First, the Surfer is indeed powerful, however he couldn't just blast the whole team into submission since Magneto can definitely defend himself against the Surfer's blast. In Addition, to think the Surfer could blast and kill Apocalypse and Sinister in one shot is ridiculous. Since Apocalypse has powerful energy attacks and shields of his own, can increase size, strength, and density, alter body parts or entire body into powerful melee or firing weapons, or even mimic a vehicle. Sinister on the other hand has powerful telepathy and can mentally turn of powers of super powered beings and can take all kinds of punishment. Then Nefaria is a powerhouse in strength which could easily give Surfer trouble. Now on beating the Surfer, he has been Ko by Morg since the Surfer isn't much of a hand to hand fighter. Thats trouble for the Surfer since Apocalypse is at least as strong as Morg, but far more versatile and a better fighter, Plus Nefaria is there too. So the Surfer would either retreat or get Ko. Now as for Magneto his raw power is below the Surfer's however Magneto has technology that he has used to amp his power before. Such as his helmet that could take over any living mind that would overwhelm the surfer.
Show me some proof that Mags shield can take a planet destroying blast.
not speculation, actual on panel feat. Same with Apoc. he has fallen from a blast by the likes of Cykes and Havok and SS is way higher level than those guys. The only way i can think of them getting out a that blast is by porting out or Mags somehow conjuring a wormhole out of there. And SS wouldnt just do 1 blast, he can do this all night long;
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=82adscd.jpg&.src=ph
and SS is a lot faster than High Evo. in terms of speed. How do you know Apoc. is as strong as Morg or better fighter? Again thats speculation, I want proof. I know Apoc can Aug. strength in unknown level but if you wanna put it that way SS then can augment inf. level in strength (dont even know what that means) because he has inf. energy sources. In terms of fighting abilities check out recent issue of planet Hulk were SS single handedly battle the Green Scars, + he has battle the likes of Thanos, Champion, Adam, Thor, if he can hang out with this guys in H2H then he must not be that bad in hand to hand. Now Apoc, Sinister, Nefaria, Mags; who have they fought that makes them a master of H2h at say Champions, Thor or Thanos level.
I already knew that, but thats too convenient for Surfer just to utilize his time powers or open a blackhole. Because if that were the case Sinister could enter Surfer's mind and and turn of his powers or Apocalypse turns his hand into a weapon that penetrates the Surfer's body since Apocalypse is a better fighter and could alter his atomic structure.
So Sinister can undo what Great Galactus gave to SS, again show me proof that Sinisters powers>>>>>>>than PC. Even Moondragoon, a high level telepath w/ mind gem did nothing to SS in terms of Telepathic assault, how can Sinister and Apoc. compare to that + SS has fought complete psionic or telpathic beings and won. I showed you proof on how SS would fight the team, now show me how the team can defend against such assault, no what if and what not. I want on panel proof or issues ##.
However, I prefer to use references that have happened in actual battles since I've seen Sinister easily put down Nate Grey by affecting his powers mentally or Apocalypse turn his chest into a powerful cannon. Plus, magneto affect the Electromagnetic spectrum of the Earth, and Nefaria take a solid hit from Thor with no problem.
Sinister made Nate of course he would somehow put a fail safe on him in order to control him. but has Sinister done the same thing to other mutants? NO, because it is not within his power to shut down other peoples power with out tech aid. specificly against mutant. SS took a barrage of hit from Savage Hulk, WM Thor, Thanos, Champion, Drax and a few other power house and survived. PC>>>>>Electromagnetic spectrum, PC>>>>>Ionic energy.
Who isn't used to fighting in space. Magneto could fight in space and so can Apocalypse. Since I remember Apocalypse fighting the Evolutionary successfully in space and his fight with Ikaris when they both left the ship and Apocalypse was flying through space. So it seems Apocalypse is fine in any environment as Magneto is with his shields if you recall all of his remote bases. Light Speed category, whats this have to do with the Surfer beating this team since unless the Surfer's traveling on his board he doesn't even approach those speeds. Referring to being caught off guard by Havok what's that have to do with anything. Since Surfer has been beaten by people who aren't that fast such as Champion, and Thor do they move at light speed.
A freakin Astranaught can fight in Space, but what im referring to is fighting somebody who is at home in space, who mostly lived and fight in space + who can move 300x at lightspeed in space. How many times
have this team fought in Space you can probably count it in 1 hand, this is why im saying its SS advantage. SS would be in his board because thats how he fights. How long do you think this guys would last with a barrage of PC blast, not to mention Blackhole droppings and his more exotic powers.
Again if you want to refer to the characters written down abilities instead of comics Surfer falls harder since that puts virtually no limits on Apocalypse and Sinister would mentally turn off Surfer powers. In addition, Magneto could just drain draining electromagnetic field of the earth and amp his power indefinitely. However, I prefer visual proof of the ability in an actual fight.
Obviously you dont really read SS comics because everything ive shown you is on comic panel, and if your talking about on paper bio well SS should be downright unbeatable, cause there is no limit to what PC can do. Cosmic beings>>>>>>>>Mutants.
