Magneto vs. The Flash

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
In other words she didn't solidify or it would kill him.
Vulcan's more powerful than Kitty... duh. But frankly the depiction indicates it hurt him more than her.
That's a pretty big stretch, if you were to jolt a gas it wouldn't solidify.

Some Magneto Oneshot which wikipedia says exists, but I can't find. And the wikipedia entry only says it's a collection of old Magneto stories anyway. He says it provides some highly in depth explanation of Magneto's shield.

And I didn't say those intermolecular forces are strong and weak force, I was saying he's never been shown to manipulate intermolecular forces on anything other than metals iirc.

Point taken...

If you were to place a gas in a small concentrated room of EM energy then would it solidify? The particles can't move in the room because there's no space to move so they become compacted together and solidify.

If she solidified when she stuck her hand through his head then yeah he would have died, but since her primary state is her phased form, it means whatever he did caused her to solidify when he knocked her out otherwise her body would have remained phased.

As for the intermolecular forces thing, the concept behind it is basically the same for both metals and non metals so he should be able to manipulate it especially when he can manipulate blood which is non-ferrous. He can manipulate electron flow(Brain synapses) as well which basically means he's able to manipulate all intermolecular forces.

Is there an arc name for that particular set of books?

None of these are the pages yet I'm going page by page. I'll get there soon.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Point taken...

If you were to place a gas in a small concentrated room of EM energy then would it solidify? The particles can't move in the room because there's no space to move so they become compacted together and solidify.

If she solidified when she stuck her hand through his head then yeah he would have died, but since her primary state is her phased form, it means whatever he did caused her to solidify when he knocked her out otherwise her body would have remained phased.

As for the intermolecular forces thing, the concept behind it is basically the same for both metals and non metals so he should be able to manipulate it especially when he can manipulate blood which is non-ferrous. He can manipulate electron flow(Brain synapses) as well which basically means he's able to all manipulate intermolecular forces.

2. Note the ridiculous costume. This is before intangibility became her natural state.

3. When he manipulates blood it's because writers ignore that hemoglobin isn't ferromagnetic, when he manipulates synapses it's because writers view it as no different to electricity.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
1. 😑 Gas will bypass liquid phase and solidify when exposed to electromagnetic radiation? If anything the addition of energy would only excites the molecules further.

2. Note the ridiculous costume. This is before intangibility became her natural state.

3. When he manipulates blood it's because writers ignore that hemoglobin isn't ferromagnetic, when he manipulates synapses it's because writers view it as no different to electricity.

Then why is it the case that the stronger the EM Force between molecules the stronger the bonds? If there is no where to move then in this case it won't be a gas any more under such high pressure and such high force being applied on each particle.

Shouldn't it have always been her natural state? Even before they explained it in the comics? When she phased through Vulcan she was also forced into her solid form.

Even though it's ridiculous and the writers are to blame, he still does it. I mean the whole worm hole thing was just shocking.

Here are the rest of the pages. Note that this is her trying to phase through his body not his shield. She phases through him distrupt his aura, then on the next page he jolts her which knocks her unconcious. Of course nobody really knows what would happen if she attempted to phase through that shield especially when it nullifies physical and energy attacks.
On the last page it says Kitty was in her phased form when she recieves the jolt that reassembles her. That's how she survived the attack. Meaning a concentrated dose of EM energy would render her hurt and solid again just like Vulcan.

She doesn't receive a shock phasing into him. She's only harmed because he apparently electrocutes her.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Then why is it the case that the stronger the EM Force between molecules the stronger the bonds? If there is no where to move then in this case it won't be a gas any more under such high pressure and such high force being applied on each particle.

Shouldn't it have always been her natural state? Even before they explained it in the comics? When she phased through Vulcan she was also forced into her solid form.

Even though it's ridiculous and the writers are to blame, he still does it.

When one takes into account she regularly phases into electronic equipment and the electricity flowing through it, the manner in which he supposedly nearly killed her such an incident would seem very plot induced for current Kitty Pryde.

No it wasn't her natural state at the time. And no if she was forced to solidify due to phasing through Vulcan she would have killed him.

Yes, the writers are to blame. But the fact that he can manipulate blood or electrical impulses doesn't give any credence to a view that he can manipulate the molecular and atomic structure of non-metallic objects or beings. Both of these, blood and brain, are explained by his control over simple magnetism and electricity respectively.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She doesn't receive a shock phasing into him. She's only harmed because he apparently electrocutes her.
I just had a look at it. Firstly, he did not even jolt her with electromagnetic radiation, he jolted her with electricity. Secondly, if he did jolt her with anything it would have been energy not electromagnetic force. Thirdly even if he had jolted her with electromagnetic force, he has never shown a fine control of the intermolecular forces in organic matter - thus it's specious to assume that a crudely applied electromagnetic force would cause her to solidify.

When one takes into account she regularly phases into electronic equipment and the electricity flowing through it, the manner in which he supposedly nearly killed her such an incident would seem very plot induced for current Kitty Pryde.

No it wasn't her natural state at the time. And no if she was forced to solidify due to phasing through Vulcan she would have killed him.

