Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I don't agree. The Treaty of Versailles was just designed to keep them in check.
it was designed to keep them broke and humiliated. it was a universal act of reckless gloating and the world payed for it. thankfully we were able to just blame everything on hitler. germany gone crazy? hitler. dead jews? hitler. some skinhead prick keyed my car? hitler
Originally posted by Bardock42
Check, right? Blame the whole war on Germany alone and take enormous amounts of reparations to keep them in check. Worked out fine as well, twenty years later they were up kicking ass again.
Germany also started WW II. They also lost.
Back then, Germany (or the German government as you wish) were the "bad guys". I'm not saying the other countries were all innocent, but compared to Germany, they weren't too bad.
Originally posted by who?-kid
Germany was already preparing itself for a long and brutal European war years before WW I. They lost the war however, and paid for it. I don't see the problem here.Germany also started WW II. They also lost.
Back then, Germany (or the German government as you wish) were the "bad guys". I'm not saying the other countries were all innocent, but compared to Germany, they weren't too bad.
Everyone was, not just Germany...in WW1 Germany were hardly the bad guys at all..get your facts straight.
Originally posted by who?-kid
Not quite. Enlighten me.
Every country had their reasons for the war and every country has part of the responsibility of the war.
Austria-Hungary: Wanted to keep the Balkan regions
Germany: To strengthen their position, win Colonial power, et.
France: Revenge on germany, Alsace-Lorraine, Regain their major position on the continent...
Russia: Wanted the Balkans as well, Pan-Slavism, control of the black sea, etc.
Great Britain: Weaken germany, keep their Naval Superiority...
And so on...
To solely blame Germany is ludicrous..that should be obvious.
Originally posted by who?-kidSo was France and Russia.
Germany was already preparing itself for a long and brutal European war years before WW I.
Originally posted by who?-kidI don't think losing farm land, not being able to unite with Austria, paying money to France and Britain AND a limited army, doesn't really go under "paying for it".
They lost the war however, and paid for it. I don't see the problem here.
Originally posted by who?-kidThey started WW2 to get their land back from Poland. They didn't start WW1 however.
Germany also started WW II. They also lost.
Originally posted by who?-kidGermany wasn't the "bad guys" that really depends on which side you were on.
Back then, Germany (or the German government as you wish) were the "bad guys". I'm not saying the other countries were all innocent, but compared to Germany, they weren't too bad.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Every country had their reasons for the war and every country has part of the responsibility of the war.Austria-Hungary: Wanted to keep the Balkan regions
Germany: To strengthen their position, win Colonial power, et.
France: Revenge on germany, Alsace-Lorraine, Regain their major position on the continent...
Russia: Wanted the Balkans as well, Pan-Slavism, control of the black sea, etc.
Great Britain: Weaken germany, keep their Naval Superiority...
And so on...To solely blame Germany is ludicrous..that should be obvious.
didn't germany attacked russia and france unprovoked (although russia had been mobilizing troops)? they also invaded belgium, a completely neutral country to get into france from the north which is what prompted england to declare war. you're right every country bares the responsibility for what happened, and germany was by no means the bad guys. However it was germany that turned a skirmish between Austria hungary and some terrorist group in serbia into a world war. but they fought the americans (briefly) so i'm biased.
What caused WWI was the crazy alliance system in Europe at the time: A Serb shoots the Austro-Hungarian Emperor; A-H declares war on Serbia. Serbia has an alliance with Russia, so Russia mobilises in support of Serbia. However, because of poor administration/flexibility of Russian army, they had to mobilise on their whole front, including German border, so Germany mobilises as a result. Russia is part of the 'Entente Cordiale' with Britain and France, so when she is threatened, they mobilise too. Britain also has a defensive alliance with Belgium, so when Germany invades Belgium, Britain defends them.
NB - I may have 1 or 2 of these details a little incorrect, but the basic gist is correct - it was the system of alliances that caused the 'World' war!
Originally posted by MithlondNo, the alliance (Germany/Italy/AH) and the Entente (France/Russia/UK) formed in 1870. 😐
What caused WWI was the crazy alliance system in Europe at the time: A Serb shoots the Austro-Hungarian Emperor;
Originally posted by MithlondYes, you are right about that.
NB - I may have 1 or 2 of these details a little incorrect, but the basic gist is correct - it was the system of alliances that caused the 'World' war!
Originally posted by Bardock42Yeah, I just realized that after finishing 1984.
Well, then let me rephrase, what do you base your opinion on that murder is actually evil? That harming people is evil?To answer your question, in case there does some sort of evil exist, I find it just as possible that Hitler was still not evil while others were. I have no clue how some absolute sort of moral code could look like, but why shouldn't killing Jews, homosexuals, etc. be one of the best good deeds a human can do? Could be.
Why? Any proof of that? Where does it absolutely and undeniably say that Hitler was evil? Since I am very able to deny it...weirdly enough.
Debbie, think before you post...and then just don't do it. The part you posted isn't even a full statement. Think, debbie. THINK.
In a subjective sense for many people. Sure, does that mean he was actually evil? No.
That's nice Flamboyant, but I am not sure if I would. It might change my opinion, since it is just the kind of thing that changes people' opinions and psychological structure. I like to think I would still think the same, but even if I wouldn't, it doesn't mean I am wrong now....because I happen to be right.
If something would change your opinion to "the earth is flat as a pancake" ...would you be right, just because that something happened? Or were you right before, when you said the earth is a sphere?
Originally posted by Bardock42
Check, right? Blame the whole war on Germany alone and take enormous amounts of reparations to keep them in check. Worked out fine as well, twenty years later they were up kicking ass again.
Yes, check.
And why do you keep saying "they"? You are in fact German, right?
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, for one they didn't start the war...that should be proof enough, don't you think?
It's true that Germany didn't start the war, but you guys allowed it to escalate to what it became: a world war. Germany didn't have to enter, but it's alliances and pride were more important, apparently.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Yes, check.And why do you keep saying "they"? You are in fact German, right?
It's true that Germany didn't start the war, but you guys allowed it to escalate to what it became: a world war. Germany didn't have to enter, but it's alliances and pride were more important, apparently.
Yes, I am German, but I didn't really have much to do with World War I, if it pleases you I can say "we" instead.
And to claim that "we" let it escalate is ridiculous as well...Russia started mobilizing and did not reply to the Ultimatum they got, England entered because Belgium's neutrality rights were disregarded...why don't you say anything about pride and alliances there? Of course Kaiser Wilhelm II wanted a war..but so did Russia, France, Austria and others....