Mace and Depa vs. Exar and Ulic

Originally posted by Lightsnake
A. Prove it was Makashi.

B. Four of the best the Order ever produced. Puts them on a nice plateau now. Where does Kun ever have that title?

C. Considering I already said the others.

A. It is stated somewhere, not to mention that again, he had the ONLY short hilted double saber ever invented, meaning he could use it with 1 hand, meaning it would have to have a special style not seen in lightsaber combat considering the rest of the double lightsabers are just 2 lightsabers put together, so there's your logical deduction.

B. Kun doesn't need that title, Kun was better than the entire Jedi Order of the martial era, and only rivaled by Yoda in terms of sheer saber combat.

C. Give it up.

A. Prove it. Prove Kun's weapon was totally unique. You can't.
B. Not a more martial era. Liar. Lucas describes the PT era as the prime of the Jedi. In reference to combat. You lose
C. Already said the others

Originally posted by Lightsnake
A. Prove it. Prove Kun's weapon was totally unique. You can't.
B. Not a more martial era. Liar. Lucas describes the PT era as the prime of the Jedi. In reference to combat. You lose
C. Already said the others

A. You're an idiot, arguing with facts. I won't be surprised if you get flamed for it. His weapon was TOTALLY unique, not to mention there at 50+ sources that state Kun invented his own saber/style and it was never duplicated. This is what happens when you have run out of an argument lightsnake, you start playing stupid, plus if you look at the scan you'll realize there has never been one like it. Quit making a fool out of yourself.

B. Prime of the Jedi in terms of "as a whole these Jedi were the best of all Jedi". Meaning it has nothing to do with 1 individual, much less a DLOTS, so not only do you lose but you sound like a moron spewing out irrelevant quotes.
C. Yes, you've proven once again that you lack any debating abilities.. Pwned..

A. Name one of these sources. Just one. There's never been a style or weapon like Nikkos Tyris's seen either, means nothing, sorry.
B. Meaning the Jedi of the PT as a whole were better than the TOTJ Jedi...meaning it looks like the so-called 'more martial era' (Which is bs anyways) just isn't as good
C. You've failed to offer a single counterexample.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
A. Name one of these sources. Just one. There's never been a style or weapon like Nikkos Tyris's seen either, means nothing, sorry.
B. Meaning the Jedi of the PT as a whole were better than the TOTJ Jedi...meaning it looks like the so-called 'more martial era' (Which is bs anyways) just isn't as good
C. You've failed to offer a single counterexample.

A. Ok first you play stupid by asking me to prove that Kun's was unique. Now you say "Oh just because it's unique it means nothing". Which is it lightsnake, get your bullshit straight.

B. What does the martial era have to do with the PT era as a whole being better? You're an idiot? Correct.

C. You haven't offered a single argument yet, besides your ignorant stupidity.

A, Name these sources, liar. I haven't seen anything saying his weapon OR style were unique.

B. No, it means the PT was better than the so-called more martial error, considering the TOTJ era wasn't more martial.

C. Examples of Mace's strength and speed, plus his ability which throws Kun's darkside abilities back at him, his shatterpoint ability, his OWN unique style, his ability in telekenetic saber combat, his astounding measure of the Force which allowed him to even use generally darkside techniques, his agility and skill which allowed him to destroy a small army of droids, a seismic tank, airborn fighters..

You have resorted to: "Mace can't beat Kun, Kun rules."

Without offering a single argument.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
A, Name these sources, liar. I haven't seen anything saying his weapon OR style were unique.

B. No, it means the PT was better than the so-called more martial error, considering the TOTJ era wasn't more martial.

C. Examples of Mace's strength and speed, plus his ability which throws Kun's darkside abilities back at him, his shatterpoint ability, his OWN unique style, his ability in telekenetic saber combat, his astounding measure of the Force which allowed him to even use generally darkside techniques, his agility and skill which allowed him to destroy a small army of droids, a seismic tank, airborn fighters..

You have resorted to: "Mace can't beat Kun, Kun rules."

Without offering a single argument.

A. "Do you like the modifications I have made to my lightsaber master". Open TOTJ, open NEC, open any source. YOu look more like a fool everytime you try to argue facts with ignorance.

B. No, it doesn't, it means the PT as a WHOLE was more powerful. It has nothing to do with being more martial, stop making stupid assumptions that make no sense.

C. His ability that throws the darkside back to him? Interesting. Again, Mace beat Sidious because of his shatterpoint ability, while Kun is better than Sidious, faster, more powerful, more agile, and has a form Mace hasn't seen before.