The binding to the board, if this were so useful why is it absent in important battles, most likely because it's not practical for the surfer to bind someone when his hands are full in a fight.
1st because sometimes SS forget how his powers work 🙂 (actually writters at fault not SS)
2nd because before SS cant make more than 1 Board now he can apparently make more than 1.
Originally posted by Rols
Show me some proof that Mags shield can take a planet destroying blast.
not speculation, actual on panel feat. Same with Apoc. he has fallen from a blast by the likes of Cykes and Havok and SS is way higher level than those guys. The only way i can think of them getting out a that blast is by porting out or Mags somehow conjuring a wormhole out of there. And SS wouldnt just do 1 blast, he can do this all night long;
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=82adscd.jpg&.src=ph[/url]
Well, as for Planet destroying attacks since when have the Surfer's planet destroying attacks been successful in an important battle for him. Since Thanos disregards Surfer's most intense blast by not even putting up his shields. However, against Thor, and the Champion's physical assault Thanos kept the shields up until they were broken through. So the Surfer's blast and powers which are indeed powerful, but have their limits. Since he was caught off guard by Dracula, lost to Champion of the Universe and beat around by Thor. In addition, the Surfer had trouble with the Earth Eternals, during the Evolutionary War. So during all these situations the Surfer being able to blow up a planet meant nothing. As for Apocalypse, he lost to Cyclops's optic beam, which was being amplified by both Jean Grey and infant Cable. Did you read the issue, because that by far dwarfed any of Cyclops's other blast.
Now, referring to Magneto and the durability of his shields, well Magneto shields have stood up to the combined powers of Xmen, or even Avengers teams. Which have consisted of Thor or Hercules, and Magneto shields still provide enough resistance.
and SS is a lot faster than High Evo. in terms of speed. How do you know Apoc. is as strong as Morg or better fighter? Again thats speculation, I want proof. I know Apoc can Aug. strength in unknown level but if you wanna put it that way SS then can augment inf. level in strength (dont even know what that means) because he has inf. energy sources. In terms of fighting abilities check out recent issue of planet Hulk were SS single handedly battle the Green Scars, + he has battle the likes of Thanos, Champion, Adam, Thor, if he can hang out with this guys in H2H then he must not be that bad in hand to hand. Now Apoc, Sinister, Nefaria, Mags; who have they fought that makes them a master of H2h at say Champions, Thor or Thanos level.
Silver Surfer is fast, however he only approaches the speeds you're referring to in hyperspace, he doesn't casually in normal space move beyond light speed. This also true when he's fighting, because if he were so fast during fighting as well he wouldn't have had problems with Dracula, Morg, and the Champion. In addition, the Surfer's speed didn't keep him from being caught by the Eternals so he could be turned over to the Evolutionary. As for Surfer having potentially infinite strength, okay, why didn't he overcome the Champion. Since the Champion without the power gem couldn't beat She-hulk. Okay, so Surfer fights with Thor, Adam, and Champion, yet She-hulk beat Champion in a fair battle. In addition, Thor is knocked unconscious by the Evolutionary, and during the Evolutionary War the Evolutionary couldn't land one hit on Apocalypse. As for Surfer fighting Thanos, those are more one sided beatings for the Surfer. In addition, Magneto has held his own against Thor and Hercules, so what Adam without the soul orb won't make much difference.
So Sinister can undo what Great Galactus gave to SS, again show me proof that Sinisters powers>>>>>>>than PC. Even Moondragoon, a high level telepath w/ mind gem did nothing to SS in terms of Telepathic assault, how can Sinister and Apoc. compare to that + SS has fought complete psionic or telpathic beings and won. I showed you proof on how SS would fight the team, now show me how the team can defend against such assault, no what if and what not. I want on panel proof or issues ##.
Sinister made Nate of course he would somehow put a fail safe on him in order to control him. but has Sinister done the same thing to other mutants? NO, because it is not within his power to shut down other peoples power with out tech aid. specificly against mutant. SS took a barrage of hit from Savage Hulk, WM Thor, Thanos, Champion, Drax and a few other power house and survived. PC>>>>>Electromagnetic spectrum, PC>>>>>Ionic energy.
A freakin Astronaut can fight in Space, but what im referring to is fighting somebody who is at home in space, who mostly lived and fight in space + who can move 300x at lightspeed in space. How many times
Surfer can't move 300x lightspeed in space, but he can in hyper space. In addition, Apocalypse throughout in X-factor had Ship and the pyramid ship in New Eternals #1 so Apocalypse is no stranger to space. Also an Astronaut can't adjust their molecular structure to adjust to any situation like Apocalypse or adjustable shields that Magneto has, which allows them to fight in virtually any environment.
Obviously you dont really read SS comics because everything ive shown you is on comic panel, and if your talking about on paper bio well SS should be downright unbeatable, cause there is no limit to what PC can do. Cosmic beings>>>>>>>>Mutants.
Actually I have read many Silver Surfer comics, however a lot of the feats you showed such as Surfer blasting planets or rearranging matter of beings were on beings that were significantly weaker than him. Such as the Skrulls, or even Super Skrull, Magneto is way above Super Skrull.
