proof BluRay is winning over hd dvd!

Started by Evil Dead5 pages

somebody is going to win........it's going to be DVD, HD-DVD and Blue Ray both lose. Fullfilling a small niche (tech junkies for HD-DVD and Blue Ray for Gaming) does not make a format a success.

type as many paragraphs as you wish, john q. public still doesn't care about HD quality. You're in the vast minority c-dic. To us, it's just a disc......like the shelf full of discs we already have. Until a format comes along that can offer us something more that just a disc, like the discs we already have..........dvd is going nowhere. It doesn't seem as though I'm the only one displaying ignorance.......yours seems to be chosen.

It's just pointless to call a race before it's over, man. If anyone's going to lose, it will be Blu-ray, because of the numerous flaws in the technology, the production cost, and the fatal errors it has already experienced in the faulty chips, the CODECS, the shortage of blue diodes, the cell yields, etc. HD-DVD, aside from a slow boot up time, has been smoother than a baby's ass so far.

People are buying HDTV's. It's not as small a market as everyone may think, considering HD broadcasting will be the norm in less than 3 years time. People have no CHOICE but to upgrade, otherwise, they simply won't be able to watch TV without severe complications with the picture. So severe, standard television will be unbearable to watch. This whole "Blu-ray for gaming" deal? What sense does that make? Blu-ray's only association with the gaming industry is that it's being included in the higher end PS3. Other than that, there's no connection, and there won't be any such thing as a BR game, as there are no HD games, only consoles that feature games that are encoded in 1080i rez (i.e. 360).

..and as I have said before, HD-DVD isn't gearing towards J6P. It's for enthusiasts, and those who want the next big thing. That said, it's caught on just fine to their target audience, is already a success, so calling something a "failure" when it's obviously making money is just unfair.


To us, it's just a disc......like the shelf full of discs we already have. Until a format comes along that can offer us something more that just a disc, like the discs we already have..........dvd is going nowhere.

How can you have such a strong opinion of something that you don't seem to know anything about? Honestly. I've never known you to be so out of the loop when it comes to..well..anything. HD-DVD blows standard discs out of the water. Do regular DVD's have a 1080p resolution? No, they have 420p. Do they have TruHD 5.1/7.1? No, they've got DD 5.1. Do they have a running video commentary with the movie? No, they have an audio commentary. Do they have 30GB of disc space? No, they have 5GB. I mean, what DOESN'T it have that Standard DVD has?

I realize not everyone's going to jump on the HD bandwagon, and they're not expected to either, given the price differences. But, again, eventually, people are going to see and appreciate the differences, and eventually, have no choice but to upgrade their TV sets if they want to watch television properly. HDTV's are affordable now more than ever before.

I don't think I'm being ignorant at all. I'm looking at it from all sides, not calling HD/BR a failure when it's an entirely new technology. You just seem to be jumping to conclusions, making it look like I've already called SD-DVD obsolete, when I haven't, and just reiterating what I've already said, with a negative spin. I acknowleged it's not for everyone, and I also backed up the claim that it's a somewhat small market. I read aboute the going's-on of the format every single day, I'm on every single development. You tossed out some falsified information, and presented some strong opinions that seemed a little more biased than educated/enlightened, and I just followed up.

BTW, don't take any of that too personal. It's just kind of hard trying to find any justification in a lot of what you've said lately. I'm just trying to put out what I know, mix it with how I view the whole format, and get across the advantages, as well as the fact that I know that early adopters are in the minority.

It's not a failure, though. That I can prove. 😛

I'm gonna be a little nit-picky here. 😛

Originally posted by C-Dic
People are buying HDTV's. It's not as small a market as everyone may think, considering HD broadcasting will be the norm in less than 3 years time. People have no CHOICE but to upgrade, otherwise, they simply won't be able to watch TV without severe complications with the picture. So severe, standard television will be unbearable to watch.

When television converts entirely to HD technology, people with satellite won't have to worry about upgrading their TVs. And if I remember correctly, there will be converters for those without satellite.

Originally posted by C-Dic
Do they have a running video commentary with the movie? No, they have an audio commentary.

What do you mean video commentary? The Men in Black DVD (the original one at least, I'm not sure about the SE) had a commentary with Tommy Lee Jones and Barry Sonnenfeld where it looked like a MST3k episode. Only they were doing sketches and such on the screen, circling what they are pointing out for example.

The UHF commentary is actually partly video. In one scene towards the end, Weird Al stands up and shouts at someone. It came to me as a shock that he just popped out of the corner.

