Freedon Nadd runs the gauntlet

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, because DE contradicts nothing. The Sith themselves say that the flesh he wears cannot be saved. Palpatine was there for one of two reasons:
Heal the clone, thinking or hoping they could.
Use the oracle stone to show him Anakin.

Having a magic stone that calls images is apparently a virtue, eh?

And sorry, the quote isn't ambiguous. IT says all known techniques, all previously unknown or forgotten and invents new ones at his leisure. And later on it says he mastered all the powers of the Sith and Jedi and completely mastered the aspects of the Force.

Sorry, it's canon, you're not.

Again, you miss the point as usual. Palpatine went there because he needed their knowledge and guidance, which means he didn't know everything or didn't know more than them. They obviously offered him something he couldn't figure out, therefore the quote is ambiguous. So your canon quote is ambiguous and contradictory.

What technique was he there to know? he wanted to know if they could heal him, he was desperate.

And once again: They had an oracle stone...Palpatine couldn't use the force for fear of killing himself, his physician said as much.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
What technique was he there to know? he wanted to know if they could heal him, he was desperate.

And once again: They had an oracle stone...Palpatine couldn't use the force for fear of killing himself, his physician said as much.

Is that why he attacked Jem with the force shortly afterwards? He didn't know something.

Jem? Jem was long dead.
The physician yelled at him, saying "Stop, you're killing yourself!"

at the very end, he attacked someone with his force lightning so he obviously could use the force.

Of course he could. I never said he couldn't. But every usage meant he risked his life

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He 'released the energies there' with little effort, and that's quopting the comic. Considering he's apparently been to Korriban before and that he's a force sensitive, this isn't difficult, since he just 'released energies' which, when the thing exploded caused a cave in. Nor did he heal Exar, Exar accepting the dark side healed himself.

The point is that he still could produce / channel enough energy to cause an avalanche when he was "powerless".

And yanking a saber back is a crazy feat?

Pulling the saber out of the hands of a ridiculous powerful force user while you are "powerless" is a crazy feat given the fact that we've seen precisely nobody else able to disarm his opponents that way.

He shoved Vodo once, Vodo was completely uninjured.

Again. Nadd in his "powerless" shape managed floor a 600 year old Jedi Master using the force.

He and Matta were hardly dueling. He assaulted her and she left herself open. Was she an idiot for this? Maybe. However, Nadd wasn't 'contending' with her and she left herself open. In other words, she let him kill her.

Oh. They were hardly dueling ? Given the case that it's said that they duelled and that there is no description of the fight I'd like to see where you getting this idea from. Why didn't she try to disarm Nadd given that he was obviously enraged ?

He ruled Onderon for fifty years, I know. Meaning sometime in that interim, the Beast Lords were formed and waged their war and Nadd was unable to beat them. If he had decades to accomplish that, then, well

Yes, of course. The Beast Lords did just have the entire planet to hide on (Iziz excepted). That's like saying Sidious must be weak because he didn't manage to wipe out the Rebellion.

Oh, and last I checked, he got Adas's holocron BEFORE he met Sadow and Adas's holocron can easily ignore requests from people it deems unworthy.

Yes. Because Adas's holocron would deem somebody unworthy that just killed one Dark Lord of the Sith.

And 'left teachings behind?' Gee, if Arca was READY for Ommin, how well do you think that would've turned out? Arca chased off Nadd twice. And considering Sadow's death is an unknown considering he refused to teach Nadd the true Sith secrets which got him killed...It couldn't possibly be due to Ommin's actual talent and luck of catching Arca off guard?

Yeah. Everybody is caught off guard. One of the most powerful Jedi Masters walks into a city that he knows to be dominated by the Dark Side and Nadd's descendants. He also knows that Ommin is a powerful Sith Magician. But somehow he's not prepared to fight anybody here. Did Ommin also catch Nomi Sunrider and her Company "off guard" who were coming to fight them when he floored them all with a single attack (except Ulic) ?

Oh, and maybe if Kevin J. anderon could make a single good character and write semi-competently, there wouldn't need be bashing of the atrocities he calls characters. notice I'm not bashing Bane. Or Ruin, or the Underlord, or Rivan, or Kaox Krul, or even Kaan. Not even Lumiya, or Adas or Marka. I hardly have to downplay most of them, the stuff they're in does it well enough themselves

Funny. So you're only bashing characters that might come close to Sidious in terms of power. Yes...makes sense. And obviously Anderson is able to write because - damn - he, in contrary to you, does that for money. The point that you simply dislike his characters is not an issue here. Makes as much sense as saying "Uhhh...the NJO series is dumb - and because of that NJO Luke isn't powerful...uhhh."