There may be no limit on what the PC can do in the Hands of Galactus, however in the Surfer's hands it's shown he has many limits. In addition Cosmic Beings aren't always stronger than mutants since are all Eternals more powerful than mutants. Look at Starfox, some of the Earth Eternals, or even the Champion of the Universe they're Cosmic beings, yet there are more powerful mutants.
1st because sometimes SS forget how his powers work (actually writters at fault not SS)2nd because before SS cant make more than 1 Board now he can apparently make more than 1.
Well, I guess the writers aren't doing the Surfer justice. In addition, even if the Surfer could make more boards he would only manage to bind Nefaria or maybe Sinister. But, That still leaves at leaves him with trouble to fight in both Apocalypse and Magneto.
First off. Surfer has jobbed. A lot. He jobs so other characters can look powerful. In the recent annihilation comics it was shown that Galactus had put a type of self restraint on surfer so that surfer would not go all out. Now surfer is blowing up planets cause he fights harder. Current Annihilation Surfer is not Jobber Surfer.
Champion couldn't beat shehulk, but shehulk almost broke her fist punching surfer...
Surfer has shown, through Gladiator, that he can detect your weakness and create that exact radiation/energy, to weaken/hurt you.
Through Hulk, Surfer has shown he can remove the gamma radiation, to effectively depower you.
In the GL/Surfer crossover, Surfer's body contained the energies of the entire planet of OA.
As for Champion not touching Thanos once. In Thanos Quest, Thanos said if Champion landed one more hit, he'd break Thanos's shields, Thanos was actually relieved when Champion changed tactics and went into the planet breaker attack.
Silver Surfer has trapped people within his surfboard before.. and in the case of daredevil and spiderman, created energy cocoons they couldn't escape from.
In the case of the mutants, apocalypse, magneto, sinister. Surfer fought godlike cable, and at the end wasn't winded, or wounded. He stood there.
Also as far as mutants go. Mutants can have their powers deactivated. Why can't surfer use the power cosmic to simulate that energy and deactivate the mutants.
Surfer should win. 8/10
Well, as for Planet destroying attacks since when have the Surfer's planet destroying attacks been successful in an important battle for him. Since Thanos disregards Surfer's most intense blast by not even putting up his shields.
How about his recent fight with Ravenous and lets not forget Infinity crusades when he blew that 1st defense planet that allowed the rest of the heroes to go in or the Morg battle were they blew up the planet. And Thanos is not in this fights. What does this have to do with the fight against SS and the team?
Since he was caught off guard by Dracula, lost to Champion of the Universe and beat around by Thor. In addition, the Surfer had trouble with the Earth Eternals, during the Evolutionary War. So during all these situations the Surfer being able to blow up a planet meant nothing. As for Apocalypse, he lost to Cyclops's optic beam, which was being amplified by both Jean Grey and infant Cable. Did you read the issue, because that by far dwarfed any of Cyclops's other blast.
Diff. writers write Chars. diff. And Since then SS has shown more better abilities and upgrades. Surfer has shown more greater feats than the past, its called Char. growth, he grew more powerfull because of that. And you seemed to understimate what a planetary blast could do, have you seen or read any of this 4 withstanding a blast at that magnitude? And SS can do not just 1 but a lot more.
Now, referring to Magneto and the durability of his shields, well Magneto shields have stood up to the combined powers of Xmen, or even Avengers teams. Which have consisted of Thor or Hercules, and Magneto shields still provide enough resistance.
Is the combined assault enough to destroy a planet? This is a question i need answer from you. You keep giving me diff. scenarios. I want to know any of this guys surviving an assault that have enough force to destroy a planet.
Silver Surfer is fast, however he only approaches the speeds you're referring to in hyperspace, he doesn't casually in normal space move beyond light speed.
Have you heard of hit and run tactics, he can use that to his advantage. and he doesnt have to use that much speed against this Char. because by comparison they are very slow to him.
In addition, the Surfer's speed didn't keep him from being caught by the Eternals so he could be turned over to the Evolutionary. As for Surfer having potentially infinite strength, okay, why didn't he overcome the Champion. Since the Champion without the power gem couldn't beat She-hulk. Okay, so Surfer fights with Thor, Adam, and Champion, yet She-hulk beat Champion in a fair battle.
As i said before diff. writers write chars. diff. What does this have to do with this fight? SS is not fighting Champion, Evolutionary, the Eternals, etc.. His fighting against Apoc., Sinister, Magneto, Count Nefaria. Show me feats of this guys, not the others.
Well, have you read on Sinister since he has a history on being able to turn off other mutants powers. It has nothing to do with Sinster's powers surpassing the power cosmic. Since Doom doesn't have abilities that surpass the power cosmic or technology that is beyond Galactus's, but he still took Surfer's powers. So Surfer's powers would be in danger since Sinister has turned many powerful mutants powers off.
Again Doom is not Sinister, for goodness sake Doom manage to take not only the power of Beyonder but also, Galactus and the likes, this 2 are totally diff. Characters. And would you gave me at least an issue where Sinister has turned of a powers from a mutant not on his charged? You have to remember Heralds and Mutants are too completely diff. beings.
