Semptember the 11th

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Fahrenheit 9/11 is a great tape to see.exposes it all.shows and documents how evil the Bushs are.Both Bush and Clinton are equally to blame for this,they're both in on it.they have a long standing friendship that dates back to when he was clinton was governor of arkansas and bush was vice president under Reagan.

Presidents and politicians have friends too! So what?! There is no evidence available to back your claim; if it were true, in what why did they profit? The major oil contracts went to China about a year ago. You should also watch the movie, "Michael Moore Hates America" or "Manufacturing Dissent."

Michael Moore Hates America
YouTube video
Manufacturing Dissent
YouTube video

Originally posted by Mr Parker
when you say they werent staged,are you saying it wasnt an inside job? because your way off base here if you are.those are world known facts.also the ones that have an agenda are the government to brainwash the people like they have with this jaden poster and the major newspapers? thats all they're doing is printing conspiracy propaganda on 9/11. everybody that knows something about the government and the media knows that the government serves big businesses and big corporations and that the media is a tool for the government,that they never investigate real news.

Don't you understand that the majority of the media--which is liberal--despises President Bush; they would be more than happy to print news covering an inside job. At minimum, such charges--if true--would leave President Bush impeached facing criminal charges. And we haven't even began talking about the international media! I'm not doubting that governments--even our own--have put a spin on things to save face in the past. In the case for 9/11, you are overlooking the obvious for the inobvious; but if you feel that strongly, why don't you pack your bags and move to Canada. Who knows when he will strike again? President Bush and his terror network could do without you.

I'm Canadian.

the ones that have an agenda are the government to brainwash the people like they have with this jaden poster and the major newspapers?

you're dogmatic...i'll give you that...but the fact the remains...it doesn't matter how many times you say it....it still wont be true

and i'm not the one claiming architects who have been dead came back to life after 9/11 and claimed the towers should have stood

so are you going to answer that point about this "friend" of yours who heard it with his own ears?...or is this another example of you just making stuff up

nice research their pal...way to go...give yourself a pat on the back...you just nulifed every opinion you ever had on this subject with your complete stupidity

i was going to let this point lie but i wont cause you deserve to read it

and wrong again as usual when your talking here about the smaller Boeing 757 or what ever the number was back then,it was only slightly smaller than the bigger 767 or whatever the number was that hit it and the smaller one was capable of traveling at speeds faster than the larger 767 which is why they designed it the way they did to withstand the highest speeds.your whole laughable theory of double the mass,accidental collisions,quadriple the force theory falls apart in a video made in 93 where one of the main designers of the towers is on that video from a taped inverview in 93 from the first bombing there,saying they were designed to take MULTIPLE hits from airliners and there would be some damage and a lot of people killed, but the towers would remain standing.

the designer in question being Leslie Robertson...his quote from Dr Griffin being "they were designed to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707.”

the actual interview is here

We had designed the project for the impact of the largest airplane of its time, the Boeing 707. The 767 that actually hit the WTC was quite another matter again. First of all it was a bit heavier than the 707, not very much heavier, but a bit heavier. But mostly it was flying a lot faster. And the energy that it put into the building is proportional to its square of the velocity, as you double the velocity, four times the energy. Triple the velocity, eight times the energy and so forth. And then of course with the 707 to the best of my knowledge the fuel load was not considered in the design, and indeed I don't know how it could have been considered. But, and with the 767 the fuel load was enormous compared to that of the 707, it was a fully, fully fuelled airplane compared to the 707 which was a landing aircraft. Uh, just absolutely no comparison between the two.

seems even the experts you are citing are proving you wrong doesn't it?

the biggest irony being that my "laughable theory" is exactly what the desinger you cite stated regarding mass and velocity

Originally posted by ushomefree
Presidents and politicians have friends too! So what?! There is no evidence available to back your claim; if it were true, in what why did they profit? The major oil contracts went to China about a year ago. You should also watch the movie, "Michael Moore Hates America" or "Manufacturing Dissent."