Same way a parapalegic can throw a match on a trail of gunpowder, hardly a great example of raw power.

Yes, yanking an inanimate object back is hardly akin to actual power. And last I checked, Kun hadn't come into his power yet.

If Vodo was hurt in the least, that'd be quite impressive for Nadd.

Shall we quote? It said he assaulted Matta and she, seeing an opportunity for training, left herself open, whereupon he failed the test and killed her.

Unlike the Beast Lords, Sidious hardly gave the rebellion much thought whatsoever and left things to his admirals. They amused him and nothing more. And they also had a galaxy as opposed to a planet and considering there were quite a few battles between Nadd's forces and the beast lords...it states he failed to destroy them.

You mean someone who killed the guy who got the Sith exterminated, along with the fact he killed him because he wouldn't teach him true Sith secrets? We don't know how he killed Naga, remember.

Last I checked, Ommin's sudden surge of power completely threw Arca off guard, especially as he was yelling at Nadd when Ommin lept to life...until then, they thought Ommin was just a frail sack of bones.

Hardly. Don't bring my personal dislike of people into this. And is it coincidence Anderson's books are some of the most despised in the entire SW community? Want to bring up Admiral Daala? I could give a damn why he writes it. I could think of dozens of terrible authors, from Laurell Hamilton, to RA Salvatore, to Christopher Paolini.
KJA's up there with Vonda McIntyre and Barbara Hamilton for the worst of the SW universe. I don't see Tim Zahn having a supposedly galaxy changing war relegated to a few low scale terroprist attacks that the DLOTS is hardly involved. I don't see Matt Stover putting in the Ancient Sith's massive war lasting two issues when we don't even meet them until the second with characters blatantly pathetic and 1 d as Ludo Kress with such 'likable' characters as the Daragons.

Yeah, I tend to dislike a lot of KJA's characters and, big deal. Keep it out of the debate. I dislike a lot of other SW characters too, but noone's claimed Kueller and Brakiss would floor Yoda, NJO Luke and Exar Kun at once or that Hethrir played ping pong with stars.

Once again, DS, you're wrong.

Palpatine went to Korriban because the spirits present were the only entities he knew of who may have been able to answer his question, in the possibility that they may have known something that he didn't.

He went there, and they taunted him. Then, he told them, basically, that he was the Emperor of the galaxy, and that he demanded their help. Then they said that "he gave himself completely to the Dark Side long ago". So, all they told him was what he already knew.

a. His body was beyond repair.

b. He needed to find another host.

And all they did was provide him with the name of someone powerful enough to house his spirit. Viola! Anakin. Which he already knew, given that he felt the baby in the womb when Leia attempted to rescue Luke in Dark Empire.

As for his Force usage, the clones were inferior than his original body, and only gave him the strength and physical prowess of a young man - but then, they aged rapidly and could not withstand his Dark Side power.

By the time of Empire's End, his physicians and Dark Side adepts pleaded with him not to use his Force powers, because it would only accelerate his death. Amazing, how, on his death bed, he conquered all of Luke's Jedi, and nearly killed them all.

But, it doesn't change the fact that his body was still fading and he was on his death bed.

...that and Carnor Jax paid off Palpatine's doctor to sabotage his clone and the others,so the DS power wasn't the only thing Palpatine was fighting against to keep his body from aging.

Originally posted by Escape81
Once again, DS, you're wrong.

Palpatine went to Korriban because the spirits present were the only entities he knew of who may have been able to answer his question, in the possibility that they may have known something that he didn't.

He went there, and they taunted him. Then, he told them, basically, that he was the Emperor of the galaxy, and that he demanded their help. Then they said that "he gave himself completely to the Dark Side long ago". So, all they told him was what he already knew.

a. His body was beyond repair.

b. He needed to find another host.

And all they did was provide him with the name of someone powerful enough to house his spirit. Viola! Anakin. Which he already knew, given that he felt the baby in the womb when Leia attempted to rescue Luke in Dark Empire.

