Mace has:
Originally posted by jollyjim311
*Single handedly defeated a seismic tank on Dantooine.
*Only ever beaten by Yoda and Dooku.
*Beat Greivous in lightsaber combat.
*Outclassed Asajj in combat, even when she used her double bladed lightsaber.
*Shatterpoint.
*Vaapad.
*Easily outclassed Quinlain Vos in combat.
*Left Sora Bulq in a pile of debris.
*Said to be on par with Yoda (he isn't as good, but he sure is close).
*Survived Geonosis (and the rest of the Clone Wars).
*Killed Jango Fett.
*Beat Sidious in lightsaber combat and was able to hold off his lightning for a good time.
*Has used force crush and other direct assaults with the force.There are those and many more.
Revan was able to (sneak his way through the Star Forge?, and) beat Malak after an "Epic duel."(Suggesting that it was close).
and you're saying the better reflexes will win Revan the match?
Originally posted by yettoh
i pretty much think reven could beat mace or kyle not both at same time maybe because reven and makal were in the jedi civil war as teh leaders and after that it lft the repuplic and the jedi shattered and destroyed the council after mastering the sith ways
They can't recruit an army in a versus match...
Originally posted by zephiel7
Bullshit. Malak references Revan as being 'stupid' because he did not understand the true power of the darkise (which was to empower any force user strong enough to use it). Other Sith Lords were mentioned trying to use said battle station, but were obliterated by its power.
Lmao. Again: It requires some considerable amount of power to use the SF but it's never said that it does give power to anybody.
Right, and tell me why would Darth Revan not be able to take down Mace. Mace was barely able to defend against ROTS Sidious' force lightning, so please, explain how he can withstand Revan's force abilities which were described as lightning arching from the sky (not the wielders fingertips). This resembles a force storm.
Unsupported assumptions much ? Mace was the second most powerful Jedi in the PT order and aside of this a lightsaber prodigy. In the same manner I could ask you what Revan would do against a force crush coming from Mace. Drop down dead ?
And it doesn't resemble a force storm unless Revan did "ravage space-time itself" - not that this couldn't be anything that the premitive people there possibly spotted (starship turbolaser fire and so on). The only thing that is said is that Revan did "call lightning from the sky" that did "kill one of their scouting parties". Sidious before ROTJ fried an battalion of Stormtroopers with force lightning. So what ?
Also describe how Mace has a significant advantage with his Vaapad, considering Revan's Echani precognition (being able to perceive the melee attacks made by an opponent before they actually do it).
Read Shatterpoint. And Revan doesn't have Echani precognition - his Jedi precognition is just superior to the Echani precog. Of course you can argue that Mace doesn't have Jedi precognition but I would call that stupid. And Mace does have his shatterpoint ability...
Oh wow. Obi Wan "greatest Soresu master of the PT" Kenobi cannot strategically prolong a duel so that help can arrive to his side? Dooku threw Kenobi around because Kenobi was using an offensive stance, which was clearly not his area of expertise.
More unsupported assumptions please. Dooku took Obi-Wan down because Dooku was the superior force user. Want to compare Obi-Wan "almost singled out from the order because of a lack of force potential" Kenobi to Kyle "force and lightsaber prodigy equipped with some part of the power of the Valley of the Jedi" Katarn now who was able to take down an entire Imperial Base without using his force powers between MotS and JK II ? Nice try.
Show how Mace can delfect Revan's superiour lightning. Explain how is Vaapad can defeat Revan's superiour precognition.
Proof to me that Revan has superior lightning (compared to Sidious) or superior precognition (compared to Mace). You can't, you lose.
How I see it, Revan defeats Mace, and meanwhile, Katarn is pushing Obi Wan around. Afterwards Revan would come to Kenobi's side and take down Katarn.
Yes. Revan will surely defeat a force and lightsaber prodigy with more than 4 decades of training and 2 years of battle experience who was legendary enough to make people RUN by just hinting he might draw his lightsaber in the next seconds.
Then Kenobi does just have to last long enough against the foremost battlemaster of the NJO, trained mercenary, force and lightsaber prodigy to enable Revan to pull something off that he maybe even can't do.
What was it exactly that stops Kyle from force pushing Kenobi into the next wall and then help Mace with destroying Revan ?
'Lmao. Again: It requires some considerable amount of power to use the SF but it's never said that it does give power to anybody.'
Malak states that Revan would have perhaps become invincible if he had learnt to harness the full power of the SF, so it clearly does power up the user who is controlling it.
Now if we take Malak's word for it (why not? Malak would have no reaosn to lie and he would have had a reliably and realistic indication of the power of th SF), Revan was either close to invincible, or the SF powers up the user controlling it by a phenomenal amount. Either way, it's a plus for Revan.