in what way did they profit? cheney and bush were board members of brown and root and haliburton,defense contracts that were awarded millions of dollars somehere in that ballpark I believe for their work over seas,the military awarded them millions of dollars of worth for their contracts and cheney and Bush being board members profited immensely from it.with clinton,he just knew it was going to happen,theres nothing out there that has said he profited from it.I only brought his name into the mix since YOU mentioned it.clinton is almost as bad as Bush,he gave the FBI the okay to burn down the waco compoud and lied about it on the news saying the davidians caused the fire and the FBI never fired on them when the photographs prove otherwise.

Michael Moore Hates America
YouTube video
Manufacturing Dissent
YouTube video

Don't you understand that the majority of the media--which is liberal--despises President Bush; they would be more than happy to print news covering an inside job. At minimum, such charges--if true--would leave President Bush impeached facing criminal charges. And we haven't even began talking about the international media! I'm not doubting that governments--even our own--have put a spin on things to save face in the past. In the case for 9/11, you are overlooking the obvious for the inobvious; but if you feel that strongly, why don't you pack your bags and move to Canada. Who knows when he will strike again? President Bush and his terror network could do without you.

First,just so you know,I made a post above the videos about clinton for you to read,I could not get it separate from YOUR posts so its mixed right inthere with yours.Second part,Dude I ALREADY addressed this issue with jaden countless of times before,if your going to ignore it like he did,well then theres no sense in us continuing this conversation.and oh brother,here we go again from the apologists/coincidence theorists,the same old thing I have heard hundreds of times before which I will forever have to keep repeating.dude,it doesnt matter if I move to canada because there is a new world order system in place that started early on in the clinton administration and has been esculated since the bush administration where if your not one of the elete which none of us,you are considered an enemy of them and are going to be rounded up and put in a concentration camp,they've been building concentration camps all over the world since early on in the clinton administration.

its not going to do any good to move to another part of the country because its GLOBALLY planned.of course that terrorist george bush could do without me,he doesnt like people such as myself and the others come on here who can think for themselves and outside the box talking about this and not allowing the government to brainwash them with their lies and propaganda like jaden and others have. oh and thanks for not doing the jaden thing,posting bible length long posts that would take hours on end to read.some of us have lives and dont have that kind of time like he has to spend all day hours on end on the computer to read stuff.

Dude I ALREADY addressed this issue with jaden countless of times before,

if you wish to address me or any of the points i've raised...do so...but dont actively ignore my posts then continually make out as if you've addressed my posts to others

clearly you have no counter to anything i've posted otherwise you would've done so instead of repeating "i'm done with you"

infact lets examine some of your responses

some people just love talking to themselves I see.

and oh brother,here we go again from the apologists/coincidence theorists,the same old thing I have heard hundreds of times before

the apologists always remaining in denial.

its really a waste of my time bothering with you apologists/coincidence theorists,YOU especially

you remind of LORD xyz who lives in this fantasy world

this is a really good bit...within 3 sentences you say

I brought up an old post of mine and quoted myself on it

hope you had fun talking to yourself there.

brilliant hypocrisy

you've on several occasions accused me of not reading your posts then admitted to not reading mine

but we'll go back to the issue of the post you claimed i ignore...the only part of substance in it is this claim

hundereds of demolition experts around the country have insisted those towers falling were the results of demolitions

so name them...show their testimony to the claim...as i have with real experts

or of course your continual reference to "the willam rodriguez story" who controversially stated that he heard explosions in the basement before the plane hit...despite the fact he stated he was in sub basement level B1 when the plane hit...which if you also did your homework you would know is a windowless basement and thus rodriguez would have no idea when the plane hit the tower as he wasn't able to see it

the only other person who corroborates his story even to a small extent is Anthony Saltalamacchia who actually contradicts rodriguez by saying that the explosions were in the top of the building

how is it also that Felipe David and Kenneth Johanneman who were with Rodriguez at the time dont corroborate his story...and infact contradict his other story about Rodriguez single handedly rescuing them

second-thousands of new yorkers that were there at ground zero have died from asbestos a harmful chemical that they inhaled that day.Never in the history of mankind have people who survived a building collapse or a plane crash,died from asbestos,they got those harmful toxins in their body from the explosions of the bombs.

