phase through Mags' shield is different to Kitty's, the idea of the phase ie the dissassemblement of particles is the same Makes caused Kitty to solidify with his EM Energy. So it's very probable that Flash would solidify half way through the shield.
BTW The idea that Mags holds his shield together like a telekinetic would mean a fatigued Magneto would have a weak shield.
Originally posted by ExodusCloakYou also have to hold the idea that Flash is vibrating really fast which causes a lot of energy as well.
As soon as he makes contact with the shield he's still going to have to deal with the concentrated EM energy backlash. This energy could literally stop him from vibrating and pull his particles together causing him to solidify half way into the shield.
Now as stated before Magneto could make an effort to reaffirm the bonds but since Flash is so much faster by the time Realized what was happening it would already be to late.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
People should state forcefields (or other conditions) to stop this cheap speedblitzing, particularly from fanboys. Even though it does work, it destroys the point of the match. You look down a page and its all you see...Flash is one of my favorite Super Hero's btw, so don't call me a "DC" hater... 🙄
just cause i say the flash win by useing his powers im not a flash fanboy.
the fact is sure i like flash to and i like mags just as much but mags really cant do aything to harm him at all. becaue flash would be so fast it would appear to him that mags is not moveing at all and then he would hit mags as hard as he can in muti places muti times and win.
and it may take away from the fight but that is why you almost never see him do it in the comics like that because their would be like one page. were this is a forum not a comic so we can use him to is best of abilty with out worrying about comic page shortness.
Does that make sense?
Hmm, whatever he chooses to by the speedforce, make clones, whirlwinds, go back in time, Infinity Mass Punch. For a person trying to be a smartass you really don't do a good job of it. 😉
No it really isn't, I understand and argue quite well that the fact that Flash is getting hit by ridiculous things in comics and other media, that it not apply here. Its in his powers, so its not breaking any rules. I've been stressing that for quite some time now. My point was that using speedblitzing in the beginning of any debate simply takes away from it, which it does. Your analogy is also quite flawed as well, and Hulk's ability and Flash's aren't comparable as one is involuntary and one isn't. You should read the Hulk vs. Flash thread, it was quite good and I supported Flash in it. [/B][/QUOTE]
You just said it yourself by the speedforce and wouldnt you say thats connected to his speed for which you claimed was cheap.
I really dont see how my analogy is flawed now you do know i was talking about hulk and not banner right? Hulks power is strenght and lets say he was fighting someone like Rhino the argument would be that hulk would knock out Rhino because he was stronger.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
People should state forcefields (or other conditions) to stop this cheap speedblitzing, particularly from fanboys. Even though it does work, it destroys the point of the match. You look down a page and its all you see...Flash is one of my favorite Super Hero's btw, so don't call me a "DC" hater... 🙄
I agree 100%. For some reason a lot of people don't seem to take into account the speed discrepancy that exists between many Marvel and DC characters when they create threads. All it would take is for the thread starter to just to ban that specific tactic at the beginning or give the fighters time to turn on any defensive shields/abilities they have. 😬
Still even if Mags had his shields us at the start, I don't see how Magneto could win this fight. All Flash would have to do is "steal" all of the kinetic energy from Magneto's body. Thus frozen his shields would go down and the Flash can easily kill/k.o. him.
Originally posted by newjak86
You also have to hold the idea that Flash is vibrating really fast which causes a lot of energy as well.
Now once Flash came into contact with the area he would more than likely cause the atoms in the area to vibrate as well. As soon as they atarted to vibrate the bonds holding them togther would also begin to break.Now as stated before Magneto could make an effort to reaffirm the bonds but since Flash is so much faster by the time Realized what was happening it would already be to late.
If Mags' shield solely reallied on him holding the particles of his shield together via Force then a Fatigued Magneto's shield wouldn't be able to stand against anything. But it does meaning the scientific concept is what makes the shield so great.
As for the Energy produced with the Flash's first vibration into the shield it'll dissipate like any other attack.
The idea that Flash once inside the shield can break it is plausible but the problem is the instant the Flash touches the shield he is going to feel the EM backlash meaning he'll solidify, the force produced by the initial attack will dissipate so that won't be any help. Basically this means the Flash won't be able to get into the shield without solidifying the instant he makes contact with it.
Still even if Mags had his shields us at the start, I don't see how Magneto could win this fight. All Flash would have to do is "steal" all of the kinetic energy from Magneto's body. Thus frozen his shields would go down and the Flash can easily kill/k.o. him.
I don't have a counter for that, what's the concept behind Flash's Kinetic steal? How does he do it?
I just explained this, but here we go again...
Originally posted by Sea KingOf course saying a character wins by using his powers doesn't make you a fanboy. It never does, the fanboys know who they are, and people know what it takes to be viewed as one by allies/opponents. Like I said, Flash is one of my favorite characters, and IS my favorite character in DC, and I like him moreso than Magneto. Anyways, Flash hardly has the fanboy following of some around here. I will mention that the people who get the most offended by this when I haven't addressed them are usually DC fanboys lol, (not saying you are one).
just cause i say the flash win by useing his powers im not a flash fanboy.
Originally posted by Sea KingThat is debateable in itself, (if Magneto had his shielding before the match and all), he could secure some immediate advantages, and take loads of damage, this was a highly debated topic a few months back.
the fact is sure i like flash to and i like mags just as much but mags really cant do aything to harm him at all. becaue flash would be so fast it would appear that mags is not moveing at all and then he would win.