And it's a lot better than "Omz Mace has shatterpoint and can destroy droids he will beat one of the 3 greatest duelists ever".

A. Nothing about him inventing the saber or the style. Earliest known user is one thing, creator is another.

B. Logic then, considering the PT faced something described by Lucas as one of the most dire conflicts ever, the Yinchorri, the Stark Hyperspace War, several Dark Jedi uprisings, Volfe Karkko, the Mercosa, the Thryssian Sun Guard, the Bfasshi uprising and many others...the TOTJ era conflicts pale in comparison. Plus the PT was stronger as a whole, shooting this 'more martial' BS to hell as if it meant anything

C. Yeah, that's what Vaapad DOES. And where was Kun;s ability or speed shown? Oh, right, it wasn;t! Proof Kun has a different form? And Sidious is described as one of the best saber duelists who ever lived and you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with him by the time of the PT...no Kit, not Exar, not anyone else: Mace or Yoda.

And Mace has a form Exar has never seen that is far more effective: Throws Exar's darknes sback in his face PLUS the shatterpoint ability.

Now, you were saying? And that Sidious info comes from Insider and ROTS novelization, thanks

Originally posted by Lightsnake
A. Nothing about him inventing the saber or the style. Earliest known user is one thing, creator is another.

B. Logic then, considering the PT faced something described by Lucas as one of the most dire conflicts ever, the Yinchorri, the Stark Hyperspace War, several Dark Jedi uprisings, Volfe Karkko, the Mercosa, the Thryssian Sun Guard, the Bfasshi uprising and many others...the TOTJ era conflicts pale in comparison. Plus the PT was stronger as a whole, shooting this 'more martial' BS to hell as if it meant anything

C. Yeah, that's what Vaapad DOES. And where was Kun;s ability or speed shown? Oh, right, it wasn;t! Proof Kun has a different form? And Sidious is described as one of the best saber duelists who ever lived and you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with him by the time of the PT...no Kit, not Exar, not anyone else: Mace or Yoda.

And Mace has a form Exar has never seen that is far more effective: Throws Exar's darknes sback in his face PLUS the shatterpoint ability.

Now, you were saying? And that Sidious info comes from Insider and ROTS novelization, thanks

A. Lightsnake, arguing with facts is ridiculous, I suggest you find another argument, or just stop.

B. You're the one who said PT is stronger and more martial, while I said that the Jedi Civil War was the worst war in the galaxy up until The Vong arrived. This is FACT.

C. Oh yes, Kun was slow which is why he defeated his master as a padawan, tooled him again as a master, and stalemated another prodigy. Good one. And again, since your anti logic, Logic dictates that Kun had to use a different form and/or created his own considering the hilt on his lightsaber was short and he can wield it single handidly. And I like how you take the quote completely out of context to prove to yourself that you have an argument, but ignorance is your thing. But no lightsnake, it means "You had to be either Yoda or Mace", pertaining to that time and the jedi order, not overall, so try again next time. Your incorrect interpretations won't save you. And as for vaapad, you have no idea if it is more effective than Kun's form, so quit trying so hard.

A. It's not fact until it's written. Show me a source.

B. Really now? Because Lucas seems to cite the Clone wars as the most dire conflict in Shatterpoint's opening. This is fact how? Oh, right...it isn't. I think those with logic may list the fourth great schism-which the Sith themselves cite as the bloodiest conflict- which was a thousand year series of wars with the Sith that nearly saw the Jedi Order extinct.

C. Who said he was slow? You're putting words in my mouth. I want where he was faster than people like Yoda and Mace.

And Mace's form was the most dangerous form and the hardest to master, and considering there's no telling what form Kun used.

And Lucas: You have to be Mace or Yoda.

Not Kun. Not Ulic, not Vodo. Mace or Yoda. He also adds Anakin unburnt. And out of context? Do put it in context then.
Oh, and Kun uses two hands on the saber hilt at a coupla points and considering he only swings the thing three times...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
A. It's not fact until it's written. Show me a source.

B. Really now? Because Lucas seems to cite the Clone wars as the most dire conflict in Shatterpoint's opening. This is fact how? Oh, right...it isn't. I think those with logic may list the fourth great schism-which the Sith themselves cite as the bloodiest conflict- which was a thousand year series of wars with the Sith that nearly saw the Jedi Order extinct.

C. Who said he was slow? You're putting words in my mouth. I want where he was faster than people like Yoda and Mace.

And Mace's form was the most dangerous form and the hardest to master, and considering there's no telling what form Kun used.