haha...brilliant...i personally know 4 people who died from asbestos poisoning from either their jobs working with asbestos as a building tool...or as building demolishers...and there are hundreds of court cases oustanding or ruled in favour of people who developed cancer from working with asbestos

dont believe me?

http://www.injuryplus.com/news/viewarticle.asp?ID=81

infact in the UK alone...3,000 people die every year from asbestos related cancers either from building or demolishing work

so stop spouting rubbish

what about the passport found in the rubble of the twin towers. the passport was meant to be one of the supposed hijackers.

but then the guy in the passport came forward and said it wasnt me..im alive.

lol. more proof of planting fake evidence at the scene.

Originally posted by Deano
what about the passport found in the rubble of the twin towers. the passport was meant to be one of the supposed hijackers.

but then the guy in the passport came forward and said it wasnt me..im alive.

lol. more proof of planting fake evidence at the scene.

now what's more likely...the big bad US government planted passport in the rubble (i'm presuming after the collapse in case it got destroyed) or that someone had a fake passport...which happens daily in every country in the world in smuggling, people trafficking and other organised crimes most likely hundreds of thousands of times????

especially given how massively and equally the rest of the evidence for a conspiracy has been destroyed

just hypothetical...it's not something i've looked into...yet

and i can only presume i'm on Mr Parker's ignore list now....that's certainly the way to prove your detractors wrong..stick your fingers in your ears and say "blah blah blah i cant hear you"...proverbially speaking

your beloved rense says this on the subject

One day after 9/11 the perfectly unscathed passport of Satam Al Suqami, one of the alleged 19 hijackers, was found several blocks from Ground Zero, even though its next to impossible such a flimsy item escaped the towering inferno unblemished.

now...i've actually seen footage of the mangled remains of one of the cabin crew with flight uniform still on the body...2 blocks from the WTC...

not to mention that MILLIONS of pieces of paper came out of the WTC after it...so how did these flimsy items remain intact?...well...who knows eh?...but they did....so a passport...i'm presuming...could also

not to mention the fact that most of the pieces of evidence such as ID cards that were found were of passengers which theorists such as some people here also claim were planted...now...if you're going to plant evidence in the belief that people would think that the fact that the evidence survived the event and claim it to be planted...then why would you plant it in the 1st place

i mean...you're alleging that these powerful conspirators are able to pull the wool over the worlds eye yet at the same time alledge they are stupid enough to make school boy errors

Originally posted by Deano
what about the passport found in the rubble of the twin towers. the passport was meant to be one of the supposed hijackers.

but then the guy in the passport came forward and said it wasnt me..im alive.

lol. more proof of planting fake evidence at the scene.

yep and we both know he'll come back with some insane ramblings on that as always. 🙄 not only does mr talk to himself ignore facts like that and that the bush family has been documented with a long history of being a crime family with autrocious crimes in the famly dating way back to at least the mid 40's with former CIA director george sr's father prescott bush also having CIA ties-the organization that carries out the same kind of autrocities the third reich did,thats been documented,A couple of Former CIA directors have retired and BOTH wrote a book about how they employ the same metheds nazis did and how they control the media,FACTS he conviently Ignores because he is afraid of of the truth.and yet he also ignores that the most evil corrupted president of all time,that his brother and cousin were head of security for the towers.thats why I find it so hyserical that with those evil men being the head of security,that he grasped at staws saying it would take 80,000 operatives to plant them.LOL.I was MUCH closer than he was when i said- try a couple hundred,its not even THAT,its actually LESS than a hundred to do it.they had months to do it and they had the Bush family head of security,FACTS he ignores.

