Freedon Nadd runs the gauntlet

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
I know it's off topic but why do you think Yoda's so powerful?

Because he, you know, is? He's powerful enough to contend wtih Exar Kun, Ragnos (probably), ROTS Sidious, Vader, and so on. He's described in the ROTS novelization as exactly this:

"It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi.
It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.
In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.
Finally, he saw the truth.
This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known . . ."

Of course, though, that's only pertaining to up to that point, which leaves room for the likes of Luke Skywalker to claim the title of "strongest foe the darkness has ever known".

Given the displays of power we've seen Yoda do (and no, I'm not talking about the bullshit we saw in the CW cartoons), he's clearly one of the more powerful characters in the entire history of Star Wars, definitely in the Top 10.

He doesn't exactly seem powerful to me. What are these "displays of power" that put him on said Sith's level? I've seem to have to missed them.

This is Nai's cue to come in and write us a book on Yoda, he knows the most about the muppet.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
He doesn't exactly seem powerful to me.

Maybe because you've only watched the movies, and yet to have picked up a PT era book?

What are these "displays of power" that put him on said Sith's level? I've seem to have to missed them.

Missed them, have you? Fear not, Star Wars connoisseur, Nai Fohl, saves me the trouble:

Originally posted by Borbarad

Also nice how you try to play down Yoda's lightsaber abilities. First: As far as the script tells us he disarmed Sidious although we don't see it happening. Second: Did you just forget the fact that Yoda was superior to Mace Windu (as Windu stated himself several times) who - ups - was a lightsaber prodigy on his own and managed to develop his own style in the age of 13 - something that was later called the "most deadly lightsaber style". Hmm. And then of course Yoda managed to be superior to Dooku who trained the "ultimate form of lightsaber to lightsaber confrontation" to such an extent that he was able to defeat Jedi Council Members without using the force meaning he took down people that used the force with his duelling skills only.

So if a lightsaber prodigy who had 40 years to practice his own style wasn't able to overcome Yoda - what makes you think that another lightsaber prodigy who had far less training and experience can do it ? And you didn't still answer my question how Kun would even hit him with a lightsaber given the fact that Yoda could dodge the attacks of three Jedi (including Vaapad master Depa Billaba) effortless.

Aside of this: If we can use earlier versions of the script to develop a picture of Lucas' own vision than I have to say that Yoda was by far the best saber duellist in the PT due to the fact that he destroyed Dooku in the AotC duel (he disarmed Dooku and then jumped on his shoulders to drive his sword into Dooku's head - talk about ownage).

And force powers ? Well...maybe you should actually read some EU material instead of basing you entire opinion on some films. Here some nice little facts about Yoda:
- in 700 BBY Yoda did lead the campaign against the Dark Jedi on Bpfassh, he tracked on of them to Dagobah, defeated him and "stored" the Dark Side energy into the tree we later see in ESB
- in 400 BBY he basically fought the Witches of Dathomir into a stalemate after they did bring down the Chu'unthor to the planet
- in 171 BBY he travelled to Ord Cestus and saved the X'Ting race from extinction on his own
- in 33 BBY he led the Council in the Ynchorri uprising - funny enough the scene were he blocks a blaster bolt, lifts Windu out of the line and slams the Ynchorri who was shooting into the next wall - all at once.

Clone Wars feats:
- lifted up that heavy metal thingy to save Obi-Wan and Anakin
- took down a Hailfire battle droid on his own - without using his weapon
- on Ilum he fought the droids that did attack the temple finally taking them down by causing an avalanche that took down an entire mountain top
- he then lifted the remains of the entire temple up to rescue Luminara and Bariss who needed their combined powers not to get crushed
- destroyed Asajj Ventress ship
- battled and forced Dooku to retreat twice
- deflection of blaster bolts with his bare hands
- deflection of Force Lightning with his bare hands
- deflection of multiple blaster shots coming from different directions at once (ROTS scene - talk about fastness)
- Battle Meditation to a degree that made far inferior forces win battles just because he appeared on the battle field (as seen on Kashyyyk)
- according to the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook Yoda was able to remove the Dark Side from nexus points (places, planets, equipment and even persons). I wonder what Kun would do if the Dark Side energy is taken from his amulets...
- able to feel the death or strong emotions of single Jedi Knights basically across the Galaxy (as seen in AotC when he felt that Anakin killed the sandpeople on Tatooine)
- massive uses of force TK and force push

Aside of this we have Dooku's opinion from Dark Rendevouz that a Dark Side Yoda would destroy Sidious in the matter of seconds. Then we have Windu's thoughts in Shatterpoint stating that Yoda would have been easily able to lift up a massive vehicle and stop an avalange both at once. And this two persons most likely knew Yoda's abilities better than anybody else.

