Storm Respect Thread

Originally posted by Disappear
that rationale explains only why storm's powers would have been affected by the new dimension, not why every other member was seemingly enhanced and altered at the same time. you're pussyfooting around the fact that storm's powers were enhanced beyond her ability to even comprehend or properly control, as she admitted herself, in some vain attempt to gather glory for the character. it's self-defeating, because by doing so you're projecting an image of shadiness and mistrust around yourself, and the feats you describe are being stained by it.

You don't get it. The energies of that dimension affected the other X-Men's powers in different ways. Storm, on the other hand, controlled the energies themselves. Do you understand the difference? She would not be affected by the energies in terms of power levels as she controls the energies. Xavier's powers can be enhanced or lessened by outside forces. For instance, magnetism or electricity can be harnessed to less telepathy (electricity can outright nullify it) while cerebro can enhance it.

Nightcrawler's powers were exactly the same. When he teleported, he still travelled through another dimension. It just so happen the dimension he travelled through there had a creature that inhabited it that could come through the hole/portal he makes when he bamfs.

I want storm's power!jm

i get it just fine. whether the trion intended to or not, they/the dimension was screwing with the mutants' power sets. the facts remain that storm's powers were above and beyond anything she understood or could consciously control. she as much as says so, as do the narration boxes. i'm not attempting to diminish the feat, as you seem eager to prove is my intention. i'm saying that without adding in the context, you are intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting the feat itself. that, as much as hecklers and trolls, doesn't belong in a respect thread.

Originally posted by Disappear
i get it just fine. whether the trion intended to or not, they/the dimension was screwing with the mutants' power sets. the facts remain that storm's powers were above and beyond anything she understood or could consciously control. she as much as says so, as do the narration boxes. i'm not attempting to diminish the feat, as you seem eager to prove is my intention. i'm saying that without adding in the context, you are intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting the feat itself. that, as much as hecklers and trolls, doesn't belong in a respect thread.

No. You are the one misrepresenting the feat. The forces of nature in that dimension were bizarre. Read what she said. She did not quite understand them, but she was able to still manipulate the forces that govern that dimension as she does the same in our dimension. The thing that was so outstanding was not that she could control those forces (That is to be expected. Ororo control the natural forces of wherever it is that she is located) but the fact that her dominion and power over the forces of nature there was greater than the Trion who were the sum of that dimension. CC already stated that Ororo had near-infinite power and Phoenix level powers even back at the beginning of the character's tenure.

we seem to vary in our opinions of the definition of "control." while i would argue that control would involve her consciously manipulating the forces at hand, as she does with the elements of our weather, you seem to apply it to the looser "accidentally manipulate things while trying to do something else." which she stated was her game plan. which proves the point that her powers were inherently altered by the dimension. which provides the context surrounding her "win."

when storm was on the hill, it took her maybe a half hour to adjust to the wildly different weather patterns there. but her powers remained intact, at least in definition, and she was eventually able to control them as she does in our dimension. that would be an example of her powers not being enhanced, simply altered. in this dimension, she was opening the fabric of reality itself to reveal the trion, when she meant to "part the clouds." she was freeing herself from an energy prison without understanding how she did it. i'll quote her here, saying "each time i use my abilities, i have no idea how they'll respond. perhaps... that is the key." that being said while she was forming some sort of energy plating which acted as a shield.

if that sounds like storm in "control" of her powers, her natural powers, to you, i'm entirely unsure how to convince you her powers were altered.

again, i'm not attempting to diminish the feat. beating up the supreme being in any dimension, whether they "are" the dimension or not, is one hell of a feat. i'm attempting merely to establish the context around which the feat was accomplished; something that had been ignored when the feat was presented.

I See where you're comming from Disappear, but you were'nt saying "altered" at first, you were saying "enhanced", which is different.

In my opinion the "Feat" is in her will.

Storm's power being governed by her will and strength of body can command the elemental forces of nature.

The scene with her "conecting" to the Dimension clearly shows her working her powers like always. (she did this on Brood World, Shiar Home World, etc, etc.)
She might not have known "exactly" what she could do, but her "Will" told her that she would not be held captive. this kicks her power into "overdrive".

The SAME kind of "Overdrive" she found in this dimension, when Dr. Doom made her a living statue and she busted free achieving Phoenix level power, then making it subside, all through sheer force of will.

well, enhanced does fall under the definition of altered. her powers were still greatly enhanced beyond her ability to control. her "will" being the deciding factor would make sense if her powers kicked into overdrive after her confrontation with the trion, as you say. but her powers were beyond her ability to control and truly comprehend before that. for example, she poofed a demon-esque octopus-esque creature out of existence, or out of reality, or whatever it is she did, when she MEANT to zap it with electricity. and, considering storm is fully capable of discharging lightning from her own heightened bioelectric field, it's clear that the manipulation of the dimension affected HER, and not just what she attempted to wield.

at the end of the day, her powers were altered, enhanced and almost completely different than usual. she performed one hell of a feat, but without revealing the context, it seems like an intentional bid to keep said context hidden. that seems shady, and is going to do more to harm your dozens of feats than explaining the context would've done to this one in particular.