But not only that,he also ignores facts that the BBC aired specials oversaes where overseas the facts arent anywhere near as suppressed as they are here in the states,where they aired the alleged names of the highjackers the government came up with,they showed their faces on tv and they were saying they were like shocked to find their names mentioned,its been proven that most of the alleged highjackers names are still alive,please tell me what new insane ramblings he comes up with for his desprate counter attack on this.someone who says it would take 80,000 people to plant explosives in the towers has no credibi;ity at all. 😆

as I said earlier,that is definetely a new one on me there.LOL.other coincidence theorists have said it would take a FEW thousands of people,but NOT 80,000. 😆 😆 I told this gy I know that researches this night and day much more even so than i do about him saying that,and he laughed his butt off just like i did. 😆 :

also,as I said before,the further proof that the mainstream CIA controlled press has no interest whatsoever in the truth,facts that he ignores as well is that anytime they come on a show to talk about a government conspiracy,as soon as they start presenting their evidence,tpeople like the CNN newscasters dont let them speak waht they have to say,they start yelling and screaming at them and only give them a few mintues of airtime.Bill O'Reily is the WORST most non objective person about it.

I have seen him have people on before and when they start to present their evidence,he screams at them,calls them delusional and cuts them off and goes to commercials.He is not the only one either.Like I said,other newscasters for major news media like CNN FOX NEWS,ect do the same thing.I mention O'Reilys name because I remember him since I have seen him do IT ALL THE TIME with my own eyes and ears. Please tell me Deano,what is one way mind Jadens response to that? let me guess,his answer is I was delusional when I watched those DVD'S and O'relu and those others never attacked those people that presented their views right? 🙄

the other thing is jaden since I know your reading this,stop showing what a hypocrite you are by telling people-"dont believe what you see on the net." when your using the NET to post INTERNET links to your fairy tale beliefs that David Ray Griffith has been debunked by anybody.Unless you have a VIDEO you can post where Griffith is on there to defend himself against these people sprouting of lies about him,you got no case,so enough with this crap with this nonsense that he has been debunked. until you have that video to post to prove it. 😛

and AGAIN,since you dont remember things at all,SHOW griffith Having a chance to defend himself against that person.

someone who says it would take 80,000 people to plant explosives in the towers has no credibi;ity at all. laughing

how many times is this one going to be brought up...it's my fault Mr Parker hasn't got even the most basic grasp of the English lanuage

80,000 was the number of employees working for the companies that occupied the premises in the building....this is a known fact

it would take either their active involvment...their complete ignorance of someone setting explosives in their own offices...or their consent to let someone plant the explosives in their offices

what part of that do you not understand????

But not only that,he also ignores facts that the BBC aired specials oversaes where overseas the facts arent anywhere near as suppressed as they are here in the states,

i ignore these facts do i...I LIVE IN BRITAIN...I'VE SEEN THE DOCUMENTARIES....

now...if you have the courage and the knowlege to stand up for your own opinions... be a man and take me of ignore and debate with me instead of being a whiney, bury-your-head-in-the-sand, trolling little *****

okay Deano,watch for a pm from me,tell me what insane ramblings - "afraid of the truth the government did it." Jaden sprouted off this time.I am dying to hear it.

