Runner and Silver Surfer vs. Hal Jordan and Superman

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Seeing as how neither Thanos nor Silver Surfer are regulary displaying the ability to react and move in battle at the speed aproaching that of Superman, Runner being that fast in comparison to them isn't exactly one of the best arguments.

They both have enough feats to say they can fight with FTL characters.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Not to mention that as Juntai pointed out, Thanos and the Runner never got to finish the battle and Surfer wasn't at his best when fighting him.

Really, it's not that hard to grasp.

Yes it is. Lets put this in perspective.

A: Ricky and Frank had a fight yesterday
B: Oh who won?
A: Frank.
B: Oh so Frank is the tougher fighter?
A: No Ricky was kicking his ass so Frank got out a gun and shot him.
B: So Frank still won.
A: Yeah I know he won but obvoulsy Ricky is tougher than Frank because Frank was losing the fight and had to use a gun to win.
B: So Frank still won.
A: ....yeah but the point is that Frank....used a gun because he was losing....
B: So Frank won.
A: ????

I'm still not sure how Juntai managed to stand a 'debate' with you for so long.

I shouldn't really call it a debate since he was pretty the only one who was bringing arguments while you were trying to justify Runner winning by bringing the same points over and over again, points that had already been refuted by him.

I knew you'd say that you guys are incredible. *shrug*

Its really quite simple this is kindergarten stuff.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Yes it is. Lets put this in perspective.

A: Ricky and Frank had a fight yesterday
B: Oh who won?
A: Frank.
B: Oh so Frank is the tougher fighter?
A: No Ricky was kicking his ass so Frank got out a gun and shot him.
B: So Frank still won.
A: Yeah I know he won but obvoulsy Ricky is tougher than Frank because Frank was losing the fight and had to use a gun to win.
B: So Frank still won.
A: ....yeah but the point is that Frank....used a gun because he was losing....
B: So Frank won.
A: ????

Is the Runner gaining the upper hand on Thanos and on the Surfer (who wasn't at his best) more impressive than Superman's showings ? Especially since Thanos and Surfer, like I said, aren't regulary displaying reflexes and combat speed on Superman's level ?

No.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Is the Runner gaining the upper hand on Thanos and on the Surfer (who wasn't at his best) more impressive than Superman's showings ? Especially since Thanos and Surfer, like I said, aren't regulary displaying reflexes and combat speed on Superman's level ?

No.

Well heres the thing is not just about speed. SS stated that all Elders were more powerful than him. Runner has the PP which is similar to the power cosmic, so Runner can also defeat him through other means.

So I think so, yes.

Has the runner displayed a lot of various powers?

Norrin vs Hal

Originally posted by llagrok
Has the runner displayed a lot of various powers?

Originally posted by guy222
Norrin vs Hal

That's Kyle, buddy.

Originally posted by batdude123
That's Kyle, buddy.

📖 again....it is

👆

Originally posted by guy222
📖 again....it is

👆

Originally posted by guy222
Norrin vs Hal

Team 1.

Originally posted by llagrok
Has the runner displayed a lot of various powers?

Intangibility, mind control, energy projection, telepathy.

Sersi, Ikaris and Thena are hardly superspeed characters comparable to the likes of Superman, regardless of them being "herald level." ermm I've little doubt Superman, and others of comparable speed can replicate that.

Out of curiosity under this same premise:

Originally posted by Alfheim
Do you know how powerful Hyperion is and GM created him from nothing after travelling through time. Hyperion is a herald level character, doesnt Big G create herald level characters from his power source?

If you think SS is beating somebody that powerful without PIS then you dont know what it is.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Sersi, Ikaris and Thena are hardly superspeed characters comparable to the likes of Superman, regardless of them being "herald level." ermm I've little doubt Superman, and others of comparable speed can replicate that.

They still have superhuman reflexes . For example Ikaris has blasted Cap in the chest and Cap wasnt even fast enough to react. Juidcator most defintely has superhuman reflexes and is an Elder of the universe.

Its better than giving me examples of blitzing peak humans (not you somebody else)

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Out of curiosity under this same premise:
Would you say Silver Surfer would need PIS to beat someone capable of creating six sentient Green Lanterns (one of them a Daxamite, another able to tap the Speed Force) as well as another being capable of taking on alone a JLA roster which included Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter? And that someone would be considered "sub-skyfather" and/or Thanos level? hmm

To be quite honest I would have thought if you could do that could make you skyfather and Surfer would not be able to beat somebody that powerful. 😐

Originally posted by Alfheim
To be quite honest I would have thought if you could do that could make you skyfather and Surfer would not be able to beat somebody that powerful. 😐

The character who did the above was Green Lantern, Kyle Rayner. I'll take your statement above to mean Kyle ~= Grandmaster? Grandmaster much>Surfer? Hal=Kyle. Hal much>Surfer? So Hal beats Surfer with ease, and the duo then proceed to beat Runner?

I don't necessarily believe all or perhaps even any of the above and haven't really decided on who wins. But isn't the ABC logic game fun... 313

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Interesting... ermmhappy

The character who did the above was Green Lantern, Kyle Rayner. I'll take your statement above to mean Kyle ~= Grandmaster? Grandmaster much>Surfer? Hal=Kyle. Hal much>Surfer? So Hal beats Surfer with ease, and the duo then proceed to beat Runner?

I don't necessarily believe all or perhaps even any of the above and haven't really decided on who wins. But isn't the ABC logic game fun... 313

To be quite honest though I kinda doubt that Kyle could do that all the time, this again sounds like the example of where MM easily controlled the Spectre and where MM periced the defences of a being that pawned a planet full of Thanos level being. Sounds like PIS actually.

He created a superman level being but something tells me he had trouble from less powerful characters.

Wait a minute..

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Out of curiosity under this same premise:
Would you say Silver Surfer would need PIS to beat someone capable of creating six sentient Green Lanterns (one of them a Daxamite, another able to tap the Speed Force) as well as another being capable of taking on alone a JLA roster which included Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter? And that someone would be considered "sub-skyfather" and/or Thanos level? hmm

What did these constructs actually do ive seen scans of Kyle creating sentinet Gls but all they did is punch somebody in the face. You said he created beings capable of but what did they actaully do?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Intangibility, mind control, energy projection, telepathy.

Durability as possibly projected force fields.
He was standing in a sun without flinching and protecting moondragon at the same time.

why is this still being discussed? 🤨

Surfer, runner get majority. Even if Runner is a high mid or low herald. It doesnt matter