Ok.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You're comparing that to 'releasing' stored force energy in an obelisk that holds spirits?

Oh my. Did he shatter the obelisk ? Did he just "tip" the spirits and they did the work ? Given the fact that this were spirits too wouldn't they be just as powerless as Nadd himself is - possibly even more due to the fact that they were dead longer ? Did they even hold any power ?

Last I checked, Sylvar was on the same rank as Kun. This has nothing to do with Kun's ability. He was little more than a padwan, if he was even a knight at that point.

I was talking about sheer physical strength and Kun simply pushed Sylvar, a Cathar Jedi able to kill Massassi with bare hands and shatter Exar's helmet just before with her claw, down with one hand. So Kun did have some nice amount of physical strength and Nadd had to overcome that to pull the lightsaber out of Kun's hands. This is not even talking that Kun very likely had the knowledge (force TK is basic knowledge according to Shatterpoint) to defend himself against such an attack. Powerless Nadd ?

Well, according to the text, that appears to be exactly what happened. We don't know if they talked first and he got enraged and ignited his saber, whereupon she left herself open because there is NEVER mention of a duel.

Use a little bit of common sense, please. Nadd was enraged so it was pretty obvious that he would simply strike his master down.
"Hey b*tch...I'd kill you if I don't get my Jedi Knight level !"
"Yeah, right. I'd just stand here leaving myself open to you, my student. Let's see if you can really strike me down with all of your anger."
"Cool." *swish* *cut* "Haha ! pwn3d !"
"Damn it."

Yes, the same people who thought Nadd was a god...it states Nadd was unable to destroy them.

See below...

Vader won most of the battles he was actually in charge in-he didn't lead the assault at Yavin to my recollection...the Rebellion was LOSING by the time they attacked Endor. They intended to destroy the DS and kill Palpatine and hopefully end the war.

Lmao.
The defence of the first Death Star was clearly Vader's job and he failed.
Hoth...Vader failed because most Rebels managed to escape.
Bespin...Vader failed because Luke managed to escape.

And the Rebellion was losing ? Excuse me. They were able to simply avoid battles for an infinite amount of time. They wanted to destroy the Death Star because it was a threat for the entire Galaxy as they had seen when the first one destroyed Alderaan.

Didn't it state Nadd gathered up what he could and left to Onderon anyways? I'm rereading some things now. And given the evidence we have, it seems likely Nadd tried to defeat the Beast Riders.

He fled from Ossus, crashed on Ashas Ree, discovered Adas holocron, then went to Yavin 4 met and killed Sadow and after this he went to Korriban to gather some artifacts and after this he went to Onderon. And Nadd tried to defeat the Beast Riders ? Is that why he kept exiling people from Iziz thereby filling the lines of the Beast Riders up again and again ? Way to defeat some enemy force - by give them reinforcements every now and then.

Ommin tried to attack Ulic, I remember that clearly...and Warb was probably an actual Ancient Sith possessing a human according to the TOTJ companion.

Ommin still managed to floor the rest of the Jedi effortless with some Sith Magic attack. And Warb Null was a human possessed by some ghost - and even if that was some Sith spirit we know that they suck in this state compared to their original form.

Where'd this take place? Likely not on Coruscant, so a planet full of Jedi is HARDLY clarified.

Lmao. Do you homework. It's clearly stated that this happened on Ossus and at this time that was the planet which did fit "planet full of Jedi" the best.

Repelled the Beast Riders? No, to quote: "They formed a scattered guerilla war that even Freedon Nadd's powers could not crush."
And when did it say he kept exiling people? Logically I think that practice would stop when he realized he was just fueling the fires. So, don't toss an assumption in there yourself.

Wow. Now Nadd is powerless because the Beast Riders avoided direct confrontation when he ruled Iziz (guerilla warfare).

Did I not just admit this? Yes, Nadd was strong. And do we even know how and when he killed Sadow? It could've been a vicious assault against an elderly and weakened Naga Sadow, it could've been a poisoning, or a fully charged charged duel on top of Yavin.

Elderly and weakened Sadow ? The guy was in suspended animation meaning he was in the same shape that he had during the Great Hyperspace War. Aside of that Sadow had an army of mutated Massassi to protect him which were shown to take down Jedi with their bare hands. So does it matter how Nadd killed him ? Either they engaged in a duell and Nadd won or he had to fight through an army of Massassi before / after assassinating Sadow.

So, in effect, we've no idea what he did, because this 'rule a planet, set yourself up as dictator' has been done before by quite a few Dark Jedi who are likely far weaker than Nadd

How many of those few Dark Jedi did have Adas holocron ? How many of them did kill a former Dark Lord of the Sith ? How many of them had some nice military force (like the Beast Riders) launching some guerilla war against them ? How many of them managed to influence "their" planet and the faith of the entire Galaxy 400 years after their own death ? None ?