Actually I have read many Silver Surfer comics, however a lot of the feats you showed such as Surfer blasting planets or rearranging matter of beings were on beings that were significantly weaker than him. Such as the Skrulls, or even Super Skrull, Magneto is way above Super Skrull.
Okay i dont know what SS comics your reading but he has shown this abilities against Herald level opponenets and CB's. I need proof that this guys could handle SS that is being presented in this forum NO PIS OR CIS.
Originally posted by Rols
[B]How about his recent fight with Ravenous and lets not forget Infinity crusades when he blew that 1st defense planet that allowed the rest of the heroes to go in or the Morg battle were they blew up the planet. And Thanos is not in this fights. What does this have to do with the fight against SS and the team?
In Annihilation Surfer beat Ravenous, however Surfer was definitely stronger than him. As for his battle with Morg its no secret they can blow up planets. However, many power beings in the Marvel Universe can survive after the explosion of a planet. Also referring to Thanos was a response that Surfer's speed and planet destroying blast were too much for this fight. Yet, Surfers superior speed never factors in against him or other slower foes.
Diff. writers write Chars. diff. And Since then SS has shown more better abilities and upgrades. Surfer has shown more greater feats than the past, its called Char. growth, he grew more powerfull because of that. And you seemed to understimate what a planetary blast could do, have you seen or read any of this 4 withstanding a blast at that magnitude? And SS can do not just 1 but a lot more.
Is the combined assault enough to destroy a planet? This is a question i need answer from you. You keep giving me diff. scenarios. I want to know any of this guys surviving an assault that have enough force to destroy a planet.
Have you heard of hit and run tactics, he can use that to his advantage. and he doesnt have to use that much speed against this Char. because by comparison they are very slow to him.
Well, if the Surfer stays out of hyper space how much faster is he going to be than the other four. Since Magneto travels fast considering he's had multiple bases in space that he's attended to. In addition, Apocalypse aside from telekinesis for transportation could transform body parts into rockets, engines, or even transform into a high speed vehicle. In addition, Apocalypse could also transform into a deadly weapon, a large one to since he can alter his size. Plus, Apocalypse can also vary the power.
As i said before diff. writers write chars. diff. What does this have to do with this fight? SS is not fighting Champion, Evolutionary, the Eternals, etc.. His fighting against Apoc., Sinister, Magneto, Count Nefaria. Show me feats of this guys, not the others.
As for feats, Magneto shields held up against Phoenix, Avengers teams, X teams, and also Nuclear Weapons. Apocalypse stabbed Ikaris through the chest and outfought him entirely. In addition, Apocalypse split his body apart which caused all of Ikaris's attacks to go through him, and transforming into a fast flying vehicle and capturing and releasing the High Evolutionary. Also overpowered the Hulk and made him a servant. Sinister on the other hand in Inferno disregarded the Xmen's direct attack since they couldn't harm him. In addition, Sinister was inside Jeans mind destroying a memories, but several xmen kicked him out. Then Count Nefaria in Avengers # 166 shows that he's far superior to the like of Wonder Man.
Again Doom is not Sinister, for goodness sake Doom manage to take not only the power of Beyonder but also, Galactus and the likes, this 2 are totally diff. Characters. And would you gave me at least an issue where Sinister has turned of a powers from a mutant not on his charged? You have to remember Heralds and Mutants are too completely diff. beings.
Doom during the Secret war knew that Galactus had the power cosmic and constructed a machine to transfer Galactus's power into his being. Doom also did it to the Surfer. However, for one Galactus doesn't pay attention to many far lesser beings so Galactus could be a target to anyone that could build a similar machine. As for the beyonder, not being from this Universe was overly curious and naive, which led to Doom being able to absorb his power. In xfactor# 39 Sinister easily stops Cyclops from attacking him by mentally blocking his powers. Heralds and Mutanats are different however, mutants aren't all the same either. Since mutants range from the lower end all the way into mutants as powerful as Apocalypse and the Twelve.
Okay i dont know what SS comics your reading but he has shown this abilities against Herald level opponenets and CB's. I need proof that this guys could handle SS that is being presented in this forum NO PIS OR CIS.
Actually I have read much of the Silver Surfer series and seen him put down the Champion and various other powerful beings. So I understand the Surfer being presented. However, the Surfer presented wouldn't beat this team of four. Considering the Apocalypse presented alone would be a challenge for the Surfer. In addition, the Surfer has to deal with Magneto, Nefaria, and Sinister, and the Surfer probably doesn't know much about Sinister or Apocalypse so thats another disadvantage for the Surfer.
I still don't understand why you keep on bringing up Thanos, who is FAR more powerful than anyone on that team, in order to defend your view that the Team can win. How is the team even going to hurt Surfer? Surfer can shrink to the size of an atom if he wants. Also, how's Magneto supposed to survive in space for long? He needs air! His bases in space are in Earth orbit, while Surfer travels across the universe.
How is the team even going to hurt Surfer?
Magneto, who could absorbing power off the attacks.
Apocalypse on the other hand doesn't have to be hit since he could transform to easily avoid the attack.
