Originally posted by Alliance
No. Sometimes the answer is not known. This is when logic is most useful to get the best working model of a situation.
Originally posted by Alliance
Yes, but eventially, the logic of one model wins out over the model of antother. That is the premise of the scientific community.
Originally posted by Alliance
I dont make that assumption, but I have never seen JIA beat him.JIA may make a rebuttal, that doesn mena his rebuttal is valid, appropriate, or presents a superior argument.
Originally posted by NellinatorIn the case of JIA, it typically is illogical though. Any reasoning that does not consider alternatives is illogical. JIA does not consider anything but his own view, this is illogical. Also, valid information presented illogically does not make a logical post.
It isn't always inferior though and that seems to be the assumption about JIA posts nowadays. Sometimes he actually presents logical and/or factual information and it is ignored. It also shouldn't automatically be assumed that religion is illogical, but it seems that many people do.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotOnly because use of Occam's Razor is extreme and rash in some contexts, the existence of God being an instance where the Razor does not hold valid logical usage.
Meh. It's only one of the many principles of logic that religion is incongruous with and the logical fallacies the religious often commit.
Originally posted by Regret
Only because use of Occam's Razor is extreme and rash in some contexts, the existence of God being an instance where the Razor does not hold valid logical usage.
Occams Razor is a great guideline, but it often fails. Especially since the dawn of modern science, it has fallen out of use.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotI would agree with you as to this being true of JIA's, and those with similar stances, view of religion, but I do think myself, Shaky, and a few others that post on here have fairly logical reasoning for much of our religious beliefs.
Which is why I subsequently stated that it's only one among many incongruities between religion and logic.
Originally posted by Regret
I would agree with you as to this being true of JIA's, and those with similar stances, view of religion, but I do think myself, Shaky, and a few others that post on here have fairly logical reasoning for much of our religious beliefs.
My logic defers to God's Word. Logic is fine just as long as it agrees with or is consistent with the Word of God. For example, it is logical that this universe was created exactly the way that the Bible reveals that it was created. This is logical to me. The theory of evolution is not logical to me and is not consistent or compatible with the modus operandi that the Bible reveals that God utilized in creating the universe and everything therein. Moreover, it is logical to me that God has a spiritual body instead of a physical body as you claim. Jesus said that God is a Spirit, so it stands to reason that God has a spiritual body. But you believe that God has a physical body. But what is most appalling is that you believe this and preach it in the face of Scriptures to the contrary. And yet you allege that I am not logical? It is illogical for anyone to believe something that the Bible clearly contradicts--that is not logical. It is not logical for you to give your Mormon doctrine precedence over the Bible, especially since your doctrine should agree with the Bible and actually be derived from the Bible. That is not logical. You cannot find anything illogical that I have said relative to the Bible. For everything that I state is soundly supported with Scripture. This is logical.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Storm, I read everything that you wrote. I understand where you are coming from. But...how can a HUMAN mind produce a MIRACLE? How can someone who is terminally ill be healed from that condition by the human mind? How can someone who is blind all of a sudden see by virture of the human mind? How can a person who was dead (clinically dead: no heartbeat no brain waves. I think this constitutes clinical death.) be raised from the dead by the mind?Yet NONE of the aforementioned events were effected by the mind; they were done by God's power.
Furthermore, if the mind is so great then how come the mind has not overcome crime, sickness and disease, poverty and all of humankind's other problems? Things are just getting worse: read your daily newspaper. In conclusion, how come the human mind CANNOT OVERCOME DEATH?
I leave you with those final words...
There are many who believe that miracles are proof of god’s existence. We hear wild claims that a healing has taken place but we never get an independent testimony from a medical office or a surgeon. We hear second-hand reports that someone was miraculously saved from disaster but we never get an eye-witness account of what is supposed to have happened. We hear rumours that prayer straightened a diseased body or strengthened a withered limb, but we never see X-rays or get comments from doctors or nurses. Wild claims, second-hand reports and rumours are no substitute for solid evidence and solid evidence of miracles is very rare.