Really, I think you're both right. ED is right in that HD technology won't surpass standard DVD anytime in the forseeable future, and that right now it is such a small niche who have or care about them, that if comparing the formats to DVD, they are and probably will be a failure.

However, when looking at the big picture, and taking into consideration that HDTV's are becomming more and more affordable and necessary, eventually HDDVD's will become the norm.

But, both Bluray and HD-DVD have an inherent disadvantage of having a direct competition with eachother. The fact that there are two formats severely hurts the HD entertainment industry, seeing as movies are being split among the formats. Plus, it looks as both will be around for a while, at least as long as PS3 and 360 are the main home video consoles.

One thing is for sure, it will be an interesting battle, it's just many people, myself include are worried that they'd pick the losing format, and as a result, simply aren't buying either, and have no plan on buying either as long as there are two options. As Steven Colbert said on his show "You know which format will lose the war? Whichever one you buy".

HD dvd just seems like a waste of money to me at the moment. i love movies and the dvd provides me with the means to watch them. i have a big tv and speakers around the room. i know no one around my area is gonna upgrade to HD.

Here's where I'm coming from C-dic......

Yes, HD-DVD has a huge technical advantage over DVD as it offers much better quality. The public still does not care. We don't need HD......there isn't a demand for it. It is a tech junkie niche, just as laser disc was. Other than quality, to 90% of the country, it's just a dvd with better quality that we don't care about......we're fine with our regular dvds. The picture is good....it's what we're accustomed to......and there's still plenty of room for bonus features.

you know your HD-DVD......HD-TV.....Surround sound set-up you've got in your living room? You are in the VAST minority. Most of us don't care. We sit on our couch and put a movie in and watch it. That simple. You don't seem to realize this.

Your comparison of HD-DVD to HD-TV is completely unwarranted. Yes, we will upgrade......not because we have this great desire, because we'll have to. A person is hard pressed to walk into Best Buy and find a tv that isn't HD or HD compatible. We have no choice, we buy a new tv and it just so happens it's HD.......even though we just want to buy a tv. HD doesn't figure into the equation. Televison will be broadcast in HD......again, there isn't a huge calling for it.......it's just something they're doing to appeal to everybody, giving the tech junkies what they want and the other 90% HD even if they don't want it......it's not like we're going to complain about the better quality.

This in no way affects what format somebody chooses to buy. We don't choose HD-TVs.....the manufacturers do. We don't choose HD programming.......the networks/cable companies do. We do actually have a choice when it comes to which disc we throw in our shopping cart......and to most of us, one is just as good as the other because we don't care about the better quality........just as those millions buying VHS didn't care about laser-discs far superior quality. The only way HD-DVD will ever trump dvd is if regular dvd stops being produced.......which I don't believe will ever happen as I don't believe HD-DVDs market share will ever even come close to 50% so no studio is going to stop producing films on the dvd format, losing all those sales for any given title. As stated earlier, HD-DVD will have it's techie niche until a new format comes along and erases both HD-DVD and DVD at the same time as it will have the same quality as HD-DVD (for the techies) aswell as practical upgrades for the common man, like being smaller and more durable.

As for Blue-Ray......it is the way for the future of gaming. The PS4 will have them standard in all models.......the PS3 will have an add-on for the lower end PS3 models that come factory direct without them. The sole reason is their storage capacity. It's the same reason DVDs were used for PS2 and Xbox as opposed to CDs. You can fit more data on the disc. Saying Blue Ray won't be used for gaming is akin to saying, "sony will never use DVDs in the PS2.....they'll stick with cds". It's the exact same reason they changed formats before. More starage capacity = more data per disc. More data per disc = larger games and/or better graphics.

It will however go nowhere with the film industry as it's a moot format with dvd and hd-dvd already out there. It offers no advantage over either.......actually less over hd-dvd.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
The only way HD-DVD will ever trump dvd is if regular dvd stops being produced.......which I don't believe will ever happen as I don't believe HD-DVDs market share will ever even come close to 50% so no studio is going to stop producing films on the dvd format, losing all those sales for any given title.

As of now, HD-DVD is only available for select titles, the titles they deem are worth the extra quality. I believe it'll stay that way. We have seen no TV shows on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray and is there a marketplace to put A Night at the Roxbury on HD-DVD? I doubt it.

Originally posted by Wolfie

When television converts entirely to HD technology, people with satellite won't have to worry about upgrading their TVs. And if I remember correctly, there will be converters for those without satellite.

