But wasn't the point of your original post that Sidious is equal to Yoda? I was just showing that none of this suggests that.
It does.
It shows that Sidious and Yoda were never able - for long periods - to overpower or outmaneuver one another. In fact, we know that Yoda was disarmed and Sidious was not. He just fought smarter than Yoda did, crediting to his victory.
lol 'precisely'? The point would have never entered your head if I hadn't mentioned it. Don't act as if that wasn't the first time the theory occurred to you.
Erm... considering how I have stated time and time again that the likes of Yoda and Palpatine are more powerful with their Force attacks than with their lightsaber - it has.
Don't presume to be able to read my mind. You're the least skilled debator on these forums, my friend. I hardly think that you possess telepathic abilities. Or, perhaps, you could borrow a good argument from someone, once in a while.
The point is, you committed a strawman.
The point is: I didn't.
Palpatine leveled a blast of Force lightning and Yoda got cocky. When he realized what danger he was in, he attempted to defend himself, but was overpowered.'
Hard for you maybe because you suck at reading people. And there's a difference between idiocy and immaturity, you're clearly not smart enough to know that.
Lol, given your lack of mind reading skills, I don't think you've got the right to point that out. You'd make a terrible psychic.
Just like you when you're up against Nai. 😆
Unlucky about that.
Ah, here's what's funny. I've always said that Nai is greater than myself. I'd say that mostly everyone here is, save for you. But that isn't to say that Nai's not been wrong before or that I haven't proven him wrong before. It's happened.
Nope, none of it is. You're just uninformed.
I'm sorry, aren't you arguing with Betrayal - but you haven't read it? Doesn't that make you uninformed?
No, I didn't.
Lol. 😄
And the fact that Lumiya's force phantoms were so impressive shows that she must be extremely powerful with the force. And yes, she is a good duelist, incredible actually.
If you haven't read it, then STFU up.
Lumiya nearly had a heart attack trying to repel a Force push from Nelani Dinn. She ended up losing, actually, and only saved her head from being crushed by a marble bust - by smashing it with her lightwhip.
She also says that she can't master any aspect of the Force due to her cyberkinetic implants.
Jacen > Lumiya. Luke > Lumiya. Nelani Dinn > Lumiya.
And? Yay for feat wars!
Yay! Means Vader and Sidious > Lumiya!
That was because of what he represented.
[whisper] Guess what? If Vader were considered weak in comparison to this era, he wouldn't be considered powerful, now would he? [/whisper]
Originally posted by Escape81
Erm... considering how I have stated time and time again that the likes of Yoda and Palpatine are more powerful with their Force attacks than with their lightsaber - it has.Don't presume to be able to read my mind. You're the least skilled debator on these forums, my friend. I hardly think that you possess telepathic abilities. Or, perhaps, you could borrow a good argument from someone, once in a while.
I'll answer the rest later but first, between me and you: you're gonna get pwned.
Now here was what you posted just before you acted as if that wasn't the first time the thought entered your tiny head:
'The point is, he didn't. He chose not to have his saber activated, because he came in (like Palpatine) a bit too arrogant. The blast in the face woke him up to reality: "Hey. This isn't gonna be an easy fight." Same thing happened to Palpatine when he kept mouthing off to Yoda and got a massive Force push for his efforts.
Both of them got cocky, and both of them paid for it.'
That was in reply to
'And? Yoda would have been better prepared if he had his saber ready. You can't argue against that so don't try, unless you want to argue that he was more adept at blocking lightning with his hands than he is with his saber.'
Now when you say 'He chose not to have his saber activated, because he came in (like Palpatine) a bit too arrogant' in regard to Yoda not having his saber ready to defend against Palpatine's lightning, you're indicating that Yoda not having his saber activated supports him being arrogant of his own abilities, in other words you're basically implying that Yoda felt he didn't need to activate his saber to block Palp's lightning because he was arrogant of his skills and felt he could block it with his hands anyway. This shows that you believed he was more adept at blocking it with a saber. QED.
Now please stop lying, it only makes you look worse. Being perceptive is one thing I do pride myself in, so don't step to me on any topic related to that.
You're not getting it.
Palpatine blasted through Yoda's lightsaber, proving that sufficiently powerful Force users can smash through the defenses provided by a lightsaber. However, he is capable of repelling Force lightning without a lightsaber.
But, as Obi-Wan has proven, when a lightsaber is put into play against Force lightning - there is less of a chance that the victim will get hurt. Obi-Wan was able to catch all of Dooku's lightning, with one hand on his saber.