What was it exactly that stops Kyle from force pushing Kenobi into the next wall and then help Mace with destroying Revan ?
WTF, Kenobi will get up? Wow, a Force Push can kill/lose conscious of one of the Jedi Order's greatest warriors 😆
Unsupported assumptions much ? Mace was the second most powerful Jedi in the PT order and aside of this a lightsaber prodigy. In the same manner I could ask you what Revan would do against a force crush coming from Mace. Drop down dead ?
What can Mace Windu do against Revan's lightning or his Stun? Drop down unconscious or dead?
And it doesn't resemble a force storm unless Revan did "ravage space-time itself" - not that this couldn't be anything that the premitive people there possibly spotted (starship turbolaser fire and so on). The only thing that is said is that Revan did "call lightning from the sky" that did "kill one of their scouting parties". Sidious before ROTJ fried an battalion of Stormtroopers with force lightning. So what ?
Yeah, Sidious is using Force lightning, while Revan is using Force storm, an upgraded version.
Yes. Revan will surely defeat a force and lightsaber prodigy with more than 4 decades of training and 2 years of battle experience who was legendary enough to make people RUN by just hinting he might draw his lightsaber in the next seconds.
Wow, Revan has Force Valor, he won't be scared. And this is Revan, who defeated the Mandalorians, became Dark Lord of the Sith, almost unlocked the true power of the Star Forge, returned as a Jedi and was at the padawan level when he went on to defeat Malak and his whole Sith Empire. The whole Sith empire feared him.
Then Kenobi does just have to last long enough against the foremost battlemaster of the NJO, trained mercenary, force and lightsaber prodigy to enable Revan to pull something off that he maybe even can't do.
Then Kyle just has to last long enough against one of the greatest Soresu users, who faced off and gave a Sith Lord a run for is a money as a padawan, who fought and would have defeat one of the galaxy's most feared bounty hunters, High General and battleworthy Jedi during the Clone Wars, slayer of General Grievous, survived against Darth Vader and defeated him, killed a cybernetic Darth maul, and much more.
Wow, I actually feel sorry for Katarn.
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
WTF, Kenobi will get up? Wow, a Force Push can kill/lose conscious of one of the Jedi Order's greatest warriors
Yeah, I'd think a Force push through a wall will take out Kenobi. And are you assuming Kyle is on par with Obi-Wan in lightsaber and Force mastery? He took out the Seven Dark Jedi with having little to no real Jedi training, and they are all described as powerful. And just read on.
What can Mace Windu do against Revan's lightning or his Stun? Drop down unconscious or dead?
Where has Revan canonically shown us a "Stun"? And prove that a primitive race that hasn't seen magic in a millenia is qualified enough to give a valid description. As well, Sidious' Force storm doesn't even look like lightning:
Anyways, the point is that in KOTOR, we know their Force Storms arc up, and come down:
So, prove without a reasonable doubt that:
1.) Darth Revan is now Darth Raiden.
2.) The Rakatans testimony is reliable.
Yeah, Sidious is using Force lightning, while Revan is using Force storm, an upgraded version.
Except you have no idea how strong Sidious' lightning is compared to Revan's. And as well, by going by the definition of "Force Storm" for the KOTOR era - all it is, is just lightning hitting multiple enemies. Sidious has fried multiple Stormtroopers. So, you were saying?
And as well, an actual Force Storm is like a wormhole, and it also "ravages space and time" as Borbarad said, which can be found in the Dark Empire comics when he unleashes it.
Wow, Revan has Force Valor, he won't be scared.
Prove it. Where canonically does he know "Force Valor"? And again, how is this going to save him from getting sliced in half? I'm sure most Jedi increase their skills with the Force anyways. We know Yoda does.
And this is Revan, who defeated the Mandalorians, became Dark Lord of the Sith, almost unlocked the true power of the Star Forge, returned as a Jedi and was at the padawan level when he went on to defeat Malak and his whole Sith Empire. The whole Sith empire feared him.
Feared him so much they sent Bandon and two other goons to take him out.
Then Kyle just has to last long enough against one of the greatest Soresu users, who faced off and gave a Sith Lord a run for is a money as a padawan, who fought and would have defeat one of the galaxy's most feared bounty hunters, High General and battleworthy Jedi during the Clone Wars, slayer of General Grievous, survived against Darth Vader and defeated him, killed a cybernetic Darth maul, and much more.