As for his Force usage, the clones were inferior than his original body, and only gave him the strength and physical prowess of a young man - but then, they aged rapidly and could not withstand his Dark Side power.

By the time of Empire's End, his physicians and Dark Side adepts pleaded with him not to use his Force powers, because it would only accelerate his death. Amazing, how, on his death bed, he conquered all of Luke's Jedi, and nearly killed them all.

But, it doesn't change the fact that his body was still fading and he was on his death bed.

OH really? Because he still continued to use the force even after they pleaded with him not to? He goes to Korriban for one thing and that's guidance. He thought there was something the ancients could do, and they did using the crystal ball(through the force). So obviously he either:
A. Couldn't do it himself
B. Conveniently stopped using the force at this point
C. How the hell did this get into the freedon nadd thread?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
OH really? Because he still continued to use the force even after they pleaded with him not to? He goes to Korriban for one thing and that's guidance. He thought there was something the ancients could do, and they did using the crystal ball(through the force). So obviously he either:
A. Couldn't do it himself
B. Conveniently stopped using the force at this point
C. How the hell did this get into the freedon nadd thread?

Have you hit a dip in your IQ? As I said, perhaps you ought to take a nap or something and come back when you're on your game.

a. They told him what he already knew. He needed to transfer his spirit to another, and that his clones were beyond repair. They didn't tell him a damn thing, other than who he needed to transfer his spirit to. Which he already knew, as he felt the boy in the womb when Leia was his prisoner.

b. He used the Force so that he would die, idiot. When he went to Onderon, he was: 1) faced with opposition 2) he had to shed his clone body to transfer his spirit to Anakin. So, he solved one and two by using the Force to kill anyone who got in his way, and it sent him further along the path to death.

But he didn't actively use the Force until after Korriban, when he knew that he had absolutely no other choice.

Jesus, you're an angry child. It's quite humorous actually.. And Onderon? What the hell are you even babbling about now?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Same way a parapalegic can throw a match on a trail of gunpowder, hardly a great example of raw power.

Given that you know jack shit about how much power was actually needed why not shut up ? We just know the effect of his action. That's like saying "Oh...Yoda brought down an entire mountain top in the CW cartoons...maybe he just used enough energy to move some small stone 3.5 milimetres to the side to cause the avalanche".

Yes, yanking an inanimate object back is hardly akin to actual power. And last I checked, Kun hadn't come into his power yet.

Last time I checked, Kun did already defeat Vodo before he met Nadd. And pulling an object out of the hands of some powerful force user who can counter such actions does require some power. Otherwise we would see no lightsaber duels in the movies because every Jedi would disarm his opponent instantly - or vice versa.

If Vodo was hurt in the least, that'd be quite impressive for Nadd.

Wow. Given that you always sited the fact that Sidious could force lightning Yoda across the room and Yoda then did force push Sidious across the room as a testament for this power the only thing I can say is "double-standarts much ?".

Shall we quote? It said he assaulted Matta and she, seeing an opportunity for training, left herself open, whereupon he failed the test and killed her.

You simply put it as if Nadd came running up to Matta with his lightsaber and Matta just pulled the Obi-Wan immediatly without anything happening that can be considered a fight. And this was most likely not the case.

Unlike the Beast Lords, Sidious hardly gave the rebellion much thought whatsoever and left things to his admirals. They amused him and nothing more. And they also had a galaxy as opposed to a planet and considering there were quite a few battles between Nadd's forces and the beast lords...it states he failed to destroy them.

Proof that Nadd wanted to destroy the Beast Riders. Or did he just fight them back when they attacked Iziz ? Where they maybe some "amusement" for Nadd ? And Sidious had some Galaxy spanning war machinery under his command. And considering that there were quite a few battles between the Empire and the Rebellion...and we know that Sidious failed to destroy them multiple times....
Again: Double-standarts much ?

You mean someone who killed the guy who got the Sith exterminated, along with the fact he killed him because he wouldn't teach him true Sith secrets? We don't know how he killed Naga, remember.

Oh my. What do you consider to be "true Sith secrets" ? Obviously Nadd knew Sith magic because otherwise he could have left knowledge about it to his descendants. And he obviously knew some Sith alchemy given that he told Kun that they can create a new body for him using Sith Alchemy. So what "true Sith secrets" are we talking about. Something that means jack shit in a battle (offensive force powers ? Fighting abilities) ? I don't think so.

