Originally posted by Punkyhermy
Nothing in the book encourages violence. 🙄 Quite the contrary really.
Hahaha! Good one.
For you to claim that there is NOTHING in the Qur'an which encourages violence just stupid.
More or less retarded statement.
Shall we look at the evidence? I think we should, before I get accused again of ''never reading the Qur'an''
Kill the non-believers -
Qur'an 009.123
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
SHAKIR: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
Qur'an 002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
Qur'an 009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
note - interesting paragraph - kill me whererever you find me, but if i turn to Islam, the leave me alone. Hmmm, peaceful indeed.
Qur'an 047.004
YUSUFALI: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
PICKTHAL: Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.
SHAKIR: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
Qur'an 066.009
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed).
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be hard against them; and their abode is hell; and evil is the resort.
Qur'an 008.065
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.
How about this next verse. Apply this verse to the people blowing themselves up, and a lot will make sense.
Qur'an 047.004
YUSUFALI: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
PICKTHAL: Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.
SHAKIR: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
Qur'an 009.028
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! The idolaters only are unclean. So let them not come near the Inviolable Place of Worship after this their year. If ye fear poverty (from the loss of their merchandise) Allah shall preserve you of His bounty if He will. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.
Qur'an 009.014
YUSUFALI: Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,
PICKTHAL: Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers.
SHAKIR: Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.
Therefore, don't insult my intelligance! This book has a strange amounts of ''fight them, kill them, smite them, pagans are unclean, dont mix with non believers, beat your women if they disobay'' for a religion of peace!
Sourse of my ''claims'' http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
Originally posted by Nogoodnamesleft
I'm afraid the man is right. I've seen some stuff taken from that book, and I can tell you that it's not a peaceful book. It's like the Old Testament.
You're afraid? As in it pains you to condemn any religion other than yours? I'd think you'd be praising them, considering how you view women, minorities and politics.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Praising them? As in their view of women, minorities and politics is better. I think not.
I said "nogoodnamesleft" should be praising them, as he views women, homosexuals, people of colour, social policy, etc are all medieval. At least in this current manifestation of Whob's multiple personality disorder.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I said "nogoodnamesleft" should be praising them, as he views women, homosexuals, people of colour, social policy, etc are all medieval. At least in this current manifestation of Whob's multiple personality disorder.
I just did a search, and nothing came up, but if the evidence of SOCK keep on coming, there will be no room for compromise.
My apologies for misunderstanding.
This...'evidence' to your not very original argument has left me amused ms. Bitchiness. Mainly because there doesn't seem to have been any sort of independant thought behind what you have presented so far. 😬
Let me clarify. This tactic of taking stuff out of context has been done. many times over, and yielded all kinds of reactions. Gaston show's a clip of the beast roaring ferociously to a crowd of oblivious, innocent villagers and they are scared and outraged enough to follow him on the quest to 'kill the beast'.
You are doing the same thing here.In the sense that putting up meticulously extracted verses from the entirety of the Quran and presenting them out of context so that they stand true to yoru argument. If Gaston can make the beast look ferocious, you can surely make your argument appear valid.
Those snippets of the total verses have been taken from the Surah of the Quran entitled, "The Immunity" .
[9.1] (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.
[9.2] So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
[9.3] And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.
[9.4] Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty). [9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.6] And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.
[9.7] How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Apostle; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them ; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
[9.8] How (can it be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of them are transgressors. [9.9] They have taken a small price for the communications of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that they do.
[9.10] They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond the limits.
[9.11] But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.
[9.12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion , then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing -- so that they may desist.
[9.13] What! will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Apostle, and they attacked you first ; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.
[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.
[9.15] And remove the rage of their hearts ; and Allah turns (mercifully) to whom He pleases, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
---
Its a pity how a simple talk of self defence is twisted into a terrorist mantra of sorts by the so called muslims of today. 😬
Originally posted by Punkyhermy
This...'evidence' to your not very original argument has left me amused ms. Bitchiness. Mainly because there doesn't seem to have been any sort of independant thought behind what you have presented so far. 😬Let me clarify. This tactic of taking stuff out of context has been done. many times over, and yielded all kinds of reactions. Gaston show's a clip of the beast roaring ferociously to a crowd of oblivious, innocent villagers and they are scared and outraged enough to follow him on the quest to 'kill the beast'.
