Exar Kun & DE Sidious vs. Ragnos & Sadow

Combatants:

a. Exar Kun, Dark Lord of the Sith, warlord and conquerer.
b. DE Palpatine, Dark Lord of the Sith, Emperor of the galaxy.
c. Naga Sadow, Dark Lord of the Sith (?), Sith Alchemist.
d. Marka Ragnos, Dark Lord of the Sith, Dark Side tyrant.

Setting: The Grand Convocation Chamber of the Galactic Senate (the Senate Rotunda); thus allowing these four Dark Lords to use the environment to their advantage.

Weapons: Each Sith Lord possesses a lightsaber (no Sith swords), and all of their Force attacks.

Round One: Lightsabers only.
Round Two: Force powers only.
Round Three: Anything Goes (except for amulets)
Round Four: Anything Goes (amulets allowed)

Synopsis: The two most powerful post-Ancient Sith and the two most powerful Ancient Sith battle one another for total supremecy.

lol dude why are you copying Mokoto?

Anyways,

1. Kun and Sids.
2. Kun and Sids.
3. Kun and Sids.
4. Kun and Sids. It would be close.

'Synopsis: The two most powerful post-Ancient Sith and the two most powerful Ancient Sith battle one another for total supremecy.'

That would be Tulak Hord and Ajunta Pall versus Darth Sion and Darth revan.

lol dude why are you copying Mokoto?

How am I copying Motoko?

Anyways,

1. Kun and Sids.
2. Kun and Sids.
3. Kun and Sids.
4. Kun and Sids. It would be close.

We (debators) are fond of doing something on KMC that you're going to have to learn to perform. Want to know what that is? Justification. You have to back up what you say, and I know that that is going to be a completely difficult concept to you, but work on it, please.

'Synopsis: The two most powerful post-Ancient Sith and the two most powerful Ancient Sith battle one another for total supremecy.'

That would be Tulak Hord and Ajunta Pall versus Darth Sion and Darth revan.

Um... no. No, it wouldn't.

Amazing. If a character is mentioned on KotoR, they must be god. However, that taboo - I'm afraid - is vastly incorrect. Each of these combatants are superior to the ones you mentioned.

Originally posted by Escape81
How am I copying Motoko?

You're not, lol. Just because I don't like my versus threads to look like shit ("l0l ex4r kun vS lud0 kr355h!!!// lol wh0 w1ns?!"😉, and neither does Escape (and he made a better detailing than me), doesn't mean he's copying me. In fact, I might just copy his format next time I make a thread, lol.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
You're not, lol. Just because I don't like my versus threads to look like shit ("l0l ex4r kun vS lud0 kr355h!!!// lol wh0 w1ns?!"😉, and neither does Escape (and he made a better detailing than me), doesn't mean he's copying me. In fact, I might just copy his format next time I make a thread, lol.

Oh. Well, lol, I don't think I ever have. I don't simply make a thread that says "who wins?" in the first post. But thanks for the compliments. I love you. 😛

PS - what do you think?

'How am I copying Motoko?'

The fancy thread openers. Dude you know it.

'We (debators) are fond of doing something on KMC that you're going to have to learn to perform. Want to know what that is? Justification. You have to back up what you say, and I know that that is going to be a completely difficult concept to you, but work on it, please.'

😛

'Um... no. No, it wouldn't.

Amazing. If a character is mentioned on KotoR, they must be god. However, that taboo - I'm afraid - is vastly incorrect. Each of these combatants are superior to the ones you mentioned.'

That's right my friend.

Originally posted by Escape81
[B]Combatants:

a. Exar Kun, Dark Lord of the Sith, warlord and conquerer.
b. DE Palpatine, Dark Lord of the Sith, Emperor of the galaxy.
c. Naga Sadow, Dark Lord of the Sith (?), Sith Alchemist.
d. Marka Ragnos, Dark Lord of the Sith, Dark Side tyrant.

Setting: The Grand Convocation Chamber of the Galactic Senate (the Senate Rotunda); thus allowing these four Dark Lords to use the environment to their advantage.

Weapons: Each Sith Lord possesses a lightsaber (no Sith swords), and all of their Force attacks.

Round One: Lightsabers only.
Round Two: Force powers only.
Round Three: Anything Goes (except for amulets)
Round Four: Anything Goes (amulets allowed)

Synopsis: The two most powerful post-Ancient Sith and the two most powerful Ancient Sith battle one another for total supremecy. [/B]

Round 1: This is a tough one because we know very little about the abilities of the ancient sith in saber combat, especially since they carried swords. We know they are powerful and quick but its not conclusive.
On this forum I guess since it's inconclusive about the ancient sith, even though Ragnos is a "Champion warrior with tremendous strength", i'd have to give it to the post ancient sith due to principle.

