I believe that if there is a God, or a Deity, or many, (etc.), that "Evil" must at once be independent of It/them, and yet at the same time congruent with It/them.
That is to say, if there is a God, then while It may not be able to fully comprehend "Evil," it must in origin have been created by It.
Or maybe I'm rambling?....
Originally posted by Belegûr
I believe that if there is a God, or a Deity, or many, (etc.), that "Evil" must at once be independent of It/them, and yet at the same time congruent with It/them.That is to say, if there is a God, then while It may not be able to fully comprehend "Evil," it must in origin have been created by It.
Or maybe I'm rambling?....
That is the problem with that way of thinking. Good and evil are an aspect of all things. God is good and evil.
Originally posted by Belegûr
I believe that if there is a God, or a Deity, or many, (etc.), that "Evil" must at once be independent of It/them, and yet at the same time congruent with It/them.That is to say, if there is a God, then while It may not be able to fully comprehend "Evil," it must in origin have been created by It.
Or maybe I'm rambling?....
Then you are equaliting Evil with Nuetrality.
Evil is a very real and very negative thing....it cannot exist SIMPLY due to God's absense.
A lot of debators will argue that evil is the absense of God, and that sounds like bullshit to me. The absense of God would equal nothingness...not evil.
Evil is NOT a nuetrality, or a simple negation of good...evil is its own thing, it consists of much diversity in the forms of cruelty, hatred, and sadism. Evil is a very real thing, and is due to MORE than just an absense of a diety...
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Then you are equaliting Evil with Nuetrality.Evil is a very real and very negative thing....it cannot exist SIMPLY due to God's absense.
A lot of debators will argue that evil is the absense of God, and that sounds like bullshit to me. The absense of God would equal nothingness...not evil.
Evil is NOT a nuetrality, or a simple negation of good...evil is its own thing, it consists of much diversity in the forms of cruelty, hatred, and sadism. Evil is a very real thing, and is due to MORE than just an absense of a diety...
But you are making an assumption there as well. You assume that there is such a thing as neutrality. Is there a state between light and dark? there is light and less light, but in the absence of light there is complete darkness. There is no neutral state. God and Evil could be similar. You can have some varying level of influence from God, or none. Personally I think that very few people have zero influence, eve atheists.
Originally posted by docb77
But you are making an assumption there as well. You assume that there is such a thing as neutrality.
Neutrality exists very much so. ✅
Originally posted by docb77
Is there a state between light and dark?
Yes. Midtone.
Between Black and White ? Grey !
Between Night and Day? Noon !
Originally posted by docb77
there is light and less light, but in the absence of light there is complete darkness.
So I take it you're saying there is good and less good, but in the absense of good there is only evil ?
How blind of you. Whose to say that light is good and dark is evil ? We NEED BOTH light and dark on this world. We NEED night and day, we need black and white.
The absense of good is NOT evil....the absense of good is simply the absense of good. Evil is on the opposite end of that spectrum.
You imply that EVERY choice consists of good and evil. If I choose whether or not to drink tea or coffee, is there any good and evil involved in my choice ?
Originally posted by docb77
There is no neutral state.
There are plentitudes of neutral states. Indifference, Ignorance, accidental actions, mistakes and so on.
Originally posted by docb77
God and Evil could be similar. You can have some varying level of influence from God, or none. Personally I think that very few people have zero influence, eve atheists.
If it is indeed Fact that God is pure Love, then I can only assume that most people, whether they like it or not, have him within them.
However, the way the Bible represents God, and the way many Christians represent God, I do not find him to consist of pure love. ❌
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Neutrality exists very much so. ✅Yes. [b]Midtone.
Between Black and White ? Grey !
Between Night and Day? Noon !
So I take it you're saying there is good and less good, but in the absense of good there is only evil ?
How blind of you. Whose to say that light is good and dark is evil ? We NEED BOTH light and dark on this world. We NEED night and day, we need black and white.
The absense of good is NOT evil....the absense of good is simply the absense of good. Evil is on the opposite end of that spectrum.
You imply that EVERY choice consists of good and evil. If I choose whether or not to drink tea or coffee, is there any good and evil involved in my choice ?
There are plentitudes of neutral states. Indifference, Ignorance, accidental actions, mistakes and so on.
If it is indeed Fact that God is pure Love, then I can only assume that most people, whether they like it or not, have him within them.
However, the way the Bible represents God, and the way many Christians represent God, I do not find him to consist of pure love. ❌ [/B]
just to point out - noon is still day.
There is no neutral point between light and darkness. Light is an electromagnetic wave/particle that is either there or not.
white and black - if we're talking about art or pigments white is the absence of color, black the mixture of all of them. That makes gray just a lesser amount of pigment. there is either color or not.
You point out that whether or not you choose to drink coffee is neither good nor evil. Correct, but that's not because there is a neutral. It is because it isn't on the same scale. It doesn't belong to the Good/evil scale, perhaps the important/trivial scale.
Now, I never said that there is no neutral in anything. Neutrality with regards to certain things do exist, but there are also things that either are or aren't. Light and Dark are one example. I just suggested that Good and evil might be another.
Originally posted by docb77
just to point out - noon is still day.There is no neutral point between light and darkness. Light is an electromagnetic wave/particle that is either there or not.
white and black - if we're talking about art or pigments white is the absence of color, black the mixture of all of them. That makes gray just a lesser amount of pigment. there is either color or not.
You point out that whether or not you choose to drink coffee is neither good nor evil. Correct, but that's not because there is a neutral. It is because it isn't on the same scale. It doesn't belong to the Good/evil scale, perhaps the important/trivial scale.