What do you mean video commentary?

Analog broadcasting will be done away with in 2009. That means, anyone with NTSC televisions, regardless of the signal you receive, are SOL. HD over satellite will still be inferior to digital cable, namely because of the broadcast medium, and the selection. As of right now, via DirecTV, there are 4 HD channels. I'm sure it will improve, but digital is always going to win out.

The running video commentary called "IME", short for "In Movie Experience", is a PIP window exclusive to HD-DVD that features a running video commentary. Scene specific, and blow by blow, as if they filmed the director/actor as they made the commentary, and it runs will the movie is playing.

Originally posted by BackFire
Really, I think you're both right. ED is right in that HD technology won't surpass standard DVD anytime in the forseeable future, and that right now it is such a small niche who have or care about them, that if comparing the formats to DVD, they are and probably will be a failure.

However, when looking at the big picture, and taking into consideration that HDTV's are becomming more and more affordable and necessary, eventually HDDVD's will become the norm.

But, both Bluray and HD-DVD have an inherent disadvantage of having a direct competition with eachother. The fact that there are two formats severely hurts the HD entertainment industry, seeing as movies are being split among the formats. Plus, it looks as both will be around for a while, at least as long as PS3 and 360 are the main home video consoles.

One thing is for sure, it will be an interesting battle, it's just many people, myself include are worried that they'd pick the losing format, and as a result, simply aren't buying either, and have no plan on buying either as long as there are two options. As Steven Colbert said on his show "You know which format will lose the war? Whichever one you buy".

HD-DVD has already bowled over standard DVD tenfold, again, not that you can compare them in terms of marketability, because as you guys say, they're for people who "care", whereas I say they're geared towards certain people to begin with. Mercedes Benz doesn't churn out cars for everyone, and not everyone buys them. That doesn't make them a failure compared to other cars. It's a perk for people who can afford and appreciate what it has to offer. It's not a failure, the numbers already speak for themselves.

The format war is on paper, anyway, and HT enthusiasts know it to be true. Sony's dropped the ball countless times, where Toshiba's been pummelign the competition. This so called "studio support" that Sony has seems to be dwindling after Disney cancelled two MAJOR releases in "Cars" and "POTC" on BR, more than likely suggesting they'll either go with HD-DVD or both, just at a later time.

Personally, like I said, I've got nothing to lose. Neither does anyone else that invests $500 measely bucks into a DVD player. You get the best possible versions of your favorite movies, and the only player on the market capable of full picture resolution. If that format died today, I don't think any of hte early adopters would shed a tear.

Originally posted by Evil Dead

Yes, HD-DVD has a huge technical advantage over DVD as it offers much better quality. The public still does not care. We don't need HD......there isn't a demand for it. It is a tech junkie niche, just as laser disc was. Other than quality, to 90% of the country, it's just a dvd with better quality that we don't care about......we're fine with our regular dvds. The picture is good....it's what we're accustomed to......and there's still plenty of room for bonus features.

you know your HD-DVD......HD-TV.....Surround sound set-up you've got in your living room? You are in the VAST minority. Most of us don't care. We sit on our couch and put a movie in and watch it. That simple. You don't seem to realize this.

Yes, we will upgrade......not because we have this great desire, because we'll have to. A person is hard pressed to walk into Best Buy and find a tv that isn't HD or HD compatible. We have no choice, we buy a new tv and it just so happens it's HD.......even though we just want to buy a tv. HD doesn't figure into the equation. Televison will be broadcast in HD......again, there isn't a huge calling for it.......it's just something they're doing to appeal to everybody, giving the tech junkies what they want and the other 90% HD even if they don't want it......it's not like we're going to complain about the better quality.

This in no way affects what format somebody chooses to buy. We don't choose HD-TVs.....the manufacturers do. We don't choose HD programming.......the networks/cable companies do. We do actually have a choice when it comes to which disc we throw in our shopping cart......and to most of us, one is just as good as the other because we don't care about the better quality........just as those millions buying VHS didn't care about laser-discs far superior quality. The only way HD-DVD will ever trump dvd is if regular dvd stops being produced.......which I don't believe will ever happen as I don't believe HD-DVDs market share will ever even come close to 50% so no studio is going to stop producing films on the dvd format, losing all those sales for any given title. As stated earlier, HD-DVD will have it's techie niche until a new format comes along and erases both HD-DVD and DVD at the same time as it will have the same quality as HD-DVD (for the techies) aswell as practical upgrades for the common man, like being smaller and more durable.

