Originally posted by babel10
First, the Surfer is indeed powerful, however he couldn't just blast the whole team into submission since Magneto can definitely defend himself against the Surfer's blast. In Addition, to think the Surfer could blast and kill Apocalypse and Sinister in one shot is ridiculous. Since Apocalypse has powerful energy attacks and shields of his own, can increase size, strength, and density, alter body parts or entire body into powerful melee or firing weapons, or even mimic a vehicle. Sinister on the other hand has powerful telepathy and can mentally turn of powers of super powered beings and can take all kinds of punishment. Then Nefaria is a powerhouse in strength which could easily give Surfer trouble. Now on beating the Surfer, he has been Ko by Morg since the Surfer isn't much of a hand to hand fighter. Thats trouble for the Surfer since Apocalypse is at least as strong as Morg, but far more versatile and a better fighter, Plus Nefaria is there too. So the Surfer would either retreat or get Ko. Now as for Magneto his raw power is below the Surfer's however Magneto has technology that he has used to amp his power before. Such as his helmet that could take over any living mind that would overwhelm the surfer.
morg defeated ss one time, when ss had no real knowledge what or who he was. the next time they met, ss made certain morg understood who the most powerful herald was and beat him power for power, strength for strength and ko'd him, destroying most of a planet collaterally. ss>morg beyond question. and in some of the latest ss books, your contention that he is a poor h2h combatant is very much refuted. he is a pacifist, but ss CAN fight very well. (see ss respect thread in comic book forum if you're interested . . .)
how would mags counter having the air drawn out of his shield? storm did it and it would be even easier for ss to do so. and what makes you think mags control over EM>SS's who has near absolute control over ALL fundamental forces including quantum and time?
how does nefaria last a moment being made entirely of ionic energy and ss easily manipulated wonderman's energy in the past? not to mention his speed. how would any of them even HIT him if he was using his speed?
I already knew that, but thats too convenient for Surfer just to utilize his time powers or open a blackhole. Because if that were the case Sinister could enter Surfer's mind and and turn of his powers or Apocalypse turns his hand into a weapon that penetrates the Surfer's body since Apocalypse is a better fighter and could alter his atomic structure. However, I prefer to use references that have happened in actual battles since I've seen Sinister easily put down Nate Grey by affecting his powers mentally or Apocalypse turn his chest into a powerful cannon. Plus, magneto affect the Electromagnetic spectrum of the Earth, and Nefaria take a solid hit from Thor with no problem.
shehulk has punched ss and done ZERO damage -- he didn't even flinch. ironman has done the same thing. ZERO damage. hulk himself has done nothing but stagger him with HIS strength. all we know of apoc's strength is he held hulk for a short time -- and it wasn't even SAVAGE hulk. and given the fact that his body is malleable it isn't really even that big a deal. reed richards could do something similar. ss could scan his body's structure and effect his dna. he granted the skrulls the ability to shapeshift again after they had lost the ability and cleansed the cells of an entire planet's population. he could easily find the x-gene and simply turn it off. why not? or just overwhelm him with damage.
ss took a full power tp blast from moondragon WITH the mind gem and was barely knocked down. the exact same attack left prof x in a coma. he's blasted a collective alien consciousness with a power cosmic blast routed through his CONSCIOUSNESS. tp will NOT be effective on ss . . .
OK, so the Champ was depowered against She-hulk but still did fine against the Surfer. Warrior Madness Thor again is just a berserker Thor it doesn't make him classes stronger. As for Thanos Thor was pounding Thanos around, and sure Thanos is strong, but he still relies heavily on his technology since he relied heavily on it against the Champion, and the punisher's. So obviously Thanos has specific limits on his raw power and requires assistance from his technology.
champ is an elder with the power primordial and has wiped out a GROUP of top tier heroes with little more than a wave of his hand. ss has defeated him. and wm thor LITERALLY is possessed of 10x his normal strength. it's on panel, thor says it. and thanos didn't have tech against odin . . .
For one Magneto alone would be formidable against Silver Surfer, he wouldn't be a push over. In addition, with Nefaria, Apocalypse, and Sinister the Surfer would take a terrible beating also considering Apocalypse alone would be a difficult challenge for Surfer. Plus, he has to deal with Nefaria's strength and Surfer wouldn't know what to expect from Sinister. So the Surfer goes down hard against these four with or without prep time. [/B]
i disagree that mags would be a challenge. you still never said what he could possibly do to harm him. if it's his helmet, it's an easy thing for ss to transmute the metal into ceramic, or gas, or acid . . . he could affect him genetically. these are all things ss HAS done to various opponents at one time or another. he changed all the obliterator's weapons into harmless light machines! if he can do that to the weapons of an elder of the universe, he sure shouldn't have trouble changing mags helmet . . .
nef is never a part of this in any way. sinister and apoc would be a little tougher, but apoc can be overcome with damage or a tp assault or a number of ss's more exotic attacks. sinister likewise. you said ss doens't show all these kinds of attacks against more powerful foes. ravenous was an equal and he trapped PARTS of him in his board! ss has battled and defeated or done very well against nearly every 'cosmic' related foe he's come against. who has sinister battled that would make you think he could hang with the ss? and just how would anyone even hit a well written ss?