And Lucas: You have to be Mace or Yoda.

Not Kun. Not Ulic, not Vodo. Mace or Yoda. He also adds Anakin unburnt. And out of context? Do put it in context then.
Oh, and Kun uses two hands on the saber hilt at a coupla points and considering he only swings the thing three times...

A. I am not going to argue facts with you, you are wrong, and accept it or continue droning on like a broken record.

B. I'm sorry lightsnake, but the Jedi Civil War was the most devastating war until the Vong came about. It brought about the near extinction of the Jedi as well, so your point is moot.

C. Oh yes, lightsnake defense mechanism. "Show me the specific quote where it says character X was faster than character Y". Kun was the greatest duelist up until Yoda, his unique style and saber give him an advantage not to mention his speed, power, and agility.

A. Provide the facts then. I've asked you before.

B. Prove it. Wait, you can't? Even Lucas called the CW one of the most dire conflicts and the Sith themselves consider the Thousand year War more devastating. No proof.

C. Prove he was the greatest duelist until Yoda. No proof he was stronger or faster than anyone else. No proof he used a unique style.

You're a liar.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
A. Provide the facts then. I've asked you before.

B. Prove it. Wait, you can't? Even Lucas called the CW one of the most dire conflicts and the Sith themselves consider the Thousand year War more devastating. No proof.

C. Prove he was the greatest duelist until Yoda. No proof he was stronger or faster than anyone else. No proof he used a unique style.

You're a liar.

A. I'm not going to provide facts for you when you can open TSW, or any of your so called sources and look it up.

B. Oh wait, Lucas called the CW one of the MOST, and the thousand year war was devastating in terms of Jedi and Sith. Play KOTOR, the Jedi War was the single most destructive war until the Vong Invasion.

C. Prove he was the greatest? LOL! You're hilarious lightsnake. Playing stupid as your last resort. Lets see Kun had no equal, Kun had a unique saber which would require a different form. I've given you proof lightsnake. Facts>Your Denial. Pwned.

A. Basically you're saying you have nothing. I've opened the books. Nothing says Lun created his own style. Nothing.

B. PRove it. The Thousand Years War saw the entire galaxy devastated and both orders crushed. The Jedi Civil War is cited as bloody and wasteful, but didn't damage the Republic overmuch. You're offering no proof but your opinion. And I could cite numerous ways the other wars were more damaging.

C. Prove it. You keep saying this crap but no sources and no proof. And Maul had a unique weapon, he used Juyo. Nikkos Tyris had a different form, he used a saber. So?
Once more: I want canon, LFL approved proof. Not your words

Originally posted by Lightsnake
A. Basically you're saying you have nothing. I've opened the books. Nothing says Lun created his own style. Nothing.

B. PRove it. The Thousand Years War saw the entire galaxy devastated and both orders crushed. The Jedi Civil War is cited as bloody and wasteful, but didn't damage the Republic overmuch. You're offering no proof but your opinion. And I could cite numerous ways the other wars were more damaging.

C. Prove it. You keep saying this crap but no sources and no proof. And Maul had a unique weapon, he used Juyo. Nikkos Tyris had a different form, he used a saber. So?
Once more: I want canon, LFL approved proof. Not your words

A. Kun was the first to use a double bladed saber, therefore he created it, therefore it's his, and that's providing no proof, just common sense which you don't have. Also it was unlike any others as it was a short hilt and the blades were in diameter, shorter than he was as opposed to all other double bladed sabers that are bigger than the person.

B. Prove what? Youn continuously flaunt around with your "prove it" nonsense. It doesn't even make sense because you don't have an argument. The Jedi Civil War didn't damage the republic? Wow lightsnake, in the beginning of KOTOR II it was said that the war "left the republic in shambles and left the jedi all but extinct". Nice arguing with facts.

C. Maul didn't have a unique weapon you twit, it was a simple double lightsaber, what was your point. You want LFL proof? LOL. Why don't you just say "If GL doesnt say it then I don't believe it". THat's about the only bullshit that will help your defeated argument.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
B. You're the one who said PT is stronger and more martial, while I said that the Jedi Civil War was the worst war in the galaxy up until The Vong arrived. This is FACT.

Oh yes...the Jedi Civil War. May I ask you how a war which happened AFTER KUN'S TIME would affect the skill of his contemporaries ? No ? The only battles happened before the Great Sith War (from the Great Hyperspace War on) were the Third Shism (which ended in the same year with the rouge Jedi blowing themselves up in the Vultar Cataclysm) and the Great Droid Revolution (lasting less than a year).