Well, if the Surfer stays out of hyper space how much faster is he going to be than the other four.
In addition, Apocalypse aside from telekinesis for transportation could transform body parts into rockets, engines, or even transform into a high speed vehicle. In addition, Apocalypse could also transform into a deadly weapon, a large one to since he can alter his size.
Apocalypse stabbed Ikaris through the chest and outfought him entirely.
Well, the Surfer can be hurt a number of ways considering Nefaria and Apocalypse can both physically harm the Surfer with their strength. In addition, Magneto can mount an intense assault on Surfer with his Magnetic powers. Also, Magneto has used his powers to also mount mental attacks as well. Sinister has powerful telepathy and could attack the Surfer's mind or even reinforce Magneto's mental attacks to put a mental block on the Surfer. Plus, Apocalypse can adjust to the Surfer and counter attack.
So Magneto shield can now absorbs cosmic energy blast? When did this happens.
In Secret Wars # 5 Magneto's shields hold up against Galactus's cosmic energy blasts. Also in Xmen 112 Magneto's shield also manages against Phoenix. So I see no reason why Magneto's shield's won't hold up against the Silver Surfers cosmic blast.
So Apoc. now posses Godlike reflex even dough his been assaulted by the likes of Cable, Wolverine, Shiro, etc, etc whos not even close to the speed of Quicksilver which pales in comparison to the speed in which SS fights.
What does Apocalypse fighting Cable, Wolverine, and Sunfire have to do with this fight. Considering Apocalypse can adjust his power and body to deal with his current challenge. As for reflexes he out maneuverer the Evolutionary in space, so Apocalypse can react to the Surfer. Considering Thor, and Champion don't have the fastest reflexes and that doesn't hinder them against the Surfer. In addition, while on the subject of lower powered beings Spiderman has assaulted Surfer, and so has Dracula. They don't have Godlike reflexes.
A lot faster, Think about it, he could speed blits in the speed of lights (above it if he needs to) + This guys wouldnt know where he would be if he hits then run lightyears away since none of the four can see or sense that far.
He still cant move at the speed at which SS function. Its like comparing speed between a 18 wheeler against a Shiar starcruiser.
2 completly different chars w/ diff. set of powers. + SS>>>>>Ikaris
First, there is NO WAY that Sinister can touch Surfer telepathically. If Moondragon with the MIND GEM can't do it, what chance does Sinister have?
Second, Magneto's shields survived when Galactus GLANCED at their base, it wasn't him actually attempting to kill them.
Third, so Apocalypse can adjust his body? If he can take on the Surfer... why didn't he just do that when he was fighting all the other people who were beating him up?
Also, Morg has incredible speed as well as all of the rest of Galactus' heralds.
I don't see how Apocalypse knowing where the Surfer is will help, since all it tells him is exactly what direction death is coming from.
What does Apocalypse fighting Cable, Wolverine, and Sunfire have to do with this fight.QUOTE]
This have to do with the fact that this people manage to beat down and injure Apoc. and they are nowhere close to the speed at which SS function, this is why i mentioned wolverine, Sunfire, Havok and the likes.
[QUOTE]As for reflexes he out maneuverer the Evolutionary in space, so Apocalypse can react to the Surfer.
Considering Thor, and Champion don't have the fastest reflexes and that doesn't hinder them against the Surfer. In addition, while on the subject of lower powered beings Spiderman has assaulted Surfer, and so has Dracula. They don't have Godlike reflexes.
Apocalypse has sensors that could easily pick up the Surfer. Also without being in hyper space the Surfer's speed is limited, although he is still fast. In addition, morg with a pound from his axe left Surfer knocked out in space. So another situation where Surfer's speed does nothing. Plus, Surfer knew what to expect from another herald, but not from this team.
Can you prove it, considering Apocalypse can generate various types of energy which could serve as a propellant for him, whether he's a transformed vehicle or not. Also, again your referring to the Surfer's travel speed in hyper space if he's going light speed and beyond. Since the surfer has limits on his speed in normal space, and even more so if he's fighting.
How did you come to the conclusion that SS>>>>>Ikaris since they both have cosmic power and can both Increase their strength to Hulk levels. In addition, Ikaris is the most Powerful Eternal on Earth. So judging by that comment I not sure if you read the Evolutionary War. Since the Eternals easily captured Silver Surfer and were going to deliver him to the He. So I don't see how the Surfer is Superior to Ikaris. In addition, if the Surfer is so far above the Top Earth Eternal why can't he scratch Thanos
Originally posted by Rols
[B]Again Evolutionary does not function at the speed in which SS fights, he moves at human peak. SS is one of the most fastest and agile fighter in space. Apoc. is nowhere as agile in space fights against WM Thor, Runner, or Quazar who has manage to land blows against SS. Apoc. wouldnt last long against SS in space, He needs machine to sense people at far distance and he wouldnt have time to operate it.
Actually if you read the Evolutionary War the Evolutionary is defiantly fighting at a high speed. Have you read The Xfactor annual during the Evolutionary war since both Apocalypse and the Evolutionary are shown to be very agile in space when they fight. In addition, in Thor 473 the Evolutionary is seen flying at high speeds through space. So, High Evolutionary is definitely faster than peak human. In addition, Apocalypse has sensors on his body which can pick up people from far distances.
