cap vs spider-man

yeah, that's probably for the best.

Im still standing by the missle feat though.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im still standing by the missle feat though.

Missile feat is just ridiculous. The bullet feat I think you could get away with though. Cap is quite a distance away from the shooters and pretty close to the person who he's blocking the bullets for. If we look at those two panels occuring concurrently (Cap and guy being spotted and the same times Cap realizes he's been spotted) its feasbile he could accomplish that.

Spider-Man can stop bullets like that though cause he's that fast.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Cue the "He dodges lasers! Lasers in zero gravity, I say!" bullshit.

You must understand that Spiderman doesnt move as fast as laser light (no where close) in order to dodge lasers. That is why he has precog (The ability to get out of the way before you actually fire the laser at him). So .001 sec before you pull the trigger on a laser gun he is out of the line of fire. That is how he dodges lasers. Do you still think its BS now? But he does move as fast as a bullet (or faster-when at his best).
As it has been shown numerous times.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but he still threw it after they fired the guns.

The first shots missed! (They seem to always miss in comics and movies)

That is why Cap said they were zeroing in (he said this after they had already shot). By the time the shield got there they had already zeroed on him. And if cap actually threw the shield faster than bullet speed (in which I just proved not) then it would have hit that person with death. (instantly splattering them or instantly bypassing them to make them vulnerable to more bullets).

Originally posted by marvelprince
Missile feat is just ridiculous. The bullet feat I think you could get away with though.

The speed of a bullet falls within the range of a missle.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Cap is quite a distance away from the shooters and pretty close to the person who he's blocking the bullets for. If we look at those two panels occuring concurrently (Cap and guy being spotted and the same times Cap realizes he's been spotted) its feasbile he could accomplish that.

No no no no no. He threw his shield after they fired the guns. Not before, after. Dont tell me its concurrent when you can see clearly that he threw his shield after.....shhhhessshh!

Until you can prove that Cap is having a flashback he has thrown his shield after.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Spider-Man can stop bullets like that though cause he's that fast.

So why cant Cap do it hes enhanced human?

Originally posted by h1a8
The first shots missed! (They seem to always miss in comics and movies)

Did you see the first shot miss. No. So stop putting things in that never actually happened

Originally posted by h1a8

That is why Cap said they were zeroing in (he said this after they had already shot). By the time the shield got there they had already zeroed on him.

They fired their guns, he threw his shield afterwrads. Furthermore Caps vison was blocked and he was far away, how would he know they were there until they fired.

Originally posted by h1a8

And if cap actually threw the shield faster than bullet speed (in which I just proved not) then it would have hit that person with death. (instantly splattering them or instantly bypassing them to make them vulnerable to more bullets).

You didnt prove anything, besides he threw his shield in front of the person.

This isn't really a match. Spiderman will most likely pummel Cap.

Not if Cap pummels Spider-Man first 😛

Well i can see this thread's debate standard dropping sometime soon 😛

spidey wins

Originally posted by Alfheim
The speed of a bullet falls within the range of a missle.

Further the two things you're comparing aren't comparable. In the missile thing the shield followed basically the same trajectory as the missile and sheered through it, meaning the shield would have to be going much faster than the missile. In the bullet thing the vector of the bullets and the vector of the shield are perpendicular; the path of the shield is much smaller than the path of the bullet and therefore would be moving slower.

Originally posted by Alfheim
No no no no no. He threw his shield [B] after they fired the guns. Not before, after. Dont tell me its concurrent when you can see clearly that he threw his shield after.....shhhhessshh![/B]

Light = boy's gauntlets.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The speed of a bullet falls within the range of a missle..

No it doesn't. And in the case of the missile he actually has to exceed the speed of the missile. Ridiculous

Originally posted by Alfheim
No no no no no. He threw his shield [B] after they fired the guns. Not before, after. Dont tell me its concurrent when you can see clearly that he threw his shield after.....shhhhessshh!.[/B]

You do realize that just because one panel comes after the next doesn't necessarily mean it happened after the next. A lot of things can happen similtaneously panel to panel.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Until you can prove that Cap is having a flashback he has thrown his shield after..

See above

Originally posted by Alfheim
So why cant Cap do it hes enhanced human?.

Because he's not as fast as Spider-Man. I understand you have love for Cap but do yourself a favor and except his limitations. Next you'll say Cap can fly and is stronger than Hulk cause he's enhanced human and cause this is just a comic book and their physics is wrong.

Originally posted by Alfheim
They fired their guns, he threw his shield afterwrads. Furthermore Caps vison was blocked and he was far away, how would he know they were there until they fired.