Yes, the writers are to blame. But the fact that he can manipulate blood or electrical impulses doesn't give any credence to a view that he can manipulate the molecular and atomic structure of non-metallic objects or beings. Both of these, blood and brain, are explained by his control over simple magnetism and electricity respectively.

Isn't electricity the flow of electrons? And since he has been shown to have fine control over particles which are the same size as the non-metallic objects then surely he's able to manipulate them too via intermolecular bonding as the concept is the same and the EM force is still the same.

True it could be PIS on Kitty's part but then again she has never has never gone up against a machine that could force her molecules together. Who knows what the nature of that attack was but we know it knocked her out.

The nature of Energy wielders bodies are unknown, if Kitty got stuck in Iceman would she kill him? Vulcans body IMO is just energy but thats off the point she was forced into her solid form after she phased through him he got up and blasted everyone, and she got blasted too.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Isn't electricity the flow of electrons? And since he has been shown to have fine control over particles which are the same size as the non-metallic objects then surely he's able to manipulate them too via intermolecular bonding as the concept is the same and the EM force is still the same.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
True it could be PIS on Kitty's part but then again she has never has never gone up against a machine that could force her molecules together. Who knows what the nature of that attack was but we know it knocked her out.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
The nature of Energy wielders bodies are unknown, if Kitty got stuck in Iceman would she kill him? Vulcans body IMO is just energy but thats off the point she was forced into her solid form after she phased through him he got up and blasted everyone, and she got blasted too.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Read the rules of the Forum.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t308157.html

"Bloodlust

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed..."

Also:

"Prep time

Neither side receives any notable prep time before the starting bell. Neither side may take any offensive or defensive actions before the starting bell. Planning is allowed and powers that are automatic or 'always on' can be up, but actions such as setting up forcefields, taking flight, or consciously activating powers is not...."

You have to do that to BOTH characters, last i heard.

Why then are you trying to make Magneto dumb enough to NOT make use of a shiled when he ALWAYS does that? He goes to fights already shielded.

Now, how about examples of situations where Flash took someone without the figtht even starting or at Marvel, speedesters owning Mags? Then you have some base to sit on.

Originally posted by olympian
Why then are you trying to make Magneto dumb enough to NOT make use of a shiled when he ALWAYS does that? He goes to fights already shielded.

I appreciate scans but, can they at least be on a readable size?

That one is with who for example? Gambit?

In what context was that? Wer they talking and he cheap shot him? Prof X attacked him first? What?

Readable size? 😑 They're imageshack links. His shield is not even close to always being up.

Zakkt.

Tonk.

Yes readable. When i open the link its too small to read or even check anything. At least when i open...What event was that one? When he took Logans adamantium off his body?

And i bet i can find more examples of Flash not beating an opponent even after the figth starts than Mags not shield himself up. Thats his usual thing. Now obviously if he doesnt and hes just talking or being dumb, then Flash has what it takes to beat him.

Wharever Mags shows up using his powers, Flash wont be able to do much.

His usual thing? I'm currently looking through his appearances. Half his fights he doesn't have a forcefield. Other times he's moved within the supposed infinite inertia forcefield that nothing can move and that instantly repels everything.

😕 It says at the bottom of my last scan above 980x1500 260kb... that's the image size.

The Flash.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What particles are you referring to? Metallic bonding and intermolecular bonds are dissimilar.
Nor has she gone up against a human who can. Because Magneto has yet to shown such a level of molecular control of organic matter.
There's nothing to indicate Vulcan's body is just energy so I don't know what you're basing your opinion on. She assumes a solid form via conscious control of her abilities, as stated her natural form is intangible. She normally assumes a solid form. He did not force anything.

The phenomena Metallic Bonding and Intermolecular bonds still require the same ingredients to occur. The Electrostatic Force in the Crystal Lattic is part of the EM Force. Anyway it's the writers fault.

If Magneto's shield is completely sealed off in space so Oxygen molecules don't diffuse out of it then there's no way Kitty can pass her molecules around the particles of his shield that he so tightly compacts.
The Flash can take him both ways with his Kinetic steal but it doesn't really make much sense that he can phase his particles through it when other particles are shut out.

Point taken.

As for the Vulcan thing the energy thing was speculatory so it shouldn't mean much. She saw Gabriel get up so either it's PiS that she got hit again or his energy stopped her phasing.(Something similar to what he did to Rachel and Scott)

Not that any of that makes a difference Kinetic Steal beats Mags shield IMO.

Originally posted by Whittdawg92
wait, are we talkin both at full power? at full power, flash tries to run around a show off, and mags black holes him, or blows him up, or many other things.

Magneto is not Graviton. Black holes do not fall in his realm of power.

Exodus Cloak, this is ridiculous. Talking about double-standards. I don't see how you can argue crap like this and then try and critize my Storm arguments where there is canon that actually gives her the kind of power I debate with. Trying to compare Kitty and Flash is oranges and apples and its desperate. Flash beats Magneto easily. Mags has no defense against Flash's powers and Flash is too fast for Magneto's power to catch him without PIS working against Flash.

Magneto takes this.

Magneto's shields!

Magneto can tag blast Flash with projectiles.