Thor possess near godlike reflex, and is in the light speed speed department. Spiderman is one of the fastest combatant out there, alot more faster than Apoc. SS has low and high feats... like anyother superheroes in comics
What is this in the light speed department , since Thor can't fight at light speed. In addition, neither does Thor fly that fast, but could probably reach escape velocity. As for Spiderman being a fast combatant, he is but faster than Apocalypse since when. Considering in the early xfactor issues Apocalypse easily out fought the team with his quickness and ability to elongate and by making his arms weapons. Plus, Apocalypse was quick enough to counter Beast and Quicksilver, showing how he can adapt to agility and speed.
Apoc. wouldnt have time to play w/ his sensor equipment cause SS would be all over them. Again Morg is a herald being meant to function in space, he is quite fast, SS beat the crap out of Morg and could have killed him. This team have never faced opponent at SS level of speed.
Where do you get this information Apoc. being able to generate various types of energy, you are making this up as you go. Again SS has been shown to function at the speed of light, godlike reflex, i dont have time to put all his speed feat. so just check the respect tread.
Well, first in the Xfactor annual in the Evolutionary War Apocalypse transforms his chest into a cannon, and later makes rockets at his feet while fighting the Evolutionary. But, nearing the end of the fight transforms into a high speed vehicle with different propellant than the rockets. Which shows he can transform into complex vehicles or weapons and produce complex molecular reactions inside his body to produce various forms of energy. Also in Uncanny xmen 295 Apocalypse's energy focuses directly on increasing his strength, which shows that Apocalypse can either tap or generate various types of energy to serve different needs. So, I'm not making this up, just referring to issues that I've read.
Ikaris is in the 40 ton department, while SS is over 100 and can amp. greater, Ikaris can fly at 1.1 x at the speed of sound, SS choose to fly at mach 8 fear of causing damage invironmentally, SS matter manipulation is way above that of Ikaris, Which means SS>>>>>>>>Ikaris. And Thanos well read about him..
In terms of strength the Surfer can reach class 100 and surpass it, however only after using his power cosmic. Since the Surfer's base strength is below class 100. As for Ikaris, he has cosmic power, so he could also increase his strength into that class. Considering even Olympians and Asgardian Gods who aren't class 100 also use their powers to amplify their strength to class 100. Also referring to Ikaris's speed, he easily reached Apocalypse's ship in orbit, so he's much faster. Plus, I have read about Thanos over the years and seen his feats.
Again nothing that you have showed me can even come close to hurting SS, plain and simple. While we have shown you feats of how SS can beat the four.
Actually Apocalypse and Magneto could harm the Surfer, since even the Surfer can be harmed if hit with enough force. Considering Apocalypse is strong enough, and versatile enough to hit the Surfer, In addition, Magneto could then assault the Surfer, which will also harm the Surfer if he can't avoid the attacks while dealing with Apocalypse. Also, in Silver Surfer 71 it's shown with enough physical force the Surfer can be ko, since he was by Morg. As for the feats shown on how Surfer could beat the four, I citied issues where Magneto shielded against Galactus and Phoenix, so Magneto's shields would also hold up against the Surfer's attacks. In addition, I explained how Surfer's powerful attacks wouldn't hit Apocalypse, since he was able to evade all of the Evolutionary's attacks.
Actually if you read the Evolutionary War the Evolutionary is defiantly fighting at a high speed. Have you read The Xfactor annual during the Evolutionary war since both Apocalypse and the Evolutionary are shown to be very agile in space when they fight. In addition, in Thor 473 the Evolutionary is seen flying at high speeds through space. So, High Evolutionary is definitely faster than peak human. In addition, Apocalypse has sensors on his body which can pick up people from far distances.
What is this in the light speed department , since Thor can't fight at light speed. In addition, neither does Thor fly that fast, but could probably reach escape velocity. Considering in the early xfactor issues Apocalypse easily out fought the team with his quickness and ability to elongate and by making his arms weapons. Plus, Apocalypse was quick enough to counter Beast and Quicksilver, showing how he can adapt to agility and speed.
As for Spiderman being a fast combatant, he is but faster than Apocalypse since when.
Again, Apocalypse has sensors on his body, which would pick up the Surfer. So Apocalypse won't need an outside machine. Since when has Surfer fought at speeds equivalent to speeds he travels at in hyper space. Considering I've read Surfer comics and Surfer has fought Thor, who doesn't fight at light speed, and Champion,who also doesn't fight at light speed, and has had trouble. So obviously the Surfer doesn't fight at the speeds he travels, but still is very fast. However, so are Magneto and Apocalypse, since they can both move quickly through space.
Well, first in the Xfactor annual in the Evolutionary War Apocalypse transforms his chest into a cannon, and later makes rockets at his feet while fighting the Evolutionary. But, nearing the end of the fight transforms into a high speed vehicle with different propellant than the rockets. Which shows he can transform into complex vehicles or weapons and produce complex molecular reactions inside his body to produce various forms of energy. Also in Uncanny xmen 295 Apocalypse's energy focuses directly on increasing his strength, which shows that Apocalypse can either tap or generate various types of energy to serve different needs. So, I'm not making this up, just referring to issues that I've read.