As for Blue-Ray......it is the way for the future of gaming. The PS4 will have them standard in all models.......the PS3 will have an add-on for the lower end PS3 models that come factory direct without them. The sole reason is their storage capacity. It's the same reason DVDs were used for PS2 and Xbox as opposed to CDs. You can fit more data on the disc. Saying Blue Ray won't be used for gaming is akin to saying, "sony will never use DVDs in the PS2.....they'll stick with cds". It's the exact same reason they changed formats before. More starage capacity = more data per disc. More data per disc = larger games and/or better graphics.

It will however go nowhere with the film industry as it's a moot format with dvd and hd-dvd already out there. It offers no advantage over either.......actually less over hd-dvd.

I can say this until I am blue in the face. HD is NOT for the public. Technology isn't developed ONLY when there's a demand for it! If that were the case, we'd still all be peddling bicycles because it gets you from Point A to Point B, and that's all that matters. All the "we we we" talk, you're speaking for the general public for whom this medium isn't even intended. I know I'm in the minority, never claimed otherwise, but if the "minority" didn't fuel the market, then there would never be advancements, nor the need for them. So, when other people eventually latch on, they've got early adopters to thank. That's why so many technological advancements get cheaper spin-offs, i.e. DVD in general. Like iLo brand DVD players for $25, Westinghouse LCD HDTV's for $700. I never..ever..said that standard DVD's were going to be extinct. They're inferior, yeah, but that market will never go away.

Blu-ray will only be included in the $600 PS3's, IIRC. They're producing an HDD (hard drive) for the lower end models, like the premium 360. 360 will have an HD-DVD add on, making it about $50 less than the premium PS3 when it's all said and done. The PS4 won't even have a disc drive, so I've read, so the BR processor will be self-contained, which means that it's going to be all digital distribution, suggesting the end of the physical drive format and discs as we know it in both gaming and multi-media. However, that's atleast another decade away.

Blu-ray discs hold 25 gigs right now, and even at that compression rate, their movies offer no extras and horrible picture quality. How's that for a promising future in gaming, much less entertainment period? They've tested 50 gig discs, and have yet to produce positive results. Sony has a shitload of work to do, because right now, after having to cancel 1/4th of the slated PS3 games, the cell issues, the blue diode shortages, the premature BD launch, the horrible launch titles, the cancellation of both BD movies, PS3 games, the exploding laptop batteries....nobodies going to want to spend $1,000/$600 on their product.

^ Great post Cinema...hats off to you my good man.

On a related note:

We maybe looking at a price tag of $200 for an HD DVD Drive for your 360.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=18958

HD DVD Drive under $200?
Paul Loughrey 16:39 15/08/2006

Fresh rumours of a price point for the Xbox 360 peripheral emerge.

Renewed speculation over the price point for Microsoft's Xbox 360 external HD DVD has been sparked by Internet reports claiming a figure of US$200, just months ahead of the device's planned release.

According to DigiTimes, the device will be launched in time for the Christmas shopping period at a retail price of US$200, bringing the total cost of a premium Xbox 360 and HD DVD drive in line with Sony's US$599 PS3.

Microsoft has declined to confirm the precise launch date or pricing for the drive to date, stating only that the external device would be among the least expensive of the HD DVD drives to reach market, when the drive was demonstrated recently.

If the reports are accurate, it would suggest a UK price of approximately GBP100-150, although Microsoft officials were unavailable for comment at the time of writing, leaving official confirmation still pending.

In a way this is a good option. Unlike the PS3 you don't get an option of Blu-ray....you get it and pay $599.99

Originally posted by Wolfie
As of now, HD-DVD is only available for select titles, the titles they deem are worth the extra quality. I believe it'll stay that way. We have seen no TV shows on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray and is there a marketplace to put A Night at the Roxbury on HD-DVD? I doubt it.

"The Sopranos" Season 6 will be debuting, day and date, on HD-DVD from HBO, making it the 1st TV show on the format. They haven't been as picky as to the movies they've selected, either. "Rumour Has It", "The Lake House", "Caddyshack", "Blazing Saddles" and a few other titles are all on HD-DVD. It's not all slam-bang action flicks and Sci-Fi adventures, ya know.

Correction to above posts, both versions of the PS3 will ship with a bluray drive, unless somethings drastically changed since their original price announcement that I'm not aware of.

For the UK there won't be a blu-ray drive for the basic. Only in the US and Japan and other countries.

