wolverine vs Thing

Originally posted by Dinalfos
There's not much Wolverine can do. He's faster, but that's it. Although if Wolvie really went for the kill I suppose he could slash his ballsack.

chop off limbs, stab thing through, remove his face, stab his eyes, his heart, stab through the mouth.. etc etc etc....

he's faster, more agile, can take more damage hit for hit, a better fighter, more experienced, smarter, and has proven to have better reflexes... he's got all the tools he needs to down thing.. period.

As much as I hate to admit it, there are plenty of people on these forums who are BOTH A) constantly OVER rated, and B) constantly underestimated. Usually the popular characters, too. Superman, Wolverine, Spiderman, Captain America, Silver Surfer, Thor, Batman etc.

There are three types of people when it comes to these characters;

1. The ones that support them no matter what, and will often over estimate their characters abilities to suit the thread.

2. The ones that dislike these characters either for their popularity, or because of the aforementioned group of people's constant OVER estimation, and will try to 'equalize' that with bashing, spite, hate, etc.

3. The group that is consciously aware of their own biases, and can see both sides of the argument.

Should Wolverine be able to be taken out by Daredevil? Should he be able to be one shotted by the Hulk? If so (to both questions), why has he been written as otherwise? And before the screaming of "PLOT!! PLOT!!!!" we must remember that PIS no longer really applies when the showings are repeated.

As I just mentioned in reply to another thread. You see, someone asked, "If Jarvis the butler is repeatedly written taking hits from the Juggernaut, should we just accept that as fact?"

And truly, the answer is yes. If Wolverine can get hit by the Hulk, over and over, and not get knocked out, then perhaps the Thing could not one-shot him either. Likewise, if Wolverine can be put down by a few nerve strikes, or some blows to the throat, perhaps skilled combatants (fighters at his skill level or higher) should be able to take him.

Don't call me a fanboy (for any character), don't call me a hater (likewise); I try to keep my personal biases out of debates. I acknowledge both that Wolverine has shown the skill to take out Shang Chi with minimal effort, AND I also can see that he is often depicted as retarded; his answer to everything being, "snikt."

I know that he has taken shots from class hundred characters, and got back up, I know that all he did was smile at Spiderman as Pete pounded away at him. But I also know that Wolverine has been knocked out by well placed nerve cluster strikes, or by bullets.

He isn't immortal, nor invincible, but neither is he Joe Blow, walking down the street.

He is BOTH incredibly over rated at times, and ridiculously under rated at times.

It's funny, I haven't even mentioned this particular thread in my post, but it doesn't matter. I don't really care about Wolverine versus Ben; really, people....stop letting your biases and personal feelings (vendettas?) for or against characters get in the way of common sense.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
You're underestimating Thing. He's a better fighter than Wolverine is a speedster. Wolvie can play it smart and go for Ben's weak spots(his eyes, for example), but if he gives him one chance it's lights out for Wolvie.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
And no, Wolverine can't take punches from Thing.

and yeah ben's already punched logan several city blocks.. logan got right back up and in ben's face..

thing's hit logan with a huge pillar.. wolverine got right back up and stab him in the torso... you're being ridiculous.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Please, that was total PIS. Both cases. Wolverine can't take punches like that. Period. He's been knocked out by far less than that, including a casual backhanding from Juggernaut. Hell, it was more like a lovetap.

actually that's a feat that's in the minority of his showings... the showings of him NOT KOed by people far stronger than thing ALONE heavily outwiegh the crap you're trying to pull...

Originally posted by Soljer
As much as I hate to admit it, there are plenty of people on these forums who are BOTH A) constantly OVER rated, and B) constantly underestimated. Usually the popular characters, too. Superman, Wolverine, Spiderman, Captain America, Silver Surfer, Thor, Batman etc.

There are three types of people when it comes to these characters;

1. The ones that support them no matter what, and will often over estimate their characters abilities to suit the thread.

2. The ones that dislike these characters either for their popularity, or because of the aforementioned group of people's constant OVER estimation, and will try to 'equalize' that with bashing, spite, hate, etc.