In terms of strength the Surfer can reach class 100 and surpass it, however only after using his power cosmic. Since the Surfer's base strength is below class 100. As for Ikaris, he has cosmic power, so he could also increase his strength into that class. Considering even Olympians and Asgardian Gods who aren't class 100 also use their powers to amplify their strength to class 100. Also referring to Ikaris's speed, he easily reached Apocalypse's ship in orbit, so he's much faster. Plus, I have read about Thanos over the years and seen his feats.
Actually Apocalypse and Magneto could harm the Surfer, since even the Surfer can be harmed if hit with enough force. Considering Apocalypse is strong enough, and versatile enough to hit the Surfer, In addition, Magneto could then assault the Surfer, which will also harm the Surfer if he can't avoid the attacks while dealing with Apocalypse. Also, in Silver Surfer 71 it's shown with enough physical force the Surfer can be ko, since he was by Morg. As for the feats shown on how Surfer could beat the four, I citied issues where Magneto shielded against Galactus and Phoenix, so Magneto's shields would also hold up against the Surfer's attacks. In addition, I explained how Surfer's powerful attacks wouldn't hit Apocalypse, since he was able to evade all of the Evolutionary's attacks.
Originally posted by Rols
[B]post some scans that says they're fighting at above super human speed in space, considering this chars. in bio, does not posses super human speed. Quit referring to the Apoc. and Evolutionary fight well you, it is well known that those 2 does not function at said speed. Again show some feats of him fighting someone who is a lot faster than him or show that he possess lightspeed reflexes. Ie(example). Cable fighting lightmaster(travel at the speed of taught) show me Apoc. fighting somebody like that. or close to it.
First, I referred to how Apocalypse very low on power easily managed to hit Quicksilver. Then, I also cited when the Evolutionary ko Thor and flew at high speeds through space. In addition, Sinister, Apocalypse, and Nefaria have reflexes way above peak human. Plus, Magneto with his magnetic powers can react quickly to many super fast beings. Also, whats Cable have to do with this fight, considering anyone on the team can outfight him. Also Lightmaster wasn't moving that fast ,and Spiderman has dealt with him before. So Cable beating Lightmaster doesn't mean Cable has lightspeed reflexes. I mean Living Laser can travel at lightspeed, however thats not the speed he fights, considering Ironman can fight him. So the Surfer can travel at lightspeed and several times faster statement means nothing for the Surfer since he doesn't fight at those speeds.
Thor is a lot faster than Apoc. He can fly at the speed of light, Godlike reflex, absorbes all forms of energy via Mjonir, this is why he is match to Surfer. Apoc. has never been shown to have this kind of feat. He has mostly fought and is defeated by the X-men<<<<<<<<Surfer.
Do you read Spiderman, are you saying Apoc. is as agile and fast as that. Would you read Apoc. bio, nothing is said about him being, able to track meteors, at 100 lightyears away or having sensors in his body, If you have scans post it.
Yes, I read spiderman, however Apocalypse was shown to be very agile and quick back in Xfactor. I also posted some scans, which show Apocalypse has sensors in his body. As for 100 lighyears away whats the have to do with this fight since the Surfer isn't going to be 100 light years away, since he would have to enter hyperspace to go that far.
Post some scans of Apoc. using his sensors. Surfer has fought at said speed, avoided meteor storms being hurled while going as fast as he could, fought the Runner, there is a lot of feat in his respect thread regarding his speed, Also checked Thor respect thread, you'll find out that his not Apoc. . Again show me scans where Magneto and Apoc. fought so fast in space that they can nearly match SS speed in battle cuase as far as i know, they are peak human in speed and reflex.
I've read plenty of Thor to know he can't fight a lightspeed. Also both Magneto and Nefaria have fared well against Thor in fights before. Again, Apocalypse is not peak human in speed and reflex, neither is Sinister or Nefaria. Since Nefaria is way above superhuman, and Sinister has superhuman reflexes, and Apocalypse can adjust his.
Scans!!! Is that what was Narrated? Does it actually says that he used Ie. EM energy to fuel his strength or Gamma for his shield. Post some scans to prove it, or direct as to site where it says it. I have most X-men issues and the Apoc. your describing am not too familiar with.
Read the issue! Since I have cited issues showing his strength against powerful opponents. As for Apocalypse in Xmen a lot of his abilities, which were displayed in his fights against He, Loki, and Ikaris weren't used when he fought against the Xmen.
I dont know where your getting all this info.. I've shown you proff of what he is capable of, yet just disregard it and make your own assumption. Again if you have proof or Scans to prove your point then ill gladly accept it. But right now your making a moot point. Okay you know about Thanos so quit comparing him to any of this team or the rest of the Eternals.
