never did look so cool? You're basing your judgement on looks?!
I'm sorry jinzin and soljer but i'm going back to the "parker is a panzy argument again."
lets not forget the 3 times spidey went up against cap, and in all 3 cap had the upper hands. and that spidey even said he would lose against cap. on panel. yep. and that his only chance of winning is the new suit that iron man gave him. on panel. yep. yep. yep.
Originally posted by rotiart
never did look so cool? You're basing your judgement on looks?!I'm sorry jinzin and soljer but i'm going back to the "parker is a panzy argument again."
lets not forget the 3 times spidey went up against cap, and in all 3 cap had the upper hands. and that spidey even said he would lose against cap. on panel. yep. and that his only chance of winning is the new suit that iron man gave him. on panel. yep. yep. yep.
Yep. Not to mention the Spidey-bot that COULD take Pete, but COULDN'T match Cap in hand to hand.
GOD DAMNIT, you!
You have me debating again!
*takes deep breath* I made my graceful exit from the debating in this thread just earlier. Stop it! I don't want to get drawn back in! 😛.
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<Spider-Man already soundly wins against Captain America. Iron Spider-Man has an additional four limbs and even better blunt force durability>
rotiart
<Each time cap and spidey have been in a confrontation where the closing distance started at 20 feet or less. Each in 3 different fights. Cap has had the upper hand against classic spidey. In the most recent spidey commented that he couldn't do anything against caps moves, because it wasn't like cap had lots of different moves, they all seemed to be one continuous fluid move. Spidey was amazed he got hit 3 times, and was winded by the hits. Spidey knew that he couldn't take cap, (probably remembering back to past confrontations) so he applied the one thing cap wouldn't be ready for, the suit, using it he got in one across cap's cheek. Then iron man broke it up.>
So your just gonna ignore everything that rotiart just said. When we were deabating the Namor VS Cap thread you said you have read Dark Crawlers respect thread. Why the double standards? When you see Namor doing things he shouldnt do, its accaptable but when you see Cap beating Spidey you just totally ignore it.
Namor does not have class 100 strength out of the water, but why do you see him doing class100 things. Does anyone have a problem with it....Nope. If its Cap people just totally ignore it.
Basically the comic gets the final word in with whats possible or not.
By the way does Namor have faster reflexes than Spiderman?
Originally posted by AlfheimRead the forum rules.
So your just gonna ignore everything that rotiart just said. When we were deabating the Namor VS Cap thread you said you have read Dark Crawlers respect thread. Why the double standards? When you see Namor doing things he shouldnt do, its accaptable but when you see Cap beating Spidey you just totally ignore it.Namor does not have class 100 strength out of the water, but why do you see him doing class100 things. Does anyone have a problem with it....Nope. If its Cap people just totally ignore it.
Basically the comic gets the final word in with whats possible or not.
By the way does Namor have faster reflexes than Spiderman?
Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics.
When Captain America fights Spider-Man, he somehow forgets he's so far beyond Captain America in every physical attribute it's not even funny. Iron Spider-Man has an invisible stealth mode. He didn't even need to come out of it in Civil War 3 when he hit Captain America, and if he had been hitting him with his full ~20 ton strength would have pulverized Captain America's face.
Captain America "beats" Iceman and Beast, Namor, and Spider-Man because they don't fight to their fullest and he has a 2 mile jobber aura. The forums are not a comic book. The forums have no writers protecting Captain America from losing.
From my understanding everytime Cap has come up against Spideyhe has done well its not PIS its a comic book! I repeat there are loads of times in Marvel when you see extrmely talented and peak human beings doing superhuman things. I mean Dr Doom doesnt even have superhuman intelligence but he can build things that are supposed to surpass those of some superhumanly intelligent characters or equal, also Hawkeye should not be able to do the things he does with his arrows. No PIS there!
Now with Beast and Iceman we already discussed how Iceman was concentrating on the Scarlet Witch. We have also discussed how that even Beast said that Captain America is almost as fast as him, that Cap sometimes has superhuman strength and is a FAR superior fighter.
Most of us agreed that it would be a close match between Beast and Cap.
You still didnt answer my question why is it when you see Namor doing class 100 feats out of water its not PIS?
Spider-Man does not fight to the best of his abilities when fighting Captain America in a comic book ergo it is PIS. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. PIS fights are not valid.
Deathstroke cannot lay a finger on a Flash. Nor can he beat a GL. Captain America dies against Iceman. And loses to Spider-Man the vast majority.
Namor depicted lifting things over 100 tons is a feat of strength beyond handbook powers. It isn't PIS. There is no lowering of an opponent's abilities in order to prolong a plot. Clinging to handbooks is generally frowned upon, they and Marvel.com are generally inaccurate especially with regards to less popular or less well known characters.