3. The group that is consciously aware of their own biases, and can see both sides of the argument.

Should Wolverine be able to be taken out by Daredevil? Should he be able to be one shotted by the Hulk? If so (to both questions), why has he been written as otherwise? And before the screaming of "PLOT!! PLOT!!!!" we must remember that PIS no longer really applies when the showings are repeated.

As I just mentioned in reply to another thread. You see, someone asked, "If Jarvis the butler is repeatedly written taking hits from the Juggernaut, should we just accept that as fact?"

And truly, the answer is yes. If Wolverine can get hit by the Hulk, over and over, and not get knocked out, then perhaps the Thing could not one-shot him either. Likewise, if Wolverine can be put down by a few nerve strikes, or some blows to the throat, perhaps skilled combatants (fighters at his skill level or higher) should be able to take him.

Don't call me a fanboy (for any character), don't call me a hater (likewise); I try to keep my personal biases out of debates. I acknowledge both that Wolverine has shown the skill to take out Shang Chi with minimal effort, AND I also can see that he is often depicted as retarded; his answer to everything being, "snikt."

I know that he has taken shots from class hundred characters, and got back up, I know that all he did was smile at Spiderman as Pete pounded away at him. But I also know that Wolverine has been knocked out by well placed nerve cluster strikes, or by bullets.

He isn't immortal, nor invincible, but neither is he Joe Blow, walking down the street.

He is BOTH incredibly over rated at times, and ridiculously under rated at times.

It's funny, I haven't even mentioned this particular thread in my post, but it doesn't matter. I don't really care about Wolverine versus Ben; really, people....stop letting your biases and personal feelings (vendettas?) for or against characters get in the way of common sense.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Good post but PIS is not contingent upon consistency, otherwise flash would be in bad shape.

Originally posted by jinzin
why would wolverine go for things weaks spots when his claws go through thing's skin just fine? 😕

wrong again... thing is on the same level of strength and durability as warpath... except.. warpath has better durability feats in some cases.... what happened when warpath hit wolverine? did wolverine get KOed? uhhh no.... warpath hurt his own damned hand actually... 😕

and yeah ben's already punched logan several city blocks.. logan got right back up and in ben's face..

thing's hit logan with a huge pillar.. wolverine got right back up and stab him in the torso... you're being ridiculous.

Argh. Read my post. This is the stuff that I'm arguing.

Before this goes further, I'm curious what people are seeing this out of ten, I've known some people to argue one side but still think they lose, or it's a draw.

Originally posted by jinzin
actually that's a feat that's in the minority of his showings... the showings of him NOT KOed by people far stronger than thing ALONE heavily outwiegh the crap you're trying to pull...

Yes, they do. But do they MAKE SENSE? Ask yourself this question, because comic book physics and logic are not what we're going by. And we shouldn't.

Originally posted by Soljer
As much as I hate to admit it, there are plenty of people on these forums who are BOTH A) constantly OVER rated, and B) constantly underestimated. Usually the popular characters, too. Superman, Wolverine, Spiderman, Captain America, Silver Surfer, Thor, Batman etc.

There are three types of people when it comes to these characters;

1. The ones that support them no matter what, and will often over estimate their characters abilities to suit the thread.

2. The ones that dislike these characters either for their popularity, or because of the aforementioned group of people's constant OVER estimation, and will try to 'equalize' that with bashing, spite, hate, etc.

3. The group that is consciously aware of their own biases, and can see both sides of the argument.

Should Wolverine be able to be taken out by Daredevil? Should he be able to be one shotted by the Hulk? If so (to both questions), why has he been written as otherwise? And before the screaming of "PLOT!! PLOT!!!!" we must remember that PIS no longer really applies when the showings are repeated.

As I just mentioned in reply to another thread. You see, someone asked, "If Jarvis the butler is repeatedly written taking hits from the Juggernaut, should we just accept that as fact?"