Simply put, Yoda would have had a better chance if his lightsaber was in use (and he did). Because, you'll notice, right after Sidious blew the saber out of Yoda's hand, Yoda caught the lightning and managed to hold it at bay.
Furthermore, when did I say that Yoda coming in with a lightsaber would have been better simply against Force lightning? Yoda is unable to generate offensive Force attacks (other than a Force push), meaning that - without his lightsaber - he has no real chance to defeat Palpatine in single combat, unless he either:
a. Electrocutes Palpatine with his own lightning (doubtful that Palpatine would generate enough) or
b. Force push Palpatine off a cliff.
Neither one was likely to happen. Dooku can generate more offensive Force assaults than Yoda can, and even though Yoda > Dooku by quite a bit - Yoda wouldn't likely defeat Dooku without a lightsaber, or unless there's enough debris around for him to chuck at Dooku.
If Yoda came in with his lightsaber in hand, and less cocky, then he would have stood a better chance. Palpatine didn't sense Yoda enter the building, so he wasn't expecting a fight. He could have engaged Palpatine a lot quicker had he not stopped to dick around in banter.
So, no, I don't know how you pwned me. To quote Steven Tyler: "dream on".
'It does.
It shows that Sidious and Yoda were never able - for long periods - to overpower or outmaneuver one another. In fact, we know that Yoda was disarmed and Sidious was not. He just fought smarter than Yoda did, crediting to his victory.'
Yoda being cocky and complacent doesn't indicate at all that Palpatine was his equal because if he had been realistic and cautious, he would have done better.
'The point is: I didn't.'
You posted this:
'Lol. Gonna call it an unfair move now? Yoda knew what he was getting into. He was armed with the knowledge that Palpatine was a Sith Lord (and apparently a very dangerous one) and went in like he owned the place. And, guess what? He got knocked out because of it.
I could also state that Yoda caught Sidious "off guard" with that Force push.'
in response to this:
'Yoda wasn't completely prepared in the sense that he didn't have his saber out.'
That's a perfect example of a strawman, you completely missed the point of my post. You believed that my point was that Yoda was caught by surprise. Bad reading comprehension much?
'I'm sorry, aren't you arguing with Betrayal - but you haven't read it? Doesn't that make you uninformed?'
No.
'You're not getting it.'
I do get it. I made this perfectly clear when I actually originally brought the actual topic up.
'Palpatine blasted through Yoda's lightsaber, proving that sufficiently powerful Force users can smash through the defenses provided by a lightsaber. However, he is capable of repelling Force lightning without a lightsaber.
But, as Obi-Wan has proven, when a lightsaber is put into play against Force lightning - there is less of a chance that the victim will get hurt. Obi-Wan was able to catch all of Dooku's lightning, with one hand on his saber.
Simply put, Yoda would have had a better chance if his lightsaber was in use (and he did). Because, you'll notice, right after Sidious blew the saber out of Yoda's hand, Yoda caught the lightning and managed to hold it at bay.'
And? I know this. I was the one who brought it up.
'Furthermore, when did I say that Yoda coming in with a lightsaber would have been better simply against Force lightning?'
You directly quoted (in other words you were directly answering to what you just quoted) me saying 'And? Yoda would have been better prepared if he had his saber ready. You can't argue against that so don't try, unless you want to argue that he was more adept at blocking lightning with his hands than he is with his saber'
And you replied by saying:
'He chose not to have his saber activated, because he came in (like Palpatine) a bit too arrogant'
You were answering to me [saying that Yoda wasn't prepared because he didn't have his saber activated to defend against the lightning] by saying that the point was that Yoda was cocky and arrogant.
QED my friend.
'Ah, here's what's funny. I've always said that Nai is greater than myself. I'd say that mostly everyone here is, save for you. But that isn't to say that Nai's not been wrong before or that I haven't proven him wrong before. It's happened.'
You never defeated Nai. What, you think you did because you had more people on your side. Appeal to majority much?
Yoda being cocky and complacent doesn't indicate at all that Palpatine was his equal because if he had been realistic and cautious, he would have done better.
You have no point at all, do you ? Yoda wasn't the only one being cocky. Sidious was as well, and the both of them nearly paid the ultimate price for it. Had Yoda came in, ready to kick ass and take names, he most likely wouldn't have gotten blasted by Force lightning - and could have likely killed Palpatine then and there (due to Palpatine being completely off guard).
Likewise, Palpatine also had the chance to kill Yoda. Twice. He could have either skewered him with his lightsaber or blast him, continuously, with Force lightning - and then - Palpatine could have thrown several more pods while Yoda was trying to deal with one of them.