And even if Nadd just assassinated Sadow somehow. That was how Sidious got rid of his master too, remember ? Again: Double-standarts much ?

Last I checked, Ommin's sudden surge of power completely threw Arca off guard, especially as he was yelling at Nadd when Ommin lept to life...until then, they thought Ommin was just a frail sack of bones.

Again ignoring that Ommin also managed to floor Nomi Sunrider and her friends effortless when they were clearly up to confrontation with him and knew about his power ? Ignorance is strength ?

Hardly. Don't bring my personal dislike of people into this.

You bring your personal dislike of certain authors / characters into this by refusing to accept simple logic, keep trying to downplay certain actions of said characters and use double-standarts where ever it's possible.

Amen.. Ok so Lightsnake we've talked about this so let me reiterate what was said about Nadd as a testament to his power as a spirit:

Floored Vodo
Healed Kun
Caused an avalanche
got the lightsaber away from Kun
Also find it very impressive how he reached out to his students on the other side of the galaxy as a dying spirit.

Given that all it was was a 'simple matter to release the enrgies?' sounds like it required SUCH great power. The explosion from the obelisk caused the avalance.

And Vodo beat Kun, so it's one for one. Last I checked, it was a practice match, too. Kun was still a padawan and hadn't even opened a manual of anything resembling the Sith and was a mere adept with the dark side thus far.

Most likely not the case? Nadd attacked her, she left herself open, she died. There is never a fight to speak of mentioned whatsoever.

Amanoa said her ancestors had tried to destroy the beast riders for years, to my recollection. They'd only been engaged in civil war for centuries and were the major thorn in the side to Nadd's rule. Considering it said he was unable to destroy them, sounds like he tried. Oh, and name one of those battles Sidious was personally involved in, considering his profile in the NGTC said he was practically completely uninterested in the war and content to let his subordinates handle things while he increased his power and trained his Dark Jedi.

Again: We know exactly what Sidious achieved later in life. And yeah, he knew some Sith alchemy apparently, so did the random darksider in the X-wing series. Whatever Sadow refused to teach him was apparently important enough to kill him over.

I also recall Ommin slicing through both Warb Null and later Ommin like they were nothing.

Oh, and I suppose you and your side are bias free? Shall we pretend your only compatriots were 100 percent unbiased with the 'Bandon might take Yoda' stuff they threw out? Yeah, welcome to opposing sides, of course things'll be downplayed. The fact remains: Nadd murdered both masters when they refused to promote or teach him real secrets. We know he failed to destroy a rebellion on his world and said rebellion was a blight on his descendants for four hundred years.

Like I said: I hardly need to bash KJA's stuff...the material practically writes itself.

Let's narrow someting down: I'm not denying Freedon was powerful. Top tier Sith with Kun, Marka, Palpatine? That's another story

You mean he:
Released energy, causing an explosion, which triggered an avalanche
Floored Vodo, leaving no lasting damage
Yanked a saber away- Is Kyle Katarn a force god, too?
Healed Kun-except he didn't, as Kun's acceptance of the Dark Side did so.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You mean he:
Released energy, causing an explosion, which triggered an avalanche
Floored Vodo, leaving no lasting damage
Yanked a saber away- Is Kyle Katarn a force god, too?
Healed Kun-except he didn't, as Kun's acceptance of the Dark Side did so.

Triggered an avalanche as a spirit, the end.

Floored Vodo, as a spirit, the end

Yanked a saber away, as a ****ing spirit, was Kyle dead? No. The end

Healed Kun, as was shown in the scans, the end.

Please stop arguing with facts lightsnake, just concede this argument already.

OH, right...so Tarkin destroyed a planet. The end.
Was Vodo hurt? No.
Kyle yanked away a saber too, big deal
Dark side healed Kun, said as much. The end.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
OH, right...so Tarkin destroyed a planet. The end.
Was Vodo hurt? No.
Kyle yanked away a saber too, big deal
Dark side healed Kun, said as much. The end.

ARe you this dense? What the hell does Tarkin have anything to do with this.

Who cares if Vodo was hurt or not, we are demonstrating his power as a spirit, and he obviously CAN affect the living.

KYLE WAS ALIVE jesus christ.

Scans>You

Your logic is at an all time low lightsnake. I suggest you listen to myself, Nai, and Sama, and concede this one.