Wait. So you're saying Cap wasn't even they were there before they started talking? So that means they fired, Cap had time to speak to the guy and then intercept the bullets all in the time it took for the bullets to reach them. Superspeed talking part of Cap's enhanced human powers now?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The very lowest end of the speed range for ballistic missiles, which have an upper speed range in the Mach 20s.

Yeah so whats the lower end and whats the mid range speed? You tell me. Those guns were not ordinary guns by the way, they were obvoulsy some hi tech stuff.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Further the two things you're comparing aren't comparable. In the missile thing the shield followed basically the same trajectory as the missile and sheered through it, meaning the shield would have to be going much faster than the missile. In the bullet thing the vector of the bullets and the vector of the shield are perpendicular; the path of the shield is much smaller than the path of the bullet and therefore would be moving slower.

Ok but I will tell you this a rifle is said to be able to fire bullets around 1500m/s. If you look at those scans you can see that they are carrying some hi tech guns. The chances are the bullets will be flying faster than 1500m/s. The problem is we dont know for sure how fast they are travleing though but most likely much more than 1500m/s. Eventhough the distance is shorter Cap still had to be pretty fast.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Panels aren't always sequential, they can be concurrent, the writing definitely suggests that the the firing panel and the throwing shield panel are concurrent thus "--they're zeroing in on the boy's gauntlets already." matching the prior panel where the armed men yell "Light!" "Moving between the buildings over there!"

Light = boy's gauntlets.

My problem is how did Cap know they were there? If you look at the scans the only way the guys knew that the gauntlets were there was because of light reflecting off it. They didnt even know who or what it was they just fired, thats how far the kid was.

Furthermore there are crates obstructing Caps vision. The first crate is below Caps hieght but if you look at the first scan there would be other crates that would obstruct his view plus the guys are all the way at the other end.

Where was Cap when they fired the guns? Was he in front of the boy or was he right next to him? If he was in front of him the guys would have not seen the light. If he was standing next to thim, would he run to a spot which would make it more difficult for him to defend the boy. So basically Cap had to be were he was when he they fired the guns and the only way to know is by sound.

Originally posted by marvelprince
No it doesn't. And in the case of the missile he actually has to exceed the speed of the missile. Ridiculous

Well you take a look at Metalmanx's missle speeds. A rifle can fire a bullet up to 1500m/s those guns look more powerful than a rifle to me. The bullets would have been travelling much more than 1500m/s that falls within Metalmanx's speed range.

Originally posted by marvelprince

You do realize that just because one panel comes after the next doesn't necessarily mean it happened after the next. A lot of things can happen similtaneously panel to panel.

Ok.

Originally posted by marvelprince

See above

Ok

Originally posted by marvelprince

Because he's not as fast as Spider-Man. I understand you have love for Cap but do yourself a favor and except his limitations.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Next you'll say Cap can fly and is stronger than Hulk cause he's enhanced human and cause this is just a comic book and their physics is wrong.

You know what sometimes your a real ass you know that? Ive been debating with you for ages and your gonna come out with **** like that just because I have a different view point.

Thats what its like if we agree everythings cool, but if I disagree with you come out with **** like that.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Wait. So you're saying Cap wasn't even they were there before they started talking?

How did he know they were there?

Originally posted by marvelprince

So that means they fired, Cap had time to speak to the guy and then intercept the bullets all in the time it took for the bullets to reach them. Superspeed talking part of Cap's enhanced human powers now?

What on earth are you talking about. Characters do stuff like that in panels all the time it doesnt mean they can talk at superspeed.......shessssh.

According to what you said the panels are concurrent. So Cap started talking when they fired the bullets and he stopped talking when the shield blocked the bullets. So according to what you said it indicates that Cap had to be talking at superspeed as well. We shouldnt even be discussing this you are being an ass.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah so whats the lower end and whats the mid range speed? You tell me. Those guns were not ordinary guns by the way, they were obvoulsy some hi tech stuff.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok but I will tell you this a rifle is said to be able to fire bullets around 1500m/s. If you look at those scans you can see that they are carrying some hi tech guns. The chances are the bullets will be flying faster than 1500m/s. The problem is we dont know for sure how fast they are travleing though but most likely much more than 1500m/s. Eventhough the distance is shorter Cap still had to be pretty fast.

Originally posted by Alfheim
My problem is how did Cap know they were there? If you look at the scans the only way the guys knew that the gauntlets were there was because of light reflecting off it. They didnt even know who or what it was they just fired, thats how far the kid was.

Furthermore there are crates obstructing Caps vision. The first crate is below Caps hieght but if you look at the first scan there would be other crates that would obstruct his view plus the guys are all the way at the other end.