The references to Thanos were about your statements that Surfer fights at lightspeed and the power of his blast. However, I've read issues when Surfer directly attacks Thanos with his blast, which had no affect on Thanos. But, Magus managed beat around Thanos and overwhelmed him. Proving class 100 strength hits work on Surfer and even Thanos, yet the Surfer couldn't harm Thanos. So, considering the Team has Nefaria, who is easily class 100, and Apocalypse, who is also class 100, and variable in both size and density means Surfer has to deal with two powerhouses.In addition, Magneto has a lot of power behind his attacks and can lift object way over 100 tons. Not sure about Sinister's strength limits, but he has superhuman strength and reflexes.
You have no proof of both mastering strength equal to that of Morg. Apoc. have never been shown to punch and destroy a planet, or move at such speed that could caugth SS unaware and be hit. Again Morg is not 1 of this 2 or both have never shown to have feat that Morg has done. Show me some scans of Magneto defending against blast from Phoenix and Galactus, because ive diff. versions of it.
I've already cited issues, about Nefaria, Magneto, and Apocalypse. Also Nefaria's strength was enough to handle an Avengers team. In addition, Nefaria has durability that stood up with a direct shot from Thor's hammers, and Apocalypse easily manhandled Hulk. So, Their strength is enough for the Surfer, since the Surfer's base strength isn't class 100. Plus, I cited Magneto's shield feats against Galactus and phoenix in a previous post.
First, I referred to how Apocalypse very low on power easily managed to hit Quicksilver. Then, I also cited when the Evolutionary ko Thor and flew at high speeds through space. In addition, Sinister, Apocalypse, and Nefaria have reflexes way above peak human. Plus, Magneto with his magnetic powers can react quickly to many super fast beings.
Also, whats Cable have to do with this fight, considering anyone on the team can outfight him.Spiderman has dealt with him before
Since when could Thor fly at the speed of light. Considering I've read Thor comics, and he never flies that fast. In addition, as for Thor's reflexes both Magneto and Nefaria have fought Thor before. Thor's reflexes and power didn't present a problem. .
As for Apocalypse fighting and loosing to the Xmen, when has he lost when he has a stable body. Considering in X-cutioners song Apocalypse, with his body breaking down easily ko six xmen in sixty seconds. However, Apocalypse didn't finish them meaning he obviously has never planned to defeat the Xmen. So when under normal conditions he could easily beat the Xmen, so X-men<<<<<<<<Surfer has means nothing to Apocalypse or the rest of the teams power. In addition, you've shown nothing to prove Thor has faster reflexes than Apocalypse, considering Apocalypse could also elongate
, I've read issues when Surfer directly attacks Thanos with his blast, which had no affect on Thanos.
Nefaria, who is easily class 100, and Apocalypse, who is also class 100, and variable in both size and density means Surfer has to deal with two powerhouses.
Surfer's base strength isn't class 100.
Magneto's shield feats against Galactus and phoenix in a previous post.
.
So the Surfer can travel at lightspeed and several times faster statement means nothing for the Surfer since he doesn't fight at those speeds. As for 100 lighyears away whats the have to do with this fight since the Surfer isn't going to be 100 light years away, since he would have to enter hyperspace to go that far.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=495escd.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=f280scd.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=7e3escd.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=89cascd.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=bc3cscd.jpg&.src=ph
It does'nt show him fighting but its kinda similar, controlled meteorshower, avoiding meteors at near lightspeed.
This is whats going to happen to Nefaria if he somehow survived the first assault :http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=a5d5scd.jpg&.src=ph
This one shows he can control energy beings with use of there own energies:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=5b03scd.jpg&.src=ph
Here another type of attack, Warping the matter of space through the used of SofL:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=f4aescd.jpg&.src=ph
Heres His board Bomb + he can make a few of this:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=fb8bscd.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=2acbscd.jpg&.src=ph
Transforms All matter to energy including Psychic(Psionic):
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=5355scd.jpg&.src=ph
Heres some of his defensive abilities:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=5202scd.jpg&.src=ph his is desame girl that attack Tyrant.
Heres his shield: + he can make it so big to dwarf a whole Island.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=2b3escd.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=3b19scd.jpg&.src=ph
Absorbing psionic energy and throw it back:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=e905scd.jpg&.src=ph
Another psionic defensive/offensive attack against Pure psionic Cosmic Entities:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=ec60scd.jpg&.src=ph
Absorbes energy attack and limitless red giant star energy:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=801dscd.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=2ce1scd.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=9341scd.jpg&.src=ph
Here SS withstanding Full assault w/ Mind gem from Moondragoon:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=c0a0scd.jpg&.src=ph
Here withstanding AstroBlast like nothing:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=7412scd.jpg&.src=ph
Surviving and fighting inside Blackhole:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=d453scd.jpg&.src=ph
Went through Sun, and felt great afterwards, not many heroes can do that 🙄 :
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=f906scd.jpg&.src=ph
Seing past/present/future very handy in battle: How can you battle someone who knows whats your next move?
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=fb93scd.jpg&.src=ph
How can you fight somebody, who can become intangible or can shrink smaller than an atom?
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=96f9scd.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=6ad3scd.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rroldz/detail?.dir=79d8scd&.dnm=c9adscd.jpg&.src=ph
If you still think, this 4 can beat SS? Post some scans of this 4 having higher feat than this?