Now, I never said that there is no neutral in anything. Neutrality with regards to certain things do exist, but there are also things that either are or aren't. Light and Dark are one example. I just suggested that Good and evil might be another.
If I kill a man to save my mother's life, is that good, evil, or nuetral ?
If I am a woman, and have an Abortion due to the fact that the Foetus is threatening my life (its suck in my fallopian tubes), is my act to abort good, evil, or neutral ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If I kill a man to save my mother's life, is that good, evil, or nuetral ?If I am a woman, and have an Abortion due to the fact that the Foetus is threatening my life (its suck in my fallopian tubes), is my act to abort good, evil, or neutral ?
Kill in defense of your mother - Good
Aborting an Ectopic pregnancy - Good
No neutrality there.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
What If I killed my own father to save my mother ?Despite thte pregancy risking my life, I am still killing an innocent life.
I don't thnk a "good" exists here, just neutral.
In what situation would killing your father save your mother? Your father attacking?
Defending your mother still good. The death of the attacker, regardless of who it is, is regretable, but does not change the inherent value of the action of defense.
In the case of an ectopic pregnancy, there is no way the child could be carried to term. It would be a case of end the pregnancy or both people die. Still Good.
Saving lives = good
Now, if there were a way to save both lives in either situation it would be better, or more good, but saving lives is always good.
Originally posted by docb77
In what situation would killing your father save your mother? Your father attacking?Defending your mother still good. The death of the attacker, regardless of who it is, is regretable, but does not change the inherent value of the action of defense.
In the case of an ectopic pregnancy, there is no way the child could be carried to term. It would be a case of end the pregnancy or both people die. Still Good.
Saving lives = good
Now, if there were a way to save both lives in either situation it would be better, or more good, but saving lives is always good.
I defended my mother from my father. My father attacks my mother, because my mother tried to kill him first. I didn't see her try to do that, i just walk in I see my father choking my mother, and I stab him to death, unware of the fact that my mother attacked him first.
Was my act good or evil ?
There are two children hanging over a cliff....one of them is my son, and the other is my best freind's son. They are both just about to lose thier grip on the edge, and they are ten feet apart from each other.
I run to save my child first, but as I grab my son's hand, the other kid falls and gets crushed at the bottom of the mountain.
Was my act good or evil ?
Actually Docb77, a more difficult one:
I am walking by myself on the street from a baseball game. It's late at night, and I have my bat with me.
I see strange people lookin at me. I don't trust any of them, and this neighborhood is one of high crime. I start to get scared.
Someone GRABS my shoulder from behind in a really dark area, and i get terrified. I take my bat and start swinging, bashing that person's head open.
I see that person dead on the floor. I put my face forward to get a better look at who it was...
It was my own grandmother dead on the ground. I thought she was a mugger or some kind of criminal trying to attack me from behind....
I just killed her by accident.
Was my action good or evil ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I defended my mother from my father. My father attacks my mother, because my mother tried to kill him first. I didn't see her try to do that, i just walk in I see my father choking my mother, and I stab him to death, unware of the fact that my mother attacked him first.Was my act good or evil ?
There are two children hanging over a cliff....one of them is my son, and the other is my best freind's son. They are both just about to lose thier grip on the edge, and they are ten feet apart from each other.
I run to save my child first, but as I grab my son's hand, the other kid falls and gets crushed at the bottom of the mountain.
Was my act good or evil ?
Is good defined by your intentions or by the outcome?
I still say that both actions are good, definitely not the best possible outcome, but good nevertheless.
Originally posted by docb77
Is good defined by your intentions or by the outcome?I still say that both actions are good, definitely not the best possible outcome, but good nevertheless.
So It was GOOD that I stabbed my father, even though he didn't deserve it.
It was also GOOD that I didn't save my best freind's child, even when I COULD HAVE....
Your arguments make NO SENSE...i thnk your starting to lose your stance....
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So It was GOOD that I stabbed my father, even though he didn't deserve it.It was also GOOD that I didn't save my best freind's child, even when I COULD HAVE....
Your arguments make NO SENSE...i thnk your starting to lose your stance....
Lol, context plays a role in most things.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So It was GOOD that I stabbed my father, even though he didn't deserve it.It was also GOOD that I didn't save my best freind's child, even when I COULD HAVE....
Your arguments make NO SENSE...i thnk your starting to lose your stance....
No, you weren't listening. It was good that you loved your mother enough to defend her.
It was good that you saved your own child.
My arguments make sense enough if you try to see what's behind them.
Regret is right, context means everything.
Originally posted by docb77
No, you weren't listening. It was good that you loved your mother enough to defend her.It was good that you saved your own child.
My arguments make sense enough if you try to see what's behind them.
Regret is right, context means everything.
So It wasn't evil that I stabbed my father who loves me ?
It wasn't evil that I ignored my freind's son when he was in trouble ?
The good intention cancels out the evil action?
Answer my OTHER scenario.....
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Actually Docb77, a more difficult one:I am walking by myself on the street from a baseball game. It's late at night, and I have my bat with me.
I see strange people lookin at me. I don't trust any of them, and this neighborhood is one of high crime. I start to get scared.
Someone GRABS my shoulder from behind in a really dark area, and i get terrified. I take my bat and start swinging, bashing that person's head open.
I see that person dead on the floor. I put my face forward to get a better look at who it was...
It was my own grandmother dead on the ground. I thought she was a mugger or some kind of criminal trying to attack me from behind....
I just killed her by accident.
Was my action good or evil ?
How about this ? Doc..Regret...Good evil or neutral ?