Mace and Depa vs. Exar and Ulic

Why is Kun any faster, more agile, or stronger than Mace? Mace beat Sidious in lightsaber combat, the same Sidious that owned three Jedi Masters in the same amount of seconds. Hey wait, I already brought this up:

Originally posted by jollyjim311
I mean, Mace is the one who is responsible for Jango's death, outclassed Asajj, left Sora in a pile of debris, etc. Not to mention the whole Sidious thing.

As far as physical strength goes, he, using both the force and his physical strength manged to hold off Sidious' lightning. Also, with his shatterpoint ability, he doesn't need to expend a lot of physical strength for amazing results. I mean, Mace is the guy who can break a crystal with a light tap. While maybe not as impressive in lightsaber combat, it has the same principal.

And again, Kun defeated possibly the grandmaster in the order as a mere padawan, Kun then tooled the same grandmaster in mere seconds. He had no equals in lightsaber combat, and his technique and sabers were lost with him, so it is possible, even LIKELY that the PT Jedi are unfamiliar with this form, as Vodo was, which is why he most likely got tooled.

Mace defeated Sidious, and? By no means is Sidious even close to Kun in saber combat. Kun and Yoda are on the same level and Mace would never defeat Yoda. His shatterpoint ability is going to do what? We've seen Kun's strength, we've seen his speed. The guy was the best of the best in a more martial time.

Vodo wasn't the grandmaster, that BS has got to stop...no evidence there WAS a grandmaster.

And his 'techniques with the saber?' Why, then, are DBLs PLENTIFUL in a manner of decades? Great, he was unmatched in an order of Jedi weaker than the PT? And Kun would be familiar with Mace's form? Give it a rest. We've seen Kun's speed? Where? We've seen Mace's too...and more martial time? LOL! The PT Jedi faced five major conflicts in a matter of several years! There's no proof the TOTJ era was 'more martial', especially considering the vast peace they were under. And who says Yoda and Kun were on the same level? I and Nai said we don't see Yoda losing.
Where've we seen Kun's speed? We've seen Mace's and from what we've seen of his strength, it far surpasses Kun.

And Sidious is described as one of the best duelists to ever live, thanks
What's Kun going to do when Mace's shatterpoint ability finds the weaknesses of his style and ability and Vaapad ensures Kun can't get an advantsage?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Vodo wasn't the grandmaster, that BS has got to stop...no evidence there WAS a grandmaster.

And his 'techniques with the saber?' Why, then, are DBLs PLENTIFUL in a manner of decades? Great, he was unmatched in an order of Jedi weaker than the PT? And Kun would be familiar with Mace's form? Give it a rest. We've seen Kun's speed? Where? We've seen Mace's too...and more martial time? LOL! The PT Jedi faced five major conflicts in a matter of several years! There's no proof the TOTJ era was 'more martial', especially considering the vast peace they were under. And who says Yoda and Kun were on the same level? I and Nai said we don't see Yoda losing.
Where've we seen Kun's speed? We've seen Mace's and from what we've seen of his strength, it far surpasses Kun.

And Sidious is described as one of the best duelists to ever live, thanks
What's Kun going to do when Mace's shatterpoint ability finds the weaknesses of his style and ability and Vaapad ensures Kun can't get an advantsage?

Oh yes lightsnake, the clone wars and the squabble on Naboo was ANYTHING compared to the Sith War, and the Jedi civil war. Hence the more martial time=fact.

And nothing remotely suggests Mace's strength far surpasses Kun's. And you may want to read the Yoda vs. Kun thread because I am looking at what Nai is saying, and it has nothing to do with "I don't see Yoda Losing". Please stop making shit up.

And please, where was it said Sidious was one of the best ever? Show me? I can name you 5-10 people that were above him. And what make you think Mace is going to magically find a weakness in Kun's technique? As I recall, Kun's technique was a mixture of Makashi and something else, yet it was lost with him.

Please stop your fanboyism and start arguing logically.

As I told you before, DS. Palpatine hadn't actively trained with a lightsaber for thirteen years, and yet he was still able to kill three Master-level Jedi, fight Mace in a battle to the death that "could have lasted forever, if not for the Shatterpoint ability", and stalemate Yoda, speaks a lot for him.