And truly, the answer is yes. If Wolverine can get hit by the Hulk, over and over, and not get knocked out, then perhaps the Thing could not one-shot him either. Likewise, if Wolverine can be put down by a few nerve strikes, or some blows to the throat, perhaps skilled combatants (fighters at his skill level or higher) should be able to take him.

Don't call me a fanboy (for any character), don't call me a hater (likewise); I try to keep my personal biases out of debates. I acknowledge both that Wolverine has shown the skill to take out Shang Chi with minimal effort, AND I also can see that he is often depicted as retarded; his answer to everything being, "snikt."

I know that he has taken shots from class hundred characters, and got back up, I know that all he did was smile at Spiderman as Pete pounded away at him. But I also know that Wolverine has been knocked out by well placed nerve cluster strikes, or by bullets.

He isn't immortal, nor invincible, but neither is he Joe Blow, walking down the street.

He is BOTH incredibly over rated at times, and ridiculously under rated at times.

It's funny, I haven't even mentioned this particular thread in my post, but it doesn't matter. I don't really care about Wolverine versus Ben; really, people....stop letting your biases and personal feelings (vendettas?) for or against characters get in the way of common sense.

If this is aimed at me, I'm not biased in anyway. In fact, I love both characters pretty much equally.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
The difference isn't THAT big.

yes.. yes it is.. until thing is showcased dodging optic blasts and automatic gunfire like it's his dayjob.. then wolverine is faster...

until thing's showcased speedblitzing people faster than they can react, or then their eyes can trace, or their minds can follow... wolverine is faster...

until thing is displayed moving his hands so fast that he can dismantle skin tight body armor in as much time as it takes to say "a clean shave" then wolverine is faster....

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Again, the difference isn't that big. Btw, dodging a laser does not equate to combat speed,

okay how about combat speed then... where does thing move this fast? I challenge you:

Originally posted by Dinalfos
By forum standards, Wolverine is just a slightly enhanced human with an adamantium skeleton. I really doubt that's enough to put someone with Ben's toughness down.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
It's PIS because it conflicts his power set. It's basically the same story with Captain America. They scale up and down.

conflicts with his power set? 🤨

he has indestructable claws that were reconted to cut through hulks skin since his first appearance.... how the hell is thing more durable than hulk by your assessment? 😐

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Wolverine was enhanced by Apocalypse in that Hulk panel.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
But why are you showing me that? Because those type of occurances are exactly what I'm talking about. Wolverine is made out to be a super god of durability, while he simply can't be. I would believe that he can heal from most attacks, but he really just can't survive such severe full on punishment from characters like Hulk, Sasquatch and Wendigo.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Yes, it's upgraded. I keep thinking about the classic versions. My bad. But still, Hulk glanced him on their first meeting. Before you start moaning, staying conscious doesn't have a lot to do with healing. So it does count.

unless of course you think that you'de be just fine from getting slammed to the earth by hulk after recovering from a KO

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Also, what was the Daredevil incident about?

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Healing factor or not, it has nothing to do with being kayoed. You can be kayoed without sustaining damage to your brain tissue. His natural durability was practically the same. And two full on punches proof that he can be easily knocked out.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Yes, they do. But do they MAKE SENSE? Ask yourself this question, because comic book physics and logic are not what we're going by. And we shouldn't.

Like a ferral samurai and governemnt trained mutant from canada makes sense, or a radiation induced mutation that's beneficial makes sense...

You have to wheigh in what happens frequently enough to make sense of things..

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Argh. Read my post. This is the stuff that I'm arguing.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Yes, they do. But do they MAKE SENSE? Ask yourself this question, because comic book physics and logic are not what we're going by. And we shouldn't.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Before this goes further, I'm curious what people are seeing this out of ten, I've known some people to argue one side but still think they lose, or it's a draw.

possibly a 6/10 split with 2 draws thrown in there...

things best bet is to thunderclap... but that's contingent on how far apart they are when the fight starts.. we've seen wolverine cover a lot of ground before a man can even pull a trigger.. so unless they start a considerable distance away thing will have a touch time beating wolverine with thunderclaps...