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<Captain America dies against Iceman.>
Yes we agreed
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<And loses to Spider-Man the vast majority.>
No he does not thats why he tends to do well against him. From what I heard Cap got in three punches and Spidey got one, technically if he cant have spidey he shoudlnt be able to do this either
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<Clinging to handbooks is generally frowned upon, they and Marvel.com are generally inaccurate especially with regards to less popular or less well known characters.>
So Namor is a less popular character is he? I thought every marvel fan knows who he is. So Marvel.com is inaccuarate, ok can you prove this? So im supposed to take your word over a source that has been approved by Marvel.
What im saying to you is this when it comes down to it the comics are the ultimate source if Cap repeatdely does superhuman feats that means that Cap is superhuman. If Namor lifts in class 100 out of water then he class 100. But if you dont have the comic you use the handbook, thats reasonable isnt it.
How do you know what Namor is capable of doing, by reading the comics. When you see Cap doing something over and over again how come thats not accepted.
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<Deathstroke cannot lay a finger on a Flash. Nor can he beat a GL.>
Cap has never punched anyone like quicksilver and has never beaten a cosmic character and Spidey is not as fast as flash or as powerful as GL, so this is a poor example.
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<Spider-Man does not fight to the best of his abilities>
Also it has been stated over and over again that Cap has fought villains who are on the similar power level as Spiderman who were obvoulsy trying to kill him, so you cant use holding back as an example.
My god, use actual quotes please.
Originally posted by AlfheimAnd? PIS is disregarded.
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<And loses to Spider-Man the vast majority.>No he does not thats why he tends to do well against him. From what I heard Cap got in three punches and Spidey got one, technically if he cant have spidey he shoudlnt be able to do this either
Originally posted by AlfheimRead. Comprehend. They are generally inaccurate. They are so with Namor. They are especially so with lesser known and less popular characters.
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<Clinging to handbooks is generally frowned upon, they and Marvel.com are generally inaccurate especially with regards to less popular or less well known characters.>So Namor is a less popular character is he? I thought every marvel fan knows who he is. So Marvel.com is inaccuarate, ok can you prove this? So im supposed to take your word over a source that has been approved by Marvel.
Originally posted by AlfheimBecause these "fights" do not take into account the abilities of both characters. A character, Spider-Man, is reduced in order to make a lesser powered character an actual challenge against said higher powered character.
What im saying to you is this when it comes down to it the comics are the ultimate source if Cap repeatdely does superhuman feats that means that Cap is superhuman. If Namor lifts in class 100 out of water then he class 100. But if you dont have the comic you use the handbook, thats reasonable isnt it.How do you know what Namor is capable of doing, by reading the comics. When you see Cap doing something over and over again how come thats not accepted.
Originally posted by AlfheimI am referring to the fact that Deathstroke has managed to injure Flash, both Wally and Bart. And somehow outwilled Kyle. Because they disregard the abilities of the more powerful opponent and the opponent do not perform to the best of their abilities these are examples of PIS. As is Captain America being able to punch Spider-Man.
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<Deathstroke cannot lay a finger on a Flash. Nor can he beat a GL.>Cap has never punched anyone like quicksilver and has never beaten a cosmic character and Spidey is not as fast as flash or as powerful as GL, so this is a poor example.
Originally posted by AlfheimShow me a fight where someone with the powers of Spider-Man uses them to their full against Captain America. Held back by personal character is CIS, held back by writers for sake of continuing story is PIS.
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<Spider-Man does not fight to the best of his abilities>Also it has been stated over and over again that Cap has fought villains who are on the similar power level as Spiderman who were obvoulsy trying to kill him, so you cant use holding back as an example.
Give me a plausible scenario where Captain America wins. What does he do? Throw the shield that can be dodged by his faster, more agile, more dextrous opponent who has better reflexes and precognition?
He is webbed up and pummelled to death.
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<My god, use actual quotes please.>
Is it against the rules, wanna stick to the subject.
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<Read. Comprehend. They are generally inaccurate. They are so with Namor. They are especially so with lesser known and less popular characters.>
Prove it! Prove Marvel.com is inaccurate.
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<Show me a fight where someone with the powers of Spider-Man uses them to their full against Captain America. Held back by personal character is CIS, held back by writers for sake of continuing story is PIS.>
Quote Soljer 1
<What of the Spidey-bot that Kang created? It had each and every one of Spider-man's powers. It matched Spiderman blow for blow. It then engaged Captain America in hand to hand and said "He's too Battle-wise, too Courageous, too dangerous! I'd be a fool to fight him on his terms!">
This robot was trying to kill him right? Therefore not holding back
Quote Solja 2
<What about Cap facing down the Scorpion and Hyde at the same time? Scorpion again? >
So what your trying to tell me is that Scorpion is not on the similar level as spidey, also on top of that he had to fight Mr Hyde too. Also where the scorpion and Mr Hyde holding back?