Edit: Considering how the Clone Wars were a galaxy-spanning conflict, and all that jazz, with the Jedi, clones, and droids, yes, I'd have to say that the Clone Wars, Civil War, and the Yuuzhan Vong war were far more costing and more... significant, than anything in Kun's time.

The Yinchorri, Dathomiri, Stark Hyperspace War, Clone Wars, which was described as BY LUCAS one of the most dire conflicts the galaxy ever faced?

And what shows Kun's strength surpasses Mace's? Did Kun match up with Kar Vastor? Destroy super battle droids with his bare hands? No, he held an old squid up with one hand...where's Kun's strength and speed exceeded Mace?

And Insider for Sidious. Stated as he was able to kill three of the best saber duelists of the Order in seconds.
And 'as you recall?' Nothing shows Kun made his own style with Makashi or otherwise. he MAY have created his own weapon, but style? No proof, sorry!
And what makes me think Mace is gonna find a weakness? It's called 'Shatterpoint' and that's what the technique's ENTIRE FUNCTION IS.

Sorry lightsnake, he created his own saber, and his own style since the hilts on his saber were small enough to be used by 1 hand. And again, Mace is not on Kun's level, so Kun would take him out more times than not.

And again, Sidious might have been up there but he was nowhere near Kun's level, such as Yoda and possibly Mace.

No, actually, no proof he created his own style. And double bladed sabers were plentiful decades later.

You've yet to offer any proof. I take what Insider said about a guy who killed three of the best swordsmen the Jedi Order ever produced over your word.
Sorry! Mace's shatterpoint, strength, speed, skill and actually proven to be created by Mace's style? That's good enough!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Sorry lightsnake, he created his own saber, and his own style since the hilts on his saber were small enough to be used by 1 hand. And again, Mace is not on Kun's level, so Kun would take him out more times than not.

And again, Sidious might have been up there but he was nowhere near Kun's level, such as Yoda and possibly Mace.

No offense, but this logic makes zero sense.

It was described that Sidious's duel with Mace could have gone on forever if not for Mace's shatterpoint ability. That statement there - and the duel itself - indicates that the lightsaber skill gap between Mace and Sidious is not by much at all. Nor is it between Mace and Yoda or Yoda and Sidious.

How do you explain that?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, actually, no proof he created his own style. And double bladed sabers were plentiful decades later.

You've yet to offer any proof. I take what Insider said about a guy who killed three of the best swordsmen the Jedi Order ever produced over your word.
Sorry! Mace's shatterpoint, strength, speed, skill and actually proven to be created by Mace's style? That's good enough!

Wrong. Kun's double saber was unique and never replicated, unless you want to argue against facts. Sure double lightsabers were replicated years later, but it was two sabers combined into 1, which in size were usually taller than the person. Not to mention Kun for sure used a Makashi style with a double bladed lightsaber, mixed with another style. That would entail a unique style no? Obviously you don't use common sense.

Three of the best swordsmen the Jedi Order ever produced? Now lightsnake the fanboy starts to make shit up. Please lightsnake, your arguing abilities are lacking. Him killing 3 masters has no bearing on the fact that Kun is superior to him, Ulic is superior to him, Mace and Yoda, possibly DN Kyle, Revan, etc.. So your point as usual is moot.

And sorry, Mace's shatterpoint ability isn't going to give him the victory. With your stupid logic, Mace could defeat Yoda, and Luke, since he supposedly can find a weakness in anything! Kun's speed, agility, unique form, and powerful hits will take Mace out. Stop getting so angry, you lose.

Originally posted by Escape81
No offense, but this logic makes zero sense.

It was described that Sidious's duel with Mace could have gone on forever if not for Mace's shatterpoint ability. That statement there - and the duel itself - indicates that the lightsaber skill gap between Mace and Sidious is not by much at all. Nor is it between Mace and Yoda or Yoda and Sidious.

How do you explain that?

Explain what? That Sidious was below Mace? We an argue all day about Mace's shatterpoint ability to either diminish him or embellish Sidious' power. The fact remained that Mace was a better dueler than Sidious, period. Yoda was better than Mace, Yoda was better than Sidious, unless you want to use the A>B>C argument and state that Mace>Yoda or Mace=Yoda..