Where was Cap when they fired the guns? Was he in front of the boy or was he right next to him? If he was in front of him the guys would have not seen the light. If he was standing next to thim, would he run to a spot which would make it more difficult for him to defend the boy. So basically Cap had to be were he was when he they fired the guns and the only way to know is by sound.

Originally posted by Alfheim
You know what sometimes your a real ass you know that? Ive been debating with you for ages and your gonna come out with **** like that just because I have a different view point.

Thats what its like if we agree everythings cool, but if I disagree with you come out with **** like that.

Ass or no ass (gotta resist the urge to make a joke about that) your reasoning is terrible. If you keep falling back on the excuse that Cap is superhuman therefore he can do superhuman things then where does the limit lie. You choose to ignore the limitations the SSS and even the writers have given him so you tell me where it all ends.

Originally posted by Alfheim
How did he know they were there?

Could have seen them?

Originally posted by Alfheim
What on earth are you talking about. Characters do stuff like that in panels all the time it doesnt mean they can talk at superspeed.......shessssh.

Don't get yourself all worked up. That one was a joke

Originally posted by Alfheim
According to what you said the panels are concurrent. So Cap started talking when they fired the bullets and he stopped talking when the shield blocked the bullets. So according to what you said it indicates that Cap had to be talking at superspeed as well. We shouldnt even be discussing this you are being an ass.

🤨

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Mid range speed for what? Missiles or bullets? The fastest bullets travel at velocities akin to the slowest ballistic missiles.

Ok then do those guns look like ordinary guns? No most likey the bullets would be travelling faster then 1500m/s.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Ungrounded conjecture. And that had absolutely nothing to do with the part of my post you quoted - which was to do with the two things being dissimilar and not comparable as one involves perpendicular vectors (bullets) while the other involves parallel vectors (missiles).

What didnt I understand?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Further the two things you're comparing aren't comparable. In the missile thing the shield followed basically the same trajectory as the missile and sheered through it, meaning the shield would have to be going much faster than the missile.

That is self explanatory.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

In the bullet thing the vector of the bullets and the vector of the shield are perpendicular; the path of the shield is much smaller than the path of the bullet and therefore would be moving slower.

What your saying here is that this is different because the shield is not following the same path as the bullets. The distance between the shield and the boy is a shorter distance than the guys with the guns, therefore the two situations are not comparable, also the shield is not thrown in a straight line it is thrown at an angle which again makes it eaiser to intercept the bullets...right?

I understand prefectly. This is what im saying Cap still had to be fast. Those guns are not ordinary guns and most likely the bullets would have travelled faster than 1500m/s. You can see those guns thsoe guns look much bigger and more powerful than a rifle the bullets travelling at 3000m/s is not illogical. Therefore even though the dystance between the shield and the biy were shorter and the angle was perpendicular if we look at the speed at which the bullets were probably travelling it means Cap would have still had to be damn fast. Do you understand me?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Sound? Sound like people yelling "Light!" "Moving between the buildings over there!" perhaps? The scan shows strategy, skill and luck. It does not show Mach 10 arms.

Well would Cap be able to hear exactly what they are saying from that distance? He would be able to hear them shouting, but would he be able to hear exactly what they are saying and would he know they already have guns?

If he cant even hear exactly what they are saying he has still no way of knowing when they are going to fire. Therefore they only way he can intercept the bullets is by throwing the shield upon hearing the shots.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Ass or no ass (gotta resist the urge to make a joke about that) your reasoning is terrible. If you keep falling back on the excuse that Cap is superhuman therefore he can do superhuman things then where does the limit lie. You choose to ignore the limitations the SSS and even the writers have given him so you tell me where it all ends.

My reasoning is fine. Cap has been doing stuff like intercepting missles for ages. How can you say that it doesnt make sense for a character to do things when he has been doing stuff like that for ages. Has Cap ever flown before, no. Has Cap ever lifted a 100 tons before, no.

Dont tell me about the writers. The writers have shown for years that Cap can do things like intercept missles.

Its the same **** with Bullseye. Does Bullseye have superhuman strength in his fingers? So explain to me how somebody can use a toothpick to smash through a glass window and kill a woman at 100 yards.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Could have seen them?

Well if you see where he was standing and the guys are standing its unlilkely that he can see theM.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Don't get yourself all worked up. That one was a joke

🤨

I thought you were serious, nevermind.

Originally posted by Alfheim
My reasoning is fine. Cap has been doing stuff like intercepting missles for ages. How can you say that it doesnt make sense for a character to do things when he has been doing stuff like that for ages. Has Cap ever flown before, no. Has Cap ever lifted a 100 tons before, no.