Originally posted by Advent
But wait, Kyle has also faced an opponent who could harness the power of the Force, and turned it into a beam, Jerec, when he was powered by the Valley of the Jedi:"The Dark Jedi drew upon the energy that leaked out of the Valley, gave it shape, and a hurled the construct at Kyle's chest."
"had just managed to reestablish his footing when a second, more powerful explosion hurled him back into the cargo ship."
Okay, he doesn't need to stop the amulet blast, he just cuts Sadow's connection to the Force off:"The Jedi fell, struggled to stay aloft, and fell again. Something, or someone, had cut his access to the dark side of the Force..."
And really, to your realize the power Jerec held while Kyle did this? Jerec had this kind of power when he got a boost from the Valley of the Jedi: "eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power.", and given he also does this "Jerec turned, extended his hand, and triggered an explosion", which means he just casually stuck out of hand and an explosion happened,
Originally posted by Advent
Didn't I already explain the seven Dark Jedi were powerful? They are not the "average" Dark Jedi, or Reborns. They are the Seven Dark Jedi. Jerec was trained by Lord Vader, Jocasta Nu, and Sidious himself. He was also capable of cutting people off from the Force ("Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to The Force"😉, was a fully trained Jedi, he had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when he fought Kyle, and Qu Rahn had said this:"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."
And Jerec did get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when fighting Kyle, yet Kyle still defeated him even with no real training. And, Jerec was also viewed as one of the galaxy's biggest threats.
He also defeated six other fully trained Jedi. Boc, who used dual lightsabers, and used an unorthodox style. Pic and Gorc, who were described as: "Pic is the energy and Gorc, the counter. They are the clashing balance of opposites: one, the voice; the other, the body. This combination is deadly."
Sariss, who was also a master in lightsaber combat, "Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe."
Yun, who was young and somewhat inexperienced, but nonetheless powerful, "These elements make him a dangerous and unpredictable foe." Then you have Maw, who's only half a body anyways, lol, but is still described as a "strong and formidable foe".
So, it would seem that the seven Dark Jedi Kyle faced weren't average, and were all described as being powerful. We know Jerec is the most powerful out of all of them, and still Kyle beat him.
Originally posted by Advent
And really, Kyle is simply a lightsaber prodigy and master (like Ulic and Kun were). He defeated Desann, where Luke didn't (well, there was a reason for that though), and numerous other Dark Jedi. I mean, seriously, he defeated the seven Dark Jedi in combat, including Jerec (who was a fully trained Jedi as well), without much training at all actually. And keep in mind that Jerec was trained by Sidious himself, and Vader. Kyle was the Battlemaster as well of the era. He was able to defeat Boba when working as a mercenary, and numerous other Imperial troopers. And also challenged Mara herself without any training still. I'd say he has far more combat experience
Yeah, read that. And by the way, Obi-Wan never defeated a mechanical Maul canonically. That happened in an Infinity comic. And you listed a feat of being a "High General" as if he'll win. You can also add that he again, got lucky against Grievous. And that he got lucky as hell against Maul. And that he had to claim terrain advantage, run around doing various tricks and such (lava skating, platform jumping, running away) to beat Anakin. Otherwise, Anakin - on even ground - would've killed Kenobi. He was beating the shit out of him until he got "the high ground". A 20 second long Dragon Sleeper anyone?
Wow, I actually feel sorry for Katarn.
Do you have any reason to? This is absolute bullshit! I'll see your ass in court.
Yeah, I'd think a Force push through a wall will take out Kenobi. And are you assuming Kyle is on par with Obi-Wan in lightsaber and Force mastery? He took out the Seven Dark Jedi with having little to no real Jedi training, and they are all described as powerful. And just read on.
Yeah, and I think a Force Push at Kyle will take him out as well.
Where has Revan canonically shown us a "Stun"? And prove that a primitive race that hasn't seen magic in a millenia is qualified enough to give a valid description. As well, Sidious' Force storm doesn't even look like lightning:
In the game, Stun is lightside power and Revan, as we know, is canocally a lightsider.
And prove that a primitive race that hasn't seen magic in a millenia is qualified enough to give a valid description.
WTF, the Rakatans are not stupid. They'll probably have written records. And they are not primitive if they made the Star Forge
Prove it. Where canonically does he know "Force Valor"? And again, how is this going to save him from getting sliced in half? I'm sure most Jedi increase their skills with the Force anyways. We know Yoda does.
In the game, Valor is a lightside power and Revan, as we know, is canocally a lightsider.
And did I ever say Kyle is going to lose against Kenobi. No, I am saying Kenobi is going to survive long enough for Revan to come to his rescue.
Do you have any reason to? This is absolute bullshit! I'll see your ass in court.
Bring it on!!! I'll be calling my lawyer!