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Explain what? That Sidious was below Mace? We an argue all day about Mace's shatterpoint ability to either diminish him or embellish Sidious' power. The fact remained that Mace was a better dueler than Sidious, period. Yoda was better than Mace, Yoda was better than Sidious, unless you want to use the A>B>C argument and state that Mace>Yoda or Mace=Yoda..

You said that Sidious is no where near on Kun's level, and yet Yoda and Mace are.

I just explained to you that it was Mace's shatterpoint ability that gave him the victory against Sidious, and that - otherwise - we would never have known who could've won the fight, otherwise.

But, then Sidious is no where near Kun's level and yet Mace is?

That logic is poor. If you can't understand that, then you're hopeless.

Prove Kun's saber was never replicated. Prove what Kun's style was.

And, hey, moron? the ROTS novelization states they were three of the best swordsmen the Jedi order ever produced.

Oh, continuously stating 'Kun is superior' without proof is blatant stupidity and fanboyism as you've yet to respond to a single point or back any of yours up

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Prove Kun's saber was never replicated. Prove what Kun's style was.

And, hey, moron? the ROTS novelization states they were three of the best swordsmen the Jedi order ever produced.

Oh, continuously stating 'Kun is superior' without proof is blatant stupidity and fanboyism as you've yet to respond to a single point or back any of yours up

Asking me to prove a negative, what a moron. Again, considering Kun's hilt was short, he was able to maneuver with a double lightsaber singlehandidly.

Show me the quote before you make yourself look like a whiney queer.

Oh yes, as opposed to "Omg he has the shatterpoint ability, he can destroy droids, he MUST be able to take Kun!"

Originally posted by Escape81
You said that Sidious is no where near on Kun's level, and yet Yoda and Mace are.

I just explained to you that it was Mace's shatterpoint ability that gave him the victory against Sidious, and that - otherwise - we would never have known who could've won the fight, otherwise.

But, then Sidious is no where near Kun's level and yet Mace is?

That logic is poor. If you can't understand that, then you're hopeless.

ERr it was an exaggeration. You talk of this shatterpoint ability as if he could use it to defeat anybody. And yes, based on your OWN logic, because of Mace's shatterpoint ability he could be considered somewhere near Kun's level, while Sidious cannot. Yoda obviously is.

Prove it was unique. Now

It's in the ROTs novelization "Four of the best swordsmen the Jedi Order ever produced."

Shatterpoint ability plus everything else. Sorry, moron!

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Prove it was unique. Now

It's in the ROTs novelization "Four of the best swordsmen the Jedi Order ever produced."

Shatterpoint ability plus everything else. Sorry, moron!

A Makashi type style using a short hilted double lightsaber=unique.. Dumbass

"four of the best"? That would obviously excuse the likes of Kun, Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Obiwan, Ulic, and anybody else better than those four? Nice ambiguous quote jackass.

"Omg shatterpoint and EVERYTHING Else". Way to debate jackass.. Logic>fanboyism

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
ERr it was an exaggeration. You talk of this shatterpoint ability as if he could use it to defeat anybody. And yes, based on your OWN logic, because of Mace's shatterpoint ability he could be considered somewhere near Kun's level, while Sidious cannot. Yoda obviously is.

Yes, I know that it was an exaggeration. I hoped that you realized that it was, as well, considering that the gap between Mace, Sidious, and Yoda is, by no means, leagues.

a. You're talking about lightsaber combat. You were the one who said, in lightsaber combat, that Sidious is no where near Kun and yet Mace and Yoda are. I am pointing out how foolish that assessment is, considering how he was able to give them both hell in their fights.

b. My logic states that - in a battle without the Force - Mace would give Kun a hell of a time, given his own prodigious skill and the Shatterpoint ability. But if you take everything away, and leave just sabers, I believe that Kun would take Mace.

c. Once again (especially in saber combat), Yoda and Mace are very close in power. I would argue, in fact, that they are roughly dead even in lightsaber ability, but that Yoda's grasp of the Force is superior, by a few considerable degrees.

A. agreed
B. Agreed
C. Agreed.

Well that says it, excuse my lack of usual talented and perfect debating, its early.

A. Prove it was Makashi.

B. Four of the best the Order ever produced. Puts them on a nice plateau now. Where does Kun ever have that title?

C. Considering I already said the others.