However, sometimes unexplained things do happen, unexpected events do occur. But our inability to explain such things does NOT prove the existence of god(s). It only proves that our knowledge is as yet incomplete. Before the development of modern medicine, when people didn’t know what caused sickness people believed that god or the gods sent diseases as a punishment. Now we know what causes such things and when we get sick, we take medicine. In time when our knowledge of the world is more complete, we will be able to understand what causes unexplained phenomena, just as we can now understand what causes disease.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
My logic defers to God's Word. Logic is fine just as long as it agrees with or is consistent with the Word of God. For example, it is logical that this universe was created exactly the way that the Bible reveals that it was created. This is logical to me. The theory of evolution is not logical to me and is not consistent or compatible with the modus operandi that the Bible reveals that God utilized in creating the universe and everything therein. Moreover, it is logical to me that God has a spiritual body instead of a physical body as you claim. Jesus said that God is a Spirit, so it stands to reason that God has a spiritual body. But you believe that God has a physical body. But what is most appalling is that you believe this and preach it in the face of Scriptures to the contrary. And yet you allege that I am not logical? It is illogical for anyone to believe something that the Bible clearly contradicts--that is not logical. It is not logical for you to give your Mormon doctrine precedence over the Bible, especially since your doctrine should agree with the Bible and actually be derived from the Bible. That is not logical. You cannot find anything illogical that I have said relative to the Bible. For everything that I state is soundly supported with Scripture. This is logical.
Thus from anyone that does not believe the "JIA Bible interpretation" on here, your posts and reasoning are illogical. Logic is a universal thing. Your reasoning only holds value among "JIA Bible interpretation" believers, it is illogical by anyone else's beliefs.
Your reasoning as to prophets words is invalid. It is the same reasoning by which the Jews attacked Christ and the Apostles. You are making the same fundamental error that they did. Also, you are validating their stance at the time of Christ.
I never state my beliefs as fact that overrides another's position. I at times state my beliefs when addressing a topic. I do not attempt to force my beliefs as fact that others must accept as you have a tendency to do. This would be illogical.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
My logic defers to God's Word. Logic is fine just as long as it agrees with or is consistent with the Word of God. For example, it is logical that this universe was created exactly the way that the Bible reveals that it was created. This is logical to me. The theory of evolution is not logical to me and is not consistent or compatible with the modus operandi that the Bible reveals that God utilized in creating the universe and everything therein. Moreover, it is logical to me that God has a spiritual body instead of a physical body as you claim. Jesus said that God is a Spirit, so it stands to reason that God has a spiritual body. But you believe that God has a physical body. But what is most appalling is that you believe this and preach it in the face of Scriptures to the contrary. And yet you allege that I am not logical? It is illogical for anyone to believe something that the Bible clearly contradicts--that is not logical. It is not logical for you to give your Mormon doctrine precedence over the Bible, especially since your doctrine should agree with the Bible and actually be derived from the Bible. That is not logical. You cannot find anything illogical that I have said relative to the Bible. For everything that I state is soundly supported with Scripture. This is logical.
As I have said before - it is easy to be right when one works under the condition "everybody who disagrees with me is wrong as my view is right."
Sadly that doesn't work in the rational world. For a claim to be true to requires support to verify itself. Simply saying "may claim is right because it says it is" is not, repeat not, proof.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
As I have said before - it is easy to be right when one works under the condition "everybody who disagrees with me is wrong as my view is right."Sadly that doesn't work in the rational world. For a claim to be true to requires support to verify itself. Simply saying "may claim is right because it says it is" is not, repeat not, proof.
If God's Word states that God is a Spirit and I say that God is a Spirit, I am in agreement with the Word of God. That is not my interpretation of what the Bible says. If I say, "Well, I think that God has a physical body," now I have just contradicted the Word of God. Now I have given my interpretation. There is a difference between interpreting and quoting what the Bible says. I quote what the Word says or reiterate what the Word already states.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
If God's Word states that God is a Spirit and I say that God is a Spirit, I am in agreement with the Word of God. That is not my interpretation of what the Bible says. If I say, "Well, I think that God has a physical body," now I have just contradicted the Word of God. Now I have given my interpretation. There is a difference between interpreting and quoting what the Bible says. I quote what the Word says or reiterate what the Word already states.
Doesn't change the fact that to any rational debater or expert who sees reason to disagree with such claims such a tactic is absurd.
My claims don't justify themselves. Apparently Muslims using the Koran don't or anything else.
It is correct, and it does not in anyway make you more convincing. As I said - easy to be right when you have a rule that says "anyone who disagrees is wrong" - and you wonder why Christianity was turned upon so fiercely by people sick of generations of intellectual oppression?
Do you not in the least see why the other side feels as it doen when you have that attitude?