You are doing the same thing here.In the sense that putting up meticulously extracted verses from the entirety of the Quran and presenting them out of context so that they stand true to yoru argument. If Gaston can make the beast look ferocious, you can surely make your argument [B]appear
valid.Those snippets of the total verses have been taken from the Surah of the Quran entitled, "The Immunity" .
[9.1] (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.
[9.2] So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
[9.3] And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.
[9.4] Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty). [9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.6] And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.
[9.7] How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Apostle; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them ; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
[9.8] How (can it be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of them are transgressors. [9.9] They have taken a small price for the communications of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that they do.
[9.10] They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond the limits.
[9.11] But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.
[9.12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion , then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing -- so that they may desist.
[9.13] What! will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Apostle, and they attacked you first ; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.
[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.
[9.15] And remove the rage of their hearts ; and Allah turns (mercifully) to whom He pleases, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.---
Its a pity how a simple talk of self defence is twisted into a terrorist mantra of sorts by the so called muslims of today. 😬 [/B]
First of all from what I can see not all of those passages are from The Immunity.
Furthermore thats all fine and dandy but do you know the life of Mohammed?
Didn't the Pagan Arabs say that it was ok if he worshiiped one god but leave us to worship many?
Why did Abu Talib a pagan who defended Mohammed still go to hell?
Why did Mohammed smash the Idols in the Kabah?
Why is it that polygamy in Arabia was rare until Islam and Mohammed has twenty wives?
What does the Quran say about Abraham who smashed Idols in a temple?
Why is it when muslim invaders came to India they went around destroying idols in temples?
Originally posted by Punkyhermy
This...'evidence' to your not very original argument has left me amused ms. Bitchiness. Mainly because there doesn't seem to have been any sort of independant thought behind what you have presented so far. 😬Let me clarify. This tactic of taking stuff out of context has been done. many times over, and yielded all kinds of reactions. Gaston show's a clip of the beast roaring ferociously to a crowd of oblivious, innocent villagers and they are scared and outraged enough to follow him on the quest to 'kill the beast'.
You are doing the same thing here.In the sense that putting up meticulously extracted verses from the entirety of the Quran and presenting them out of context so that they stand true to yoru argument. If Gaston can make the beast look ferocious, you can surely make your argument [B]appear
valid.Those snippets of the total verses have been taken from the Surah of the Quran entitled, "The Immunity" .
[9.1] (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.
[9.2] So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
[9.3] And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.
[9.4] Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty). [9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.6] And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.
[9.7] How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Apostle; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them ; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
[9.8] How (can it be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of them are transgressors. [9.9] They have taken a small price for the communications of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that they do.
[9.10] They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond the limits.
[9.11] But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.
[9.12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion , then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing -- so that they may desist.
[9.13] What! will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Apostle, and they attacked you first ; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.
[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.
[9.15] And remove the rage of their hearts ; and Allah turns (mercifully) to whom He pleases, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.---
Its a pity how a simple talk of self defence is twisted into a terrorist mantra of sorts by the so called muslims of today. 😬 [/B]
Independent thought?
My independent thought is that of that I dont buy the bulshit of ''islam is a religion of peace''
As far as I can read, its not. Anything which encourages violence AT ANY level, is not peaceful. End of story.
Qur'an talks nothing of spirituality, tolerance and acceptance.
Religion of peace? Try Zen, Taoism, Buddhism, even Hinduism. None of these religions can claim that anyone missunderstood, missquoted or taken out of context?
Why is noone taking Buddhism out of context? Because there is nothing which encourages violence.
Islam, as I pointed out above, does that. Taking out of context is a bad attempt to justify discriminatory and violent ideology.
Originally posted by Alliance
I never said anything remotely resembling that concept.
Isn't that what your post initiated, considering your view on Christianity?
Provided I quoted Bible above, your response would have never been what it had been.
On the conrary, had i quoted Bible, you're response would resemble many others indicating haterest Christians hold.