I wish Ushomefree would come back,HIS posts I can sit through,at least their not bible length posts I would have to devote hours on end all day long to read through. 🙄 He thinks just because HE has all day long to spend hours on end on the computer all day long to read through posts,that everybody else does as well.some of us have jobs and other things going on in our lives after our jobs in the evening where we cant spend those kinds of hours on end on the computer ALL DAY long.at least Ushomefree is considerate of that fact.

well there you have it folks...Mr Parker has put me on ignore and is now asking Deano to relay information from my posts to him

another example of Mr Parker using 2nd had information and quotes...just like he did for his "designer said the buildings should have stood" arguement...which i used the exact quote from the documentary

then of course there was him saying his friend heard "with his own ears" that the chief architect of the WTC said it should have stood after 9/11...despite him being dead for 15 years

then of course there is his complete ignoral of multiple clear and easy to understand explanations of what we will now refer to as the "80,000"

then of course there is his utter disregard of Ryan Mackey's freely available counter to david griffin's book...despite the fact that Mr Parker claims to read many books on the subject...well you would think a 100 page document wouldn't be too much of an ask...then again he calls my posts "bible length"...meaning he doesn't actually want to read any evidence that makes his theories (not actually his...he just regurjitates someone elses) look silly

he hasn't had a single counter for any of the points i've brought up...so clearly it was just easier to put me on ignore and pretend i dont exist that way he can maintain this little fairy tale in his head

i'd say thats quite a good job considering he's the one who claims to spend lots of his time reading and researching this stuff...yet i manage to refute his claims with a couple of hours of research of my own

now if he actually had any confidence in his own opinions then he would face up to me and counter my points...but he cant...so he cuts and runs

at least Deano faces up to me and even Classic NES who i've had good debates with in the past

i also get accused of being a "coincidence theorist" and being a sheep and blindly following the official line...despite the fact that i cleared up my own stance on the matter while having a discussion with Classic NES

when i read something on the subject...a quote from someone for example...i do everything i can to locate where it was taken from and in what context...when a claim is made to a matter of science then i try to find something relevant in a scientific peer reviewed paper (im lucky in that i have free access to sciencedirect and scopus in order to do that)...where as its abundantly clear that all Mr Parker does is go to the likes of rense, prisonplanet and infowars and swallows every little tidbit down his hungry gullet without bother to check any of their opinions for himself

Originally posted by Mr Parker
okay Deano,watch for a pm from me,tell me what insane ramblings - "afraid of the truth the government did it." Jaden sprouted off this time.I am dying to hear it.

I wish Ushomefree would come back,HIS posts I can sit through,at least their not bible length posts I would have to devote hours on end all day long to read through. 🙄 He thinks just because HE has all day long to spend hours on end on the computer all day long to read through posts,that everybody else does as well.some of us have jobs and other things going on in our lives after our jobs in the evening where we cant spend those kinds of hours on end on the computer ALL DAY long.at least Ushomefree is considerate of that fact.

yes...i also have a job...as well as work for my pHD thesis...fancy that

but still...if you insist on putting me on ignore and then calling me insane...then you can consider yourself reported for trolling

i raped your theories....you gave up...and if Deano is half as respectable as i remember him to be...he'll tell you to grow a pair and debate with me

something else I want to mention that the truth seekers such as myself have never brought up before on this thread is that in the prior months before 9/11,there were unusual power outages going on in the towers which was extremely unusual coording to the workers there because never in all theri years that they had worked there,had they ever experienced anything like that before. and because of these extremely unusal power outages,they had evacuation drills going on in those prior months.great opportunity to use to plant explosives.

They were also saying that there were some floors that they were not allowed to go into,that only high level security people had access to,that the elevator would not go to those stair levels-it was Bushs security CIA ops in there disguised as workers obviously.When your the president of the united states and your BROTHER AND COUSIN are head of security,and the bush family has a long history of an evil crime empire,well thats the WORST kind of security possible to have.