Really? Where did you hear that?

My mistake...the link in which I read that info has been updated recently. It will be available for the basic in all countries.

Originally posted by BackFire
Correction to above posts, both versions of the PS3 will ship with a bluray drive, unless somethings drastically changed since their original price announcement that I'm not aware of.

I should clarify. They'll both have Blu-ray drives, but the standard PS3 will not have an HDMI port. HDMI is pretty much essential if you plan on watching movies on your PS3. Otherwise, you're stuck with component cables and a picture that's about as good as an upconverted SD-DVD picture for movies and games, when they're mastered in 1080p, but displaying at 720p.

Oh, yeah that's true.

A very illuminating and interesting article on Blu-ray and PS3. Which connects cost for the average consumer and prices. Must read:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/15/will_blu-ray_sink_the_ps3/

Here is a review for a Samsung Blu-ray player:

http://www.digitmag.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=6040

Gadget review: Samsung's Blu-ray player
Tuesday 22 Aug 2006 - 10:34

HD DVD movie players are no longer your only high-def DVD living-room option: Samsung has shipped its BD-P1000 in the US for $1,000 (around £530), the first living-room player that uses rival format Blu-ray, and Sony Pictures and Lions Gate have released high-def Blu-ray movies to complement it.

Which type is better? We found little difference in image quality, but you'll get a more elegant player with the Samsung Blu-ray device. However, it costs twice as much as one of Toshiba's HD DVD players.

High-def views

We put the Samsung player through its paces and compared it with two HD DVD models from Toshiba, the $499 HD-A1 and the $799 HD-XA1.

We can't directly compare movies played in the two HD formats because, as yet, none have come out in both Blu-ray and HD DVD. But both formats use the same video codecs (MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC, and VC1), and the disc formats should have no effect on how they play movies. In informal tests, each approach showed itself capable of producing stunning images, with far greater detail and depth than standard-definition versions of the same movies offer. The players differed very little in SD playback quality, but the Toshiba models delivered a slightly crisper image.

A word of warning: Though high-def yields far better image quality than standard-def, HD movies aren't perfect. In the Blu-ray films I've watched thus far, some scenes exhibited more noise than I expected from HD; on the other hand, some titles, like Ultraviolet, were sharp and eye-catching throughout. My experience with HD DVD was similarly mixed, with more artifacts cropping up in certain movie scenes than I had anticipated.

Such visual hiccups probably won't go away. A slew of variables influence how any HD movie looks, including the condition of the original film, the codec used to encode the video, the quality of the encoding process, the bit rate of the encoding, and the player's decoder chip set. Also relevant are the intentions of the director and cinematographer. Some films are purposely shot soft, others dark and grainy, and others ultrasharp and vibrant. If you're concerned about these issues, read user reviews of specific HD titles before buying.

Stylish finishes

Even after you remove the Blu-ray versus HD DVD factor from the equation, these players differ significantly in usability and performance.

The tapered Samsung unit has a comfortable remote control; an easy-to-read LCD display; and a ten-in-two media card reader for viewing photos or listening to MP3s. In contrast, both Toshiba models are a bit bulky; the LCD display recalls a dot-matrix printer; and there's no media reader. The Samsung is quieter, too, though if you have Pirates of the Caribbean blasting over your five-channel surround-sound system, you won't hear any of these players whirring.

The Samsung was generally faster than either Toshiba model at navigating discs (the Toshibas were tested without the maker's June firmware update), and its remote responded quickly. It even resumes playback where you left off, whether you press stop or power it down--a nice touch. But sometimes the Sony Blu-ray discs were a bit sluggish at accessing chapters, prompting a pesky Windows-like hourglass to appear.

The Toshiba models may be a bit more future-proof than the Samsung. Both Toshibas have two USB ports, plus an ethernet jack for access to advanced interactive features when titles offer it and for downloading firmware updates. Samsung's player lacks both USB and ethernet.

Wait to buy

The high-def DVD format war is far from over, and a slew of new hardware is due in the fall and winter.

Living-room recorders, however, won't arrive until next year. And both LG Electronics and Samsung have discussed producing multi-format players; Ricoh recently demonstrated optical technology that would make such players possible. If you can wait to see HD movies at home, hold off purchasing until you have more choices.

Melissa J Perenson

I read that article a couple of weeks ago. It's funny, because it got torn to shreds at the AVS Forum, because it's so incredibly inaccurate, that not even Blu-ray owners are defending it. It looked to have been a very amateur review.