"......To me, superheroes are a natural evolution of the more ancient archetypes from religion, mythology and nature, tailored for the post-industrial period. In this interpretation, comics are a way for people to connect and identify with these powerful subconscious elements in an easily digestible format. Storm is a rare example of the modern echoing, with very little distortion, the Goddess of olde. The Goddess as Nut, ancient Kemetic (Egypt's real name) personification of the heavens; as Oya, Yoruba's orisha of lightning, storms, fire, the marketplace, violent change and leadership; as Yemaya, Yoruban orisha of the ocean and water, mother of us all; even the Goddess as Kali, Dravidian goddess of creative destruction, black and unyielding, her bare breasts adorned with the skulls of her enemies, dancing over even the prone body of her consort, Shiva. Storm's grace, power, majesty, beauty, and even her domineering warrior spirit are all classical aspects of the Goddess. Let us all be reminded that God as the Mother predates God as the Father. Furthermore, Storm being of African origin, even coming from the original tribe of man, nestled in the Rift Valley, humanity's cradle, makes her an extraordinarily powerful archetype. When dealing at this level of the unconscious, many are unable to connect, and thus, they deride or otherwise repress this aspect of themSELF!! Would you rather identify with a weak, neurotic white American male, or a beautiful, powerful, whole in mind and spirit black African woman? Obviously, it is very difficult for many to reconnect with this aspect that has been systematically repressed in the popular culture for thousands of years, but one would do well to push past those barriers and appreciate the divine inside, as mirrored by the amazing creation, Storm."

Originally posted by Disappear
well, enhanced does fall under the definition of altered. her powers were still greatly enhanced beyond her ability to control. her "will" being the deciding factor would make sense if her powers kicked into overdrive after her confrontation with the trion, as you say. but her powers were beyond her ability to control and truly comprehend before that. for example, she poofed a demon-esque octopus-esque creature out of existence, or out of reality, or whatever it is she did, when she MEANT to zap it with electricity. and, considering storm is fully capable of discharging lightning from her own heightened bioelectric field, it's clear that the manipulation of the dimension affected HER, and not just what she attempted to wield.

at the end of the day, her powers were altered, enhanced and almost completely different than usual. she performed one hell of a feat, but without revealing the context, it seems like an intentional bid to keep said context hidden. that seems shady, and is going to do more to harm your dozens of feats than explaining the context would've done to this one in particular.

Her powers were not enhanced at all. That assertion is really fallicious. Storm *controlled* the forces of nature of that dimension. That is all she did. Her power and control outstripped even the Trion. This is just another story where we get to see some of Storm's upper power levels/showings just like with the galactic core and the Dr. Doom story. Her powers are not enhanced by natural forces as her power is dominion over them. Xavier was enhanced as his power is not the ability to control natural forces, but they can be made stronger or weaker by said forces. Storm's powers were not enhanced at all nor did the issue state it as it did with Xavier. Don't add to the text.

Originally posted by BlueDMighty
I See where you're comming from Disappear, but you were'nt saying "altered" at first, you were saying "enhanced", which is different.

In my opinion the "Feat" is in her will.

Storm's power being governed by her will and strength of body can command the elemental forces of nature.

The scene with her "conecting" to the Dimension clearly shows her working her powers like always. (she did this on Brood World, Shiar Home World, etc, etc.)
She might not have known "exactly" what she could do, but her "Will" told her that she would not be held captive. this kicks her power into "overdrive".

The SAME kind of "Overdrive" she found in this dimension, when Dr. Doom made her a living statue and she busted free achieving Phoenix level power, then making it subside, all through sheer force of will.

Co-signed!

shit. i forgot how often storm poofs things out of existence. i forgot how often she fights without knowing what her powers are going to do. makes total sense that her powers weren't altered and enhanced beyond her ability to control, now that i think about it. good lord. what was i thinking?

Altered and enhanced are being used a bit too interchangably.

They were altered, not enhanced. She still controled the forces of nature, nothing more.

The supposition is that her powers were to work the same as on earth. When they worked in a subjectively "cooler" way, they were somehow enhanced. That premise is wrong. Her powers worked in the way that dimension dictated. "Enhanced" is subjective. "Altered" is not.

What is NOT subjetive, however is the fact that she contested and defeated the living incarnations of the forces of nature which fostered her "enhancements" and alterations.

She usurped their power(essentially they themeselves) over the realm.

The TRION was the power in which she ws using against the TRION.

She displaced them.

if you think opening the heavens isn't an enhanced ability, particularly when she was attempting to part the clouds, that must have been one pussyshit dimension she was in.

i'm not arguing that she was controlling anything more than the forces of nature in that dimension. but to say she wasn't enhanced in doing so is ignoring the presentation of feats. if her powers weren't enhanced outside of her ability to control, she wouldn't have accidentally forced the trion into view. she wouldn't have accidentally freed herself from a prison constructed by gods. those feats are not within storm's "accidental" power range.

i could also point out that the only fight she actually has with the trion occurs in a dream state, and the only thing she does in "reality" is lecture and threaten. the real feat is her healing the dimension, not "defeating" anyone. which, she didn't technically do.