Advantage: Post- Ancient Sith

Round 2: Scenerio A. I'd say the two most powerful ones here would be Ragnos and Sidious, so this is also a tough one. We do not know conclusively if Ragnos can use the drain ability without the scepter, but we do know that Sadow has the amulet and the ancient sith most likely have a defense for it. Since this isn't Yoda, there is less evidence to support Kun or DE Sidious blocking it, as opposed to the ancient sith who created these things. So in this case
Advantage: Ancient Sith

Scenerio B. Sidious gets off his force storm. The problem with this is despite what some people say, he DOES need room to operate it, so the best case scenario is him being able to release it while Kun dies at the hands of the ancient sith, and then he comes out the victor. Worst case scenario is Sidious cannot get it off before Ragnos does something sexy, like use his scepter. However since I don't know if he knows the technique without it, which I think he does, it's inconclusive.
Advantage: Inconclusive

Round 3: Pretty much the same as round 2 except no amulets, meaning the only conclusive thing is Palpatine's Force storm.
Advantage: Post-Ancient Sith

Round 4: With anything goes, I believe this goes to the ancient sith, as Ragnos would drain the two before Sidious has the ability to create his force storm. The amulets would technically cancel each other out, except for the fact that Sadow most likely knows a technique to defend against it as opposed to Kun.
Advantage: Ancient Sith

'How am I copying Motoko?'

The fancy thread openers. Dude you know it.

Please. Go back and see some earlier threads that I've made. Thanks.

We (debators) are fond of doing something on KMC that you're going to have to learn to perform. Want to know what that is? Justification. You have to back up what you say, and I know that that is going to be a completely difficult concept to you, but work on it, please.

😛

Here's the problem: I wasn't kidding.

'Um... no. No, it wouldn't.

Amazing. If a character is mentioned on KotoR, they must be god. However, that taboo - I'm afraid - is vastly incorrect. Each of these combatants are superior to the ones you mentioned.'

That's right my friend.

Oh, okay. Then you've just agreed with me, then.

Round 2: Scenerio A. I'd say the two most powerful ones here would be Ragnos and Sidious, so this is also a tough one. We do not know conclusively if Ragnos can use the drain ability without the scepter, but we do know that Sadow has the amulet and the ancient sith most likely have a defense for it. Since this isn't Yoda, there is less evidence to support Kun or DE Sidious blocking it, as opposed to the ancient sith who created these things. So in this case
Advantage: Ancient Sith

The amulets were excluded from all but the first round. And, as I told you, Ragnos wouldn't have created the scepter if he didn't need it for its energy.

Scenerio B. Sidious gets off his force storm. The problem with this is despite what some people say, he DOES need room to operate it, so the best case scenario is him being able to release it while Kun dies at the hands of the ancient sith, and then he comes out the victor. Worst case scenario is Sidious cannot get it off before Ragnos does something sexy, like use his scepter. However since I don't know if he knows the technique without it, which I think he does, it's inconclusive.
Advantage: Inconclusive

Ragnos, Sidious, Kun, and Sadow can not use artifacts outside of their weapons.

Ah. Okay. Edited.

Originally posted by Escape81
The amulets were excluded from all but the first round. And, as I told you, Ragnos wouldn't have created the scepter if he didn't need it for its energy.

Ragnos, Sidious, Kun, and Sadow can not use artifacts outside of their weapons.

Ah. Okay. Edited.

Escape we can have this debate all day long about whether they needed their amulets or not. But you should read Nai's argument about the fact that he knew the technique otherwise he wouldn't have put it into his scepter. But that's really irrelevant, I think I made a pretty accurate post.

Exar can probably hold off Ragnos long enough for Sidious to finish Sadow...together, Sidious and Exar can finish Ragnos, even if not seperately. And sadow and Ragnos would likely...not handle sabers too well.

Sidious and Exar can comfortably take most of this. As swordsmen, DE Sidious is likely superior to Naga.

Force only? Tougher. It depends on who falls First. If Sidious pulls off something on Sadow with one of his instakills or uses a smaller force storm-he can control size, probably Exar and Palpatine.

Anything goes without artifacts: Probably a repeat of one of the above two fights. With artifacts? That one's trickier, since Kun can balance Sadow out...or Sidious can use him as a sacrificial lamb as he deals with Marka or uses a smaller version of a force storm...Sidious is likely capable of modifying destructive power as he can use it as a transport engine.

Round 1: Exar Kun and Darth Sidious win.

I think Exar Kun has demonstrated his worth enough with the lightsaber, on top of the fact he is armed with a double bladed lightsaber never seen before by either of these Ancient Sith. Sidious, while I don't think he's kept up with his saber skills, is still a formidable opponent defeating three Jedi Masters in seconds, and they were all described as "four of the Order's finest swordsbeings".