So where do you get the "more martial time" stuff from. I guess not from the fact that Andur Sunrider, a fully trained TOTJ Jedi wasn't able to defeat some bandits in personal combat while we see Darsha Assent (a Padawan) leveling an entire gang and later Kenobi (whoopie - next Padawan) keeping up with Droidikas, tons of droids and even Black Sun members ? Give me a brake.

C. Oh yes, Kun was slow which is why he defeated his master as a padawan, tooled him again as a master, and stalemated another prodigy. Good one.

I'm pretty sure that Kun wasn't slow. Yet Mace was fast enough to place six hits on Kar Vastor (who's a rather powerful force user on his own especially in the jungle of Haruun Kal) before Vastor could even blink.

And again, since your anti logic, Logic dictates that Kun had to use a different form and/or created his own considering the hilt on his lightsaber was short and he can wield it single handidly.

Yes. Kun created his own form - he had to due to the fact that he created a unique weapon.

Now please compare that to Mace. Mace invented Vaapad at the age of 13 - and this required former mastery of forms IV, V and VII. And he had to learn form I as everybody did. So...Mace mastered four forms and designed his own already at the age of 13 and then he did go on and practice his own form for 40 years.

We know that Kun did master at least some forms according to his movements and duelling ablities displayed in the TOTJ comics (most likely form II, form V and Jar'Kai) but in contrary to Mace he didn't have the time to refine his own style.

And as for vaapad, you have no idea if it is more effective than Kun's form, so quit trying so hard.

Did you actually read Shatterpoint ?
Yoda descripes Vaapad as the "most deadly form of lightsaber combat". Depa using two lightsaber manages to similary deflect blaster fire from two gunboats while being on a third gunboat and is even able to redirect seven blaster bolts into a small hole on the cockpit of one of those gunboats. After she jumped into the third one and slaughtered the entire crew (20 or 30 people) on her own. Talk about effectivity.

This aside from the fact that Mace would have some advantage due to his Shatterpoint ability and in "Shatterpoint" he also says that Depa's bladework had already surpassed his Vaapad. And given that this is a sheer lightsaber fight, I'm pretty sure Mace and Depa would manage to take Kun and Ulic down after a hard fight.

A. PRove it. He's called the first known user. DBLs don't require different forms to use them.

B. Hm, and Go-To says Revan went out of his way to keep the infrastructure intact. You get tired of people asking for proof? You expect us to take your opinion? Prove. Up. The Sith themselves call the Betrayal War the worst and most bloodiest and the Clone wars was unlike anything the galaxy had seen.

C. So what? The length of the hilt matters at all?
And LFL proof: Anything they've published. ANYTHING beyond an opinion. Printed, spoken, or shown facts from an LFL product.
And since GL did say it, I can side with him, thanks.
What I'm saying is I don't care about your opinion, I want something more substantial

I disagree with that Nai. Show Lightsnake that Kun invented his own weapon and style since he loves arguing with stupidity. Now since this is ONLY a lightsaber fight, Windu can't use his shatterpoint. And Depa defeating Ulic? Seriously. This is a SHEER Lightsaber battle, in which Ulic would take out Depa, and Kun would take out Mace after a long fight, or at the very most, Ulic would take out Depa and help Kun finish Mace. Or Ulic and Mace stalemate while Kun tools Depa and finishes off Mace.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
A. PRove it. He's called the first known user. DBLs don't require different forms to use them.

B. Hm, and Go-To says Revan went out of his way to keep the infrastructure intact. You get tired of people asking for proof? You expect us to take your opinion? Prove. Up. The Sith themselves call the Betrayal War the worst and most bloodiest and the Clone wars was unlike anything the galaxy had seen.

C. So what? The length of the hilt matters at all?
And LFL proof: Anything they've published. ANYTHING beyond an opinion. Printed, spoken, or shown facts from an LFL product.
And since GL did say it, I can side with him, thanks.
What I'm saying is I don't care about your opinion, I want something more substantial

A. You're an idiot, which is fact.

B. Us? Only youre arguing facts, nobody else is. Again I reiterate the fact the quote that was stated in KOTOR II so that's your proof. If you don't like it, shut it.

C. Lightsnake, youre an idiot.

A. Insulting beats actually proving your points, doesn't it?

B. So, once Malak took the helm, then. The Sith and the Republic both say differently. And KOTOR II said nothing about it being the bloodiest war ever

C. Once again, insults beat facts.

How can Mace not use his shatterpoint? It's an innate ability, something he was born with.