Originally posted by Disappear
if you think opening the heavens isn't an enhanced ability, particularly when she was attempting to part the clouds, that must have been one pussyshit dimension she was in.

Check. Many on Earth consider the "Clouds", and "upper atmosphere" the "Heavens". ie. Parting the "Heavens" on Earth means parting the clouds (dominion over the Atmosphere). where as Parting the "Heavens" in another dimension (powers altered. not enhanced)= the Trion revealed.

Originally posted by Disappear
i'm not arguing that she was controlling anything more than the forces of nature in that dimension. but to say she wasn't enhanced in doing so is ignoring the presentation of feats. if her powers weren't enhanced outside of her ability to control, she wouldn't have accidentally forced the trion into view. she wouldn't have accidentally freed herself from a prison constructed by gods. those feats are not within storm's "accidental" power range.

Constructed by gods or not, it was an "elemental" prison. Therefore, within her ability to break. (the first time she made a tornedo or called Lightning was probably "accidental"😉

Originally posted by Disappear
i could also point out that the only fight she actually has with the trion occurs in a dream state, and the only thing she does in "reality" is lecture and threaten. the real feat is her healing the dimension, not "defeating" anyone. which, she didn't technically do.

Well, "technically", if she hadn't bested them at their own game, everybody would have, "technically", been SOL.

Also, a little cleaification. Altered=different. Enhanced=stronger.

Ex.(altered) Prof. X means to use a Psychic blast. instead he gets his Astral form.
Ex. (enhanced) Realizes that his astral projection here is emensely powerful(more than usual/ bigger than expected) and states this.

Ex. (altered) Night Crawler attempts to teleport, and ends up causing rifts, that creatures can come through (still 'porting through dimensions but is routed to another dimension while they are here.) The further he jumps, the bigger the hole, the bigger the monster. (not enhanced teleportation. altered teleportation)

Ex. (altered) Storm casts Lightning utalizing her dominion over the elements.
in this dimension, however, the same motion that commands lightning comands that dimension's equivalent, through her dominion over the elements.

If storm had been "inhanced" the text would have told us. Instead, the text clearly says "altered".

Juggs, and the Porf where the ones (to my knowledge) that were "inhanced" they tell you in the the book. in print.

no. shit. now i get it. opening the clouds in this dimension is actually her peeling back a layer in the wall of existence itself to expose the gods. except our gods just look blue and spacious, and we call them "sky" collectively. of course her powers weren't enhanced, she does that all the time in this dimension. i just forgot my earthling mythology, and confused weather with reality itself. i always do this!

what's the expression? "there are none so blind as those who refuse to see"?

Originally posted by Disappear
no. shit. now i get it. opening the clouds in this dimension is actually her peeling back a layer in the wall of existence itself to expose the gods. except our gods just look blue and spacious, and we call them "sky" collectively. of course her powers weren't enhanced, she does that all the time in this dimension. i just forgot my earthling mythology, and confused weather with reality itself. i always do this!

what's the expression? "there are none so blind as those who refuse to see"?

The supposition is that her powers were to work the same as on earth. When they worked in a subjectively "cooler" way, they were somehow enhanced. That premise is wrong. Her powers worked in the way that dimension dictated. "Enhanced" is subjective. "Altered" is not.

Originally posted by Disappear
no. shit. now i get it. opening the clouds in this dimension is actually her peeling back a layer in the wall of existence itself to expose the gods. except our gods just look blue and spacious, and we call them "sky" collectively. of course her powers weren't enhanced, she does that all the time in this dimension. i just forgot my earthling mythology, and confused weather with reality itself. i always do this!

what's the expression? "there are none so blind as those who refuse to see"?

You really aren't getting it. The forces of nature in that dimension behanve differently from ours. The point is she overpowered the Trion who also controlled those same forces. This gives her god-like power levels/dominion over the forces of nature in whatever dimension she is in. CC has already put her on Phoenix levels in our dimension.

Pre-retcon Phoenix level.

claremont can't separate his silly machinations from canon history. next time storm's anywhere near phoenix-level, let me know.

storm's powers were acting beyond her control, and to extents she did not anticipate. she revealed the trion when she meant to part the clouds. just like xavier went to astral form when he meant to release a psionic blast. just like gambit's cards went all squirrelly when he went to throw them. their powers were all enhanced beyond their immediate ability to control. wolverine's senses went nuts. nightcrawler's teleporting was damaging dimensional walls.

like i said, storm's powers were either ridiculously enhanced, as is actually shown, or that dimension had the fortitude of cotton balls and kitten farts.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Pre-retcon Phoenix level.

Pre-retcon Phoenix-Levels were second only to the Creator.