If, however, things allowed to use lamp posts, and throw sections of earth at wolverine etc etc.. i could easily see him getting a high majority over logan.. but a win by plot device isn't what I'm debating here.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
If this is aimed at me, I'm not biased in anyway. In fact, I love both characters pretty much equally.

Yes, it's aimed at you. And Jinzin. And myself. And Creshok. And C-master, and Grimm, and Capt it up.

In short, it's aimed at the forum. EVERYONE needs to get over their preconceived notions of how they WANT characters to be; be that superior or inferior to their consistent showings.

Though, some are guilty of having their biases show more often than others.

Originally posted by Soljer
Yes, it's aimed at you. And Jinzin. And myself. And Creshok. And C-master, and Grimm, and Capt it up.

In short, it's aimed at the forum. EVERYONE needs to get over their preconceived notions of how they WANT characters to be; be that superior or inferior to their consistent showings.

Though, some are guilty of having their biases show more often than others.

Originally posted by jinzin
yes.. yes it is.. until thing is showcased dodging optic blasts and automatic gunfire like it's his dayjob.. then wolverine is faster...

until thing's showcased speedblitzing people faster than they can react, or then their eyes can trace, or their minds can follow... wolverine is faster...

Again, there's a difference between dodging lasers and fighting someone.

And Wolverine is not that fast. If he's really that fast, then why is still considered as a slightly enhanced human? If we go by his comic feats hen there's absolutely no way of telling how fast he really is. That would make his speed unusable in debates, because it's wildly fluctuating.

until thing is displayed moving his hands so fast that he can dismantle skin tight body armor in as much time as it takes to say "a clean shave" then wolverine is faster....

Wolverine is NOT that fast. But yes, he's faster than Thing. But combat does not always = combat.

uhhhh no.. that's by YOUR standards... which are irrelivent here...

Wrong.

conflicts with his power set? 🤨

Yes. Wolverine, physically speaking, no matter how you look at it, is a human with increased durability and a healing factor. Marvel's own words.

Again, if we are to go by his feats in deciding who would win in a hypothetical fight between certain characters, which feats are supposed to count?

he has indestructable claws that were reconted to cut through hulks skin since his first appearance.... how the hell is thing more durable than hulk by your assessment? 😐

They didn't go through his skin. The Hulk from the past didn't have a healing factor like he has now. He was just insanely durable.

prove it.. give me ON PANEL evidence.. not just some half assed speculation... [quote]

Wth? Are you telling me he was not DEATH Wolverine, one of the horsemen of Apocalypse?

I don't have a scanner, unfortunately. So I can't really proof it. But you know I'm right.

[quote] he's been doing it since his first appearances so I guess he can.. 🙄[b]

Erroneous reasoning doesn't become correct just because it happens consequentially. I would like to stress that I accept Wolverine's more outrageous feats in comics because of suspension of disbelief. But that must be ignored in favour of reason in forum fights.

[b] it counts sure... but it's a bad example.. considering the fact that wolverine got put out by gases strong enough to KO hulk... when he woke up hulk slammed him to the ground with earth shattering force and then punched him in the head when he wasn't lookin...

unless of course you think that you'de be just fine from getting slammed to the earth by hulk after recovering from a KO

He also head-butted Hulk, causing a bloodbath. Hulk is several times more durable than Wolvie, yet this happens? Does that seem right to you? No.

Anyway, he was barely touched by that punch(because he rolled with it), so it really didn't matter at all that he wasn't looking.

no it doesn't all it does is show that there's a CHANCE to KO wolverine with 3 punches backed by superhuman strength... but a CHANCE is all it means.. considering the amount of evidence that contradicts your one feat.

So Wolverine can't be kayoed by class 100 characters, but the Hulk, at his base(still physically superior in every way) can?

Originally posted by jinzin
wrong it's a comic book forum so it infact IS what we're going by... otherwise thing isn't a rock monster he's just dead drifting in space.

Read the Captain vs. Spidey thread. MarvelPrince or what's his name wrote a good post about this.

Originally posted by jinzin
and you're doing a pathetic job at arguing your points...

Meh, **** it. I'm done with you already.