Sadow has never demonstrated any impressive dueling abilities, and neither has Ragnos. And so, based of what we see, and is logical - Exar Kun and DE Sidious take this.

Round 2: Exar Kun and DE Sidious

Since this is Force powers only, I'm assuming it's not including their technology (amulets, sceptor, etc.), so Sidious' Force storm clearly would own Ragnos and Sadow - among his other techniques (Morichro, etc.), As well, Sadow and Exar Kun both know Sith magic and alchemy, but Exar Kun also killed Odan Urr with the swipe of a hand, so I'm inclined to say that Exar Kun and DE Sidious win anyways.

Round 3: Exar Kun and DE Sidious

Clearly, since Exar Kun and DE Sidious won both Force powers and the lightsaber battle - they should win this. Again, it's just adding up all we know about Sidious, who seems to be the most superior in the Force here, and Exar Kun, who seems to be the most superior in dueling abilities.

Round 4: Exar Kun and DE Sidious

I assume this isn't including Ragnos' sceptor? Either way, Kun has shown us more abilities with Sadow's amulet than Sadow himself (doesn't necessarily mean he's the superior in using it though), and I'm going to say that Exar can hold off Sadow with his own amulet anyways, so I'd say Exar and Sidious win, though this battle will be more difficult than the others likely.

Originally posted by Escape81
Here's the problem: I wasn't kidding.

LOL. 😆

But you should read Nai's argument about the fact that he knew the technique otherwise he wouldn't have put it into his scepter.

Nai was saying he'd have to know how to use the technique for him to put it in his sceptor, right (I only skimmed through it)? How does that make sense? Can Sadow cause solar manipulations without his ship? Can he shoot beams out of his ass? Can Exar Kun trap life energy without the sphere he made?

Sounds like escape made a great thread, I'll be back later with my rebuttal Sama, Escape.

Good points gentlemen (and the lovely lady... 😉).

Why thank you.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Why thank you.

Erm... excluding you. 😛

ORYL? 😛

Hrm....

LS pretty much proved thay DE Palps is the most powerful sith of all time. And I would guess that Exar Kun is more powerful than Naga Sadow, because Ragnos chose Kun, not Sadow, to lead the sith to a new golden age.

Ragnos is at this point, completely unknown as far as his abilities go. However we have reason to believe that Sidious is more powerful, therefore IMHO Sidious + Kun take this.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Escape we can have this debate all day long about whether they needed their amulets or not. But you should read Nai's argument about the fact that he knew the technique otherwise he wouldn't have put it into his scepter. But that's really irrelevant, I think I made a pretty accurate post.

No, you cannot.

I'm afraid that you have nothing but an assumption and an opinion on your side, whereas my side possesses proof that Sadow and Kun did not use these blasts without the assistance of an amulet. Furthermore, we have already proven that Sadow required his ship to perform his other feat - so why wouldn't the same apply here?

I don't operate on just ironclad proof, but what proof I have overrules your opinion. I tried to explain this concept to GM Nebaris. Just because he has an opinion and so-called "logical deduction" does not mean that either of those things overrules evidence.

Evidence > "logical deduction" - especially when the one performing the 'logical deduction' is illogical. (ie: Lumiya being superior to Sidious; Revan owning all; Sion owning all).

Evidence > "opinion".

So, Motoko, Lightsnake, and myself have proof - whereas you and GM Nebaris do not.

Until such a time that you can prove that Sadow didn't require the amulet blasts or that Ragnos didn't require his scepter, then logical deduction indicates that they required these two artifacts to perform the feats in question. Why else would they need them?

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Nai was saying he'd have to know how to use the technique for him to put it in his sceptor, right (I only skimmed through it)? How does that make sense? Can Sadow cause solar manipulations without his ship? Can he shoot beams out of his ass? Can Exar Kun trap life energy without the sphere he made? [/B]

What people commonly ignore regarding this topic is, that we're talking about force powers here and not some physical powers and "tools" able to use them.

So...to create an artifact that is capable of performing a force drain - you must know the "force drain" before. And once you know the technique the "scale" in which it's used is irrelevant. It makes much more sense then simply stating he doesn't know a certain technique but still manages to create a tool which is capable of performing it.

And please.
If some weakass freak like Brakiss can create Solar flares with almost no training, I guess a century old Sith Lord can pull it of.
If Aleema Keto can shoot some energy beams out of her hands that desintegrate flesh - I'm pretty sure that Sadow can do that too.
And if Sidious without any artifacts used can "trap" and "use" the life-energy of the people on Byss, I don't see any reason why Kun shouldn't be able to do the same.