Originally posted by darthsith19
Kyle might be stronegr than Sidious with a saber but it doesn't matter as Sidious is vastly superior with the Force.
Which doesn't really matter seeing as this is a lightsaber only fight.
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Also we must factor in Palpatine's intellligence. He has decades of knowledge about the Force and manipulation. Katarn lacks the expert experience Palpatine possesses
Yes, as I'm sure Kyle - when he had little to no real Jedi training - lacked experience, and knowledge of the Force, yet somehow he managed to overcome the seven Dark Jedi, who were all described as powerful, and such. Jerec was trained by Sidious himself. He even beat Sariss in a lightsaber duel.
Sariss, who was also a master in lightsaber combat, "Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe." Among six others, all while Kyle had no real training. So, I fail to see how "experience" will save him.
Actually, I should ask "experience" in terms of what exactly? Lightsaber confrontations? I'd say Kyle's had far more. But I'm assuming you mean the Force, which ultimately amounts to not much seeing as this is a lightsaber duel only. And we can always take into account Dooku is far more intelligent than Anakin, has far more experience and knowledge (with a lightsaber, the Force, etc.), yet Anakin beat the shit out of Dooku.
and as we saw with Palpatine-Mace, intelligence can win you a saber fight as much as actual saber skill.
Uh, what we saw was Mace putting Palpatine on his ass in a lightsaber duel - nothing more, nothing less. And Palpatine has more intelligence than Mace, but still lost the lightsaber battle. Your point exactly?
I'm going to say you're either thinking Palpatine won the saber battle, or Mace did because he has more intelligence. I'd definitely assume the former for your end, though, neither one of them are correct. Mace won the saber battle, Palpatine is more intelligent. So, your point really doesn't make sense.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
In one corner we have one of the head combat instructors in the NJO and in the other we have a guy who killed three Jedi master in six seconds.
Nice way of putting it. We could say in one corner we have the NJO Battlemaster, who - with no real Jedi training - took out the seven Dark Jedi, all of which were described as powerful. And in the other corner, we have a closet Sith/politician.
And six seconds? You're off by two seconds. In any case, prove Agen and Tinn were any good on the grand scale.
guy who also went toe to toe with Yoda. I don't see Kyle keeping up with Sidious.
Yes, he went toe to toe in a Force battle. They only clashed sabers for 30 seconds. That's wonderful. This a lightsaber battle, how will throwing pods around and using Force powers that he is restricted from save him? And I suppose Katarn can't keep up with Count Dooku because their lightsaber battle lasted the same amount of time.
Not to mention that in the script(which was left out of the movies), Yoda disarmed Sidious. Obviously if it's not there it isn't canon but I doubt Sidious can go toe to toe with Yoda in a saber duel, otherwise he wouldn't have tried so hard to get the higher ground. And yet he STILL didn't beat him. Kyle by NJO is more powerful than Yoda and ROTS Sidious. Him, Kype, and Luke are ridiculously overpowered but thats the way it goes.
Originally posted by Adas
'In any case, prove Agen and Tinn were any good on the grand scale.'Agen and Tinn were described as some of the order's best duelists ever in the ROTS novel...
Wow, so were about fifty other people. They were not described as "some of the best ever", simply "finest swordsbeings". Definitely not "ever". And again, it's obvious that just being described as such means jack shit as they lasted about 2.5 seconds rounded each. Great display for the "some of the finest swordsbeings".
Now, prove they were good on the grand scale.
In any case, prove that the 7 dark jedi that Kyle faced were any good on the grand scale.
Originally posted by Advent
Didn't I already explain the seven Dark Jedi were powerful? They are not the "average" Dark Jedi, or Reborns. They are the Seven Dark Jedi. Jerec was trained by Lord Vader, Jocasta Nu, and Sidious himself. He was also capable of cutting people off from the Force ("Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to The Force"😉, was a fully trained Jedi, he had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when he fought Kyle, and Qu Rahn had said this:"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."
And Jerec did get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when fighting Kyle, yet Kyle still defeated him even with no real training. And, Jerec was also viewed as one of the galaxy's biggest threats.
He also defeated six other fully trained Jedi. Boc, who used dual lightsabers, and used an unorthodox style. Pic and Gorc, who were described as: "Pic is the energy and Gorc, the counter. They are the clashing balance of opposites: one, the voice; the other, the body. This combination is deadly."
Sariss, who was also a master in lightsaber combat, "Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe."
Yun, who was young and somewhat inexperienced, but nonetheless powerful, "These elements make him a dangerous and unpredictable foe." Then you have Maw, who's only half a body anyways, lol, but is still described as a "strong and formidable foe".
So, it would seem that the seven Dark Jedi Kyle faced weren't average, and were all described as being powerful. We know Jerec is the most powerful out of all of them, and still Kyle beat him.
Originally posted by Advent
But wait, Kyle has also faced an opponent who could harness the power of the Force, and turned it into a beam, Jerec, when he was powered by the Valley of the Jedi:"The Dark Jedi drew upon the energy that leaked out of the Valley, gave it shape, and a hurled the construct at Kyle's chest."
"had just managed to reestablish his footing when a second, more powerful explosion hurled him back into the cargo ship."
Okay, he doesn't need to stop the amulet blast, he just cuts Sadow's connection to the Force off:"The Jedi fell, struggled to stay aloft, and fell again. Something, or someone, had cut his access to the dark side of the Force..."
And really, to your realize the power Jerec held while Kyle did this? Jerec had this kind of power when he got a boost from the Valley of the Jedi: "eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power.", and given he also does this "Jerec turned, extended his hand, and triggered an explosion", which means he just casually stuck out of hand and an explosion happened, I'd be inclined to say he can do it to Sadow (cut him off). Either that or just sever the Dark side energy.
And obviously Katarn is no joke, and is definitely able to keep up with Sidious. He kept up with the Seven Dark Jedi with having no real Jedi training. Jerec would hand Saesee, Agen, and Kit their asses on a platter.
Actually, I should ask "experience" in terms of what exactly? Lightsaber confrontations? I'd say Kyle's had far more. But I'm assuming you mean the Force, which ultimately amounts to not much seeing as this is a lightsaber duel only. And we can always take into account Dooku is far more intelligent than Anakin, has far more experience and knowledge (with a lightsaber, the Force, etc.), yet Anakin beat the shit out of Dooku.
'cause Dooku was effin' old. Look at the timegap between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. In addition, he was supposed to lose. That was the plan. He wasn't giving it his all. He was betrayed by Palpatine and I think if he was going all out, it would have lasted A LOT longer.
Uh, what we saw was Mace putting Palpatine on his ass in a lightsaber duel - nothing more, nothing less. And Palpatine has more intelligence than Mace, but still lost the lightsaber battle. Your point exactly?
I'm not surprised you didn't grasp it.
Facts: Palpatine engaged Mace in a lightsaber duel.
End result: Palpatine alive. Mace dead.
Also to factor into Palpatine's cunning, he may hav elost on purpose. He wanted Anakin to come back and he lost only seconds before Anakin came in. It may have been his intent to lose to Mace and help bring Anakin to the dark side. Palpatine has both a genius mind and an arrogant one. It be like him to throw a fight in his own confidence he would survive and gain from throwing the fight.
And just to make sure you read fact shis time, he killed 3 Jedi Master s in seconds. Soon as Kyle does that, I'll hold him on the same level in lightsaber ability.
As for the wiki article, opinion is opinion. Unless they have that stated in the books, I don't care what it says on wikipedia.