Originally posted by Sea KingLike I said, in comic forums PIS is excluded, I understand that.
and it may take away from the fight but that is why you almost never see him do it in the comics like that because their would be like one page.
Originally posted by Sea KingIf a member wishes to make a thread and is honestly curious who would win, it is usually greater help to give him other strategies by which a character can win, other than "Speedblitz", a member who was mocking me just asked what else Flash can do, therefore it helps to have a more in depth thread, and usually good threads like that keep duplicates from spawning up.
were this is a forum not a comic so we can use him to is best of abilty with out worrying about comic page shortness.
Mags has super strength so it'll take a lot of punishment to put him down, and by the time it would start affecting him, he would have the flash suspended in the air ripping him apart and incinerating the peices.
to those who say that Flash could simply speedblitz him or vibrate through his sheilds, read JLA issue #59 (the title .. The Chilling Joke) and see how Dr. Polaris (DC's version of Magneto) punked the whole JLA and esp flash
Originally posted by sexykingYou still misunderstand, I'm not saying, "Flash shouldn't be able to use his speed because its cheap!!!" I'm saying, "speedblitzing at the beginning of each and every conceivable match against a character who does NOT have extraordinary durability, takes away from the matches, because it doesn't allow for other strategies to be established and utilized."
You just said it yourself by the speedforce and wouldnt you say thats connected to his speed for which you claimed was cheap.
That goes for any fast character, not just Flash. If this thread was say, Superman vs. Magneto, I would say the same thing.
Originally posted by sexykingIMP's, Clones, etc. are totally voluntary abilities and are "tactics" that Flash could use in a given matchup.
I really dont see how my analogy is flawed now you do know i was talking about hulk and not banner right? Hulks power is strenght and lets say he was fighting someone like Rhino the argument would be that hulk would knock out Rhino because he was stronger.
Something such as Juggernaut's durability for example, can't be turned on and off, so me saying "Juggernaut will be durable" isn't a tactic because he's always like that no different than a heartbeat. That is different than me saying, "Juggernaut will make a forcefield". That is voluntary and therefore a tactic that would be directed at the opponent in this matchup.
Originally posted by complexbrother
Mags has super strength so it'll take a lot of punishment to put him down, and by the time it would start affecting him, he would have the flash suspended in the air ripping him apart and incinerating the peices.to those who say that Flash could simply speedblitz him or vibrate through his sheilds, read JLA issue #59 (the title .. The Chilling Joke) and see how Dr. Polaris (DC's version of Magneto) punked the whole JLA and esp flash
Originally posted by badabing
Magneto has normal HUMAN strength. He can lift great weights using his powers over magnetism. The speed force punch which occurs 1 picosecond after the fight starts puts him down.
I think what he meant is that Magneto has two more layers of protection after his shield.
The Second layer is his clothes which is made out of dense metal.
And the last layer is the electromagnetic energy stored in his body. Which amps up his durability and strength and allows him to take punches to the face from heavy hitters like Colossus and Namor.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You still misunderstand, I'm not saying, "Flash shouldn't be able to use his speed because its cheap!!!" I'm saying, "speedblitzing at the beginning of each and every conceivable match against a character who does NOT have extraordinary durability, takes away from the matches, because it doesn't allow for other strategies to be established and utilized."That goes for any fast character, not just Flash. If this thread was say, Superman vs. Magneto, I would say the same thing.
IMP's, Clones, etc. are totally voluntary abilities and are "tactics" that Flash could use in a given matchup.
Something such as Juggernaut's durability for example, can't be turned on and off, so me saying "Juggernaut will be durable" isn't a tactic because he's always like that no different than a heartbeat. That is different than me saying, "Juggernaut will make a forcefield". That is voluntary and therefore a tactic that would be directed at the opponent in this matchup.
I can understand your reasoning you dont want to turn this into a bias fight or an uneven match. Although what it seems your saying is that flash shouldnt speed blitz magneto because its not fair on magneto, this is a fight and althought your logic for saying give mags a shot is to provide a fight but the simple logic of it is the flash is capable of ending the fight in seconds fair or not.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I think what he meant is that Magneto has two more layers of protection after his shield.The Second layer is his clothes which is made out of dense metal.
And the last layer is the electromagnetic energy stored in his body. Which amps up his durability and strength and allows him to take punches to the face from heavy hitters like Colossus and Namor.
Originally posted by badabing
Thanks for clearing that up. 😎
You're welcome...but personally I don't think that's going to do much if Flash steals his speed unless the EM energy some how protects Eric which is a longshot.
There's no counter for that move...or at least none that I can think of. 🙁
Eh they should have a crossover again...this time Mags should get a chance to fight.
Imagine a Quicksilver/Flash rematch with HOM Wanda warping reality.
Originally posted by sexykingNo I just explained that I wasn't saying that and he does win, I was saying to get a better debate to use something to cause balance etc etc etc. Noone is arguing that he loses, just that it destroys a debate...
I can understand your reasoning you dont want to turn this into a bias fight or an uneven match. Although what it seems your saying is that flash shouldnt speed blitz magneto because its not fair on magneto, this is a fight and althought you logic for saying give mags a shot is to provide a fight but the simple logic of it is the flash is capable of ending the fight in seconds fair or not.