These people are on videos where they mention all this where you can hear them say that with your own ears.you can view these videos at youtube if they havent been deleted yet,or still get DVDS through the truth movement.

but that is consistant with witness testimony of workers who were there that witnessed it saying they heard explosions going off in the basement sub level "below" BEFORE the tower was struck from above.after they heard the explosions going off in the basement,they then heard from above the sound of the aircraft striking and of course willie rodriguez who I always have to mention because he is the smoking gun you can find in a google search who shreads to pieces the official version,he saw and caried out a worker on fire from the elevater shaft coming from the basements.thats why the majority of the american people have seen through these lies and coverups by the government,he was the smoking gun they did not count on. and many other co workers and firefighters have verified his story.

the 9/11 coverup commission follows the same pattern of the kennedy assassination,where you have all these insane amounts of coincidences piling on top of each other,that they no longer become coincidences anymore.yet the coincidence theorists still blindly defend the version to this day because they are too afraid of the truth to admit they have been brainwashed with the lies and propaganda by the government and popular mechanics, which again all the people there have been proven to NOT be independent,that they have government contracts.

of course there are then people like jaden who are so afraid to admit he has been brainwashed to not even consider the fact that the others that dont have government contracts,were more than likely told from the beginning,to spread lies that no explosives were used because if they were lucky,all that happen to them is they would lose their jobs,and if that tactic doesnt work,that their familys lives were threatened from day one.

and even though many firefighters and police officers have gone on radio shows saying thats the case,that they have had their familys lives threatened,some dont care and had the courage to speak out,even despite things like that being talked about on the radio,the coincidence theorists such as jaden are always going to ignore these facts and come up with some INTERNET link full of lies that proves nothing. 🙄

so can SOMEONE tell me if the video I requested of someone debating with David Ray Griffith with him being allowed to speak up against this person and this person ACTUALLY disproving Griffith in front of him has been posted by Jaden yet? if not,that just further proves my point that Jaden as always has nothing and the government knows he is telling the truth so they have all these disinformation INTERNET links out there for people like jaden afraid of the truth to go hunt for and look up because they wont allow him to come on fox news and other mainstream shows to talk about his evidence like he has repeatedly asked for in these years because they know its the truth and cant counter him.so I will continue to wait for that video of Jadens to post and check back in a couple days to see if its here.otherwise,as always,it just shows he has been going by nothing but insane ramblings and disinformation posted on the NET.

something else I want to mention that the truth seekers such as myself have never brought up before on this thread is that in the prior months before 9/11,there were unusual power outages going on in the towers which was extremely unusual coording to the workers there because never in all theri years that they had worked there,had they ever experienced anything like that before. and because of these extremely unusal power outages,they had evacuation drills going on in those prior months.great opportunity to use to plant explosives.

occums razor principle applies...whats more likely...a power outage and an evacuation because of the power outage (as happens in many buildings across the world daily)...or a super conspiracy to plant explosives in an hour or so that the evacuation would last?

not to mention you said it would take "a couple of thousand people" to plant the explosives...no testimonies of this huge number of people still being in the building...no testimonies of large numbers of strange workmen or never before seen people working in large numbers

so...highly speculative with no proof whatsoever

They were also saying that there were some floors that they were not allowed to go into

yes...they're called technical services floors...they had no windows and can clearly be seen on any photograph of the WTC buildings

i like your repeated use of the word "blind" and "brainwashed" etc...the irony being that i actually go and check my facts through research...you merely claim to

no links provided by you...again...

you claim to spend alot of time reading literature on the subject but dont bother reading anything that shatters your own version...where as i happily read everything you post...research it...and refute it

seeing as you still have absolutely no answer to any of my points beyond simply saying "they're lies"....then i guess we can consider this debate over

so can SOMEONE tell me if the video I requested of someone debating with David Ray Griffith with him being allowed to speak up against this person and this person ACTUALLY disproving Griffith in front of him has been posted by Jaden yet?

posted a link to a rebuttal of his claims....you ignored it

clearly a TV man and not a literature man though seeing as you choose not to read it

but once again...seeing as you continue to post about me in a derogatory manner while having me on ignore...reported for trolling

http://www.oilempire.us/griffin.html

wow...look at this...even other truth activists ridicule griffin's claims and point out that some of his opinions he referenced neo-nazi holocause deniers....and printed it in a jewish magazine...clearly a credible source of information