That's a perfect example of a strawman, you completely missed the point of my post. You believed that my point was that Yoda was caught by surprise. Bad reading comprehension much?
When using a term such as "strawman", one has to fully understand it in order to wield it properly. So, that said, I suggest that you stop trying to copy arguments from Nai Fohl and his ilk. They are too far beyond your inadequete intellect for you to properly use.
You said that Yoda wasn't prepared. No, he wasn't, completely. I agreed. He would have had a better chance to kill Palpatine (not just to deflect the initial Force lightning) if he had his lightsaber prepared. But he went in arrogant. That was his fault. He then attempted to rectify the mistake by blocking the lightning - but was propelled into a wall for his efforts.
Palpatine made the same mistake. He knew what he was getting into when he continued the fight with Yoda, but chose not to kill him when he had the chance. He tried to toy with him.
Yoda nor Sidious can toy with one another, being equals.
'I'm sorry, aren't you arguing with Betrayal - but you haven't read it? Doesn't that make you uninformed?'No.
LMAO. Double standards? 😆
do get it. I made this perfectly clear when I actually originally brought the actual topic up.
Rofl. Apparently not.
And? I know this. I was the one who brought it up.
Good, then you are underlining my point. Yoda was better prepared when he had his lightsaber out the second time around, and would have been better prepared if he had it out during the initial sojourn into the battle.
You directly quoted (in other words you were directly answering to what you just quoted) me saying 'And? Yoda would have been better prepared if he had his saber ready. You can't argue against that so don't try, unless you want to argue that he was more adept at blocking lightning with his hands than he is with his saber'
And you replied by saying:'He chose not to have his saber activated, because he came in (like Palpatine) a bit too arrogant'
You were answering to me [saying that Yoda wasn't prepared because he didn't have his saber activated to defend against the lightning] by saying that the point was that Yoda was cocky and arrogant.
QED my friend.
Rofl.
You just confessed that Yoda would have been better prepared with the lightsaber in hand.
And? I know this. I was the one who brought it up.^-- ring any bells?
If Yoda had came in, lightsaber in hand, he would have been able to handle the lightning better. Because, as shown, Yoda can be injured trying to deal with Force lightning. He got nailed in the first volley, and during the pod scene - he was grimacing in pain.
He could have avoided that if he came in with his saber, and if the saber was blasted away - he could still ultimately deal with the lightning at point blank range (though not without extreme difficulty and pain).
Originally posted by Adas
'Ah, here's what's funny. I've always said that Nai is greater than myself. I'd say that mostly everyone here is, save for you. But that isn't to say that Nai's not been wrong before or that I haven't proven him wrong before. It's happened.'You never defeated Nai. What, you think you did because you had more people on your side. Appeal to majority much?
Trying to appeal to my ego won't work. 😉
Lol, go back to the issues of Dooku vs. Sidious - and those like it. Go visit the threads, if you'd like. Nai is, most of the time, better than I am. I won't deny it, and applaud him for his ability.
Doesn't mean he's infallible, or that he's not been proven wrong. Even by me. It happened. Deal with it. 😉
Wow. It took you that long.
'You have no point at all, do you ? Yoda wasn't the only one being cocky. Sidious was as well, and the both of them nearly paid the ultimate price for it. Had Yoda came in, ready to kick ass and take names, he most likely wouldn't have gotten blasted by Force lightning - and could have likely killed Palpatine then and there (due to Palpatine being completely off guard).
Likewise, Palpatine also had the chance to kill Yoda. Twice. He could have either skewered him with his lightsaber or blast him, continuously, with Force lightning - and then - Palpatine could have thrown several more pods while Yoda was trying to deal with one of them.'
You just miss the point. You were trying to suggest that Sidious was Yoda's equal, and by doing that you brought up the fact that Sidious was actually in the position to kill him. I then showed to you that Sidious did not get in the position due to skill or power, but due to Yoda's arrogance which destroys your whole point.
'When using a term such as "strawman", one has to fully understand it in order to wield it properly. So, that said, I suggest that you stop trying to copy arguments from Nai Fohl and his ilk. They are too far beyond your inadequate intellect for you to properly use.
You said that Yoda wasn't prepared. No, he wasn't, completely. I agreed. He would have had a better chance to kill Palpatine (not just to deflect the initial Force lightning) if he had his lightsaber prepared. But he went in arrogant. That was his fault. He then attempted to rectify the mistake by blocking the lightning - but was propelled into a wall for his efforts.
Palpatine made the same mistake. He knew what he was getting into when he continued the fight with Yoda, but chose not to kill him when he had the chance. He tried to toy with him.
Yoda nor Sidious can toy with one another, being equals.'
Why are you changing the subject, and flaming. You committed a strawman, accept that.
'LMAO. Double standards?'
No. You know jack about the article I was talking about, and that is what makes you uninformed. I at least know pretty much everything important in Betrayal, just haven't completely read it.
And it looks like you just got out debated again, want some more?
Originally posted by Escape81
Rofl. Apparently not.Good, then you are underlining my point. Yoda was better prepared when he had his lightsaber out the second time around, and would have been better prepared if he had it out during the initial sojourn into the battle.
Rofl.
You just confessed that Yoda would have been better prepared with the lightsaber in hand.
[B]^-- ring any bells?
If Yoda had came in, lightsaber in hand, he would have been able to handle the lightning better. Because, as shown, Yoda can be injured trying to deal with Force lightning. He got nailed in the first volley, and during the pod scene - he was grimacing in pain.
He could have avoided that if he came in with his saber, and if the saber was blasted away - he could still ultimately deal with the lightning at point blank range (though not without extreme difficulty and pain). [/B]
Hold up. Is that another excuse?
Didn't you just say:
'Furthermore, when did I say that Yoda coming in with a lightsaber would have been better simply against Force lightning:'?
And now you're actually arguing the point to save yourself some pride and make it seem like you weren't lying.
Dude, you are clearly lying.
Also, please stop twisting my words. If your reading comprehension is that bad, don't reply.
Originally posted by Escape81
Trying to appeal to my ego won't work. 😉Lol, go back to the issues of Dooku vs. Sidious - and those like it. Go visit the threads, if you'd like. Nai is, most of the time, better than I am. I won't deny it, and applaud him for his ability.
Doesn't mean he's infallible, or that he's not been proven wrong. Even by me. It happened. Deal with it. 😉
No, it didn't. You'd never beat him. Now deal with that.
Also. How long does it take you to reply you snail? 😆
Wow. It took you that long.
Some of us (I use that term loosely) have lives outside of KMC and a computer. It's called the real world. Try it sometime.
Likewise, learn to use the quote button. It's a clickable box. Says "quote" on it. Can't miss it. But, then again, knowing you, lol...
You just miss the point. You were trying to suggest that Sidious was Yoda's equal, and by doing that you brought up the fact that Sidious was actually in the position to kill him. I then showed to you that Sidious did not get in the position due to skill or power, but due to Yoda's arrogance which destroys your whole point.
No, it doesn't. Once again - Yoda is capable of handling Force lightning. You confess yourself that it was obvious what Palpatine was going to do. Yoda attempted to defend himself, but was overpowered. The only other time that we see him defend himself from Palpatine's Force lightning - we see that he is capable of it - but that it takes time and extreme difficulty and pain from Yoda.
Which implies that Yoda can handle Sidious's lightning, but not all the time - and apparently - not the ease at which he handled Count Dooku's.
Why are you changing the subject, and flaming. You committed a strawman, accept that.
Suppose you simply looked over the two other (and larger) paragraphs that counter your point. There's such a thing as selective hearing. Seems you've discovered its counterpart. Selective vision.
No. You know jack about the article I was talking about, and that is what makes you uninformed. I at least know pretty much everything important in Betrayal, just haven't completely read it.
Lol, apparently not. You didn't, say, know that such a usage of the Force exhausted her - and that she lost a Force battle to Nelani Dinn (a two-bit Jedi in comparison to anyone) - and that she herself confesses that she cannot master any aspect of the Force.
You know nothing, apparently.
And it looks like you just got out debated again, want some more?
More of that selective vision, eh?
Originally posted by Adas
Hold up. Is that another excuse?Didn't you just say:
'Furthermore, when did I say that Yoda coming in with a lightsaber would have been better simply against Force lightning:'?
And now you're actually arguing the point to save yourself some pride and make it seem like you weren't lying.
Dude, you are clearly lying.
Also, please stop twisting my words. If your reading comprehension is that bad, don't reply.
Rofl. If you're so confident, then provide the quote. Where did I say that Yoda, having a lightsaber, would have made him completely prepared - if only for the Force lightning?
He would have been able to deal with it easier, and - it would have given him an all out better chance to deal with Sidious, considering that he can only win if he has his lightsaber in hand.
No, it didn't. You'd never beat him. Now deal with