Did I say anything about those spirits? He just released the energy, and considering the narraration says that's what he did...

When does physical strength mean anything when the force is concerned? This's recalling this is a younger non-Sith Kun not expecting Nadd to yank the saber away...was Kun even using it when Nadd grabbed it? I'll have to reread that scene.

So some dialogue was exchanged...Matta's a moron one way or the other, this was obvious...there's nothing that indicates a duel took place. It says she refused to promote him and he lashed out. He goes to the Jedi Masters, they refuse him, so he goes to seek Matta out, where she tells him he can't be a Jedi and that some things he must find in himself. He screams at her, she doesn't tell him what he's lacking and he attacks, whereupon she leaves herself open. He kills her, sees what he's done and flees.

What? Tarkin was in complete control of the death Star. And that's two personal losses for Vader...the base on Hoth was totally wiped out and the imperials gained a voice on Cloud City for several years. And that's two battles out of many others Vader was involved in. And yes, the Rebellion was losing the war. Their numbers were severely depleted and some systems had defected back to the Empire.

Okay, stop this BS about Nadd continuously exiling people, because there's nothing backing it up. In fact, it just says wuite a time later after he kept exiling people they came back in force, so noone knew what was going on until this guerilla war happened. If you have a source of Nadd exiling criminals AFTER the guerilla war started, this point might hold some weight. In fact, it states the policy totally backfired on him.

And Sith spirits clearly have some ability given that they possess human form...Kun certainly didn't suck in his spirit form as he showed Gantoris and Corran Horn. And Ommin blasted Nomi and Ulic. Ulic charged right through it.

On Ossus? Once again, you'd have to tell me WHERE this confrontation took place on Ossus and what happened...Nadd was so horrified, he immediately fled. Seems sound there were no other Jedi around.

Nadd has one place of power on Onderon and even if the Beast Riders' strategy is 'hit and run', Nadd and his forces should be able to deal with it.

The only Massassi who took down a Jedi that we saw was kilgrath, AKA The Night Beast, AKA alchemically altered by Exar personally. Moreover, can you prove Nadd didn't poison Sadow or that the Massassi were even around? Likely Nadd lashed out at him impulsively when Sadow refused to teach him further.

The faith of an entire planet? Last I checked, Onderon was stuck in a civil war against the Naddists for four hundred years. Point made on the issue, though there are some attempts to beef up Nadd quite a bit.

like this
bandon
dooku
rots vader
sidious
exile n revan
njo luke... luke is uber. godly owns all

i say he gets owned by exile and revan

but on ur order i say he's owned by njo luke..

coz luke is the greatest force user ever

Originally posted by Infinity
like this
bandon
dooku
rots vader
sidious
exile n revan
njo luke... luke is uber. godly owns all

i say he gets owned by exile and revan

DE Sidious > Revan. DE Sidious > Exile. DE Sidious > Revan and the Exile.

Originally posted by Escape81
DE Sidious > Revan. DE Sidious > Exile. DE Sidious > Revan and the Exile.

By that logic:
Yoda > Mace. Yoda > Dooku. Yoda > Dooku and Mace...
Not quite so.

Originally posted by Sith'ari
By that logic:
Yoda > Mace. Yoda > Dooku. Yoda > Dooku and Mace...
Not quite so.

Actually I think that is accurate.

Originally posted by Sith'ari
By that logic:
Yoda > Mace. Yoda > Dooku. Yoda > Dooku and Mace...
Not quite so.

I don't think he's saying because Sidious is greater than Revan and because Sidious is more powerful than the Exile, that Sidious is more powerful than both of them combined. He's just simply saying that Sidious is more powerful than Revan, more powerful than the Exile, and he's also more powerful than both Revan and Exile combined, which is true.

DE Sidious that is.. Not ROTS

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
DE Sidious that is.. Not ROTS

Originally posted by Escape81
DE Sidious > Revan. DE Sidious > Exile. DE Sidious > Revan and the Exile.

Owned.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
DE Sidious that is.. Not ROTS

Dude... what the hell?

I just designated Dark Empire Sidious with a DE. That should be the indicator. It also says DE Sidious on this thread.

All joking aside, what the hell has been your problem recently with misinterpreting my statements?

lol

Originally posted by Escape81
Dude... what the hell?

I just designated Dark Empire Sidious with a [B]DE. That should be the indicator. It also says DE Sidious on this thread.

All joking aside, what the hell has been your problem recently with misinterpreting my statements? [/B]

I think it would start with not reading them.. Or skimming through them.