I can't recall Cap doing that for ages. Especially not in an environment like that. A feat like that actually would require class 100 strength

Originally posted by Alfheim
Dont tell me about the writers. The writers have shown for years that Cap can do things like intercept missles.

Years? Really?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Its the same **** with Bullseye. Does Bullseye have superhuman strength in his fingers? So explain to me how somebody can use a toothpick to smash through a glass window and kill a woman at 100 yards.

Ah, but with Bullseye you get explanation upon explanation how he's able to do the things he does. Plus he does them everytime he appears. Cap on the other hand has well defined powers and well defined limitations. If we look at each abstract feat that a character pulls off then I should be able to say without a shadow of a doubt that Spider-Man can beat Firelord and the Hulk. Its all a matter of discretion

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well if you see where he was standing and the guys are standing its unlilkely that he can see theM.

I don't think its unlikely. Besides, does seem like guys were being very stealthy. You know, with them talking an all.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I thought you were serious, nevermind.

Np

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok then do those guns look like ordinary guns? No most likey the bullets would be travelling faster then 1500m/s.

Originally posted by Alfheim
What didnt I understand?

That is self explanatory.

What your saying here is that this is different because the shield is not following the same path as the bullets. The distance between the shield and the boy is a shorter distance than the guys with the guns, therefore the two situations are not comparable, also the shield is not thrown in a straight line it is thrown at an angle which again makes it eaiser to intercept the bullets...right?

The bullets:
The men are ~200 m away from the boy. Captain America maybe 10 m. 1500 m/s, 200 m = 0.13 s. 10 m/0.13 s = 75 m/s.
Which is actually perfectly plausible really, especially if one takes that Captain America threw the shield just before bullets were fired.

The ballistic missile:
Let's be generous and say only 1 second has passed since their launch before Captain America throws his shield even though dialogue indicates otherwise.
1 second, 1500 m/s = 1500m. So a 1500 m headstart.
Let's say it takes the shield about 1 second to catch up to the missile.
In order for the shield to catch up to the missile in 1 second it must travel at a velocity to cover that 1500 m and the distance the missile travels in 1 second i.e. 1500 m. 3000 m/s. (NB the velocity required varies depending upon the time taken to catch up, but never below 1500 m/s [time=infinity])

You're comparing ~75 m/s with ~3000 m/s.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I understand prefectly. This is what im saying Cap still had to be fast. Those guns are not ordinary guns and most likely the bullets would have travelled faster than 1500m/s. You can see those guns thsoe guns look much bigger and more powerful than a rifle the bullets travelling at 3000m/s is not illogical. Therefore even though the dystance between the shield and the biy were shorter and the angle was perpendicular if we look at the speed at which the bullets were probably travelling it means Cap would have still had to be damn fast. Do you understand me?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well would Cap be able to hear exactly what they are saying from that distance? He would be able to hear them shouting, but would he be able to hear exactly what they are saying and would he know they already have guns?

If he cant even hear exactly what they are saying he has still no way of knowing when they are going to fire. Therefore they only way he can intercept the bullets is by throwing the shield upon hearing the shots.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Supposition.
Here I'll make it incredibly simple for you and for the purposes of comparison I'll even humor you and assume the bullets and ballistic missiles are the same speed even though ballistic missiles in general are faster given the overall range in speed, and assume that the bullets and shield are projected at the same time even though the dialogue indicates the shield was thrown before shots were actually fired.
Look there's even a pretty diagram for you.

The bullets:
The men are ~200 m away from the boy. Captain America maybe 10 m. 1500 m/s, 200 m = 0.13 s. 10 m/0.13 s = 75 m/s.
Which is actually perfectly plausible really, especially if one takes that Captain America threw the shield just before bullets were fired.

The ballistic missile:
Let's be generous and say only 1 second has passed since their launch before Captain America throws his shield even though dialogue indicates otherwise.
1 second, 1500 m/s = 1500m. So a 1500 m headstart.
Let's say it takes the shield about 1 second to catch up to the missile.
In order for the shield to catch up to the missile in 1 second it must travel at a velocity to cover that 1500 m and the distance the missile travels in 1 second i.e. 1500 m. 3000 m/s. (NB the velocity required varies depending upon the time taken to catch up, but never below 1500 m/s [time=infinity])

You're comparing ~75 m/s with ~3000 m/s.
I think the guns look bigger therefore they fire bullets at twice the speed. There's nothing to say the bullets are any faster or slower than 1500 m/s even that is taking a high estimate already. Unfounded conjecture.
Thread after thread raving on about how Captain America is superhuman, yet he can't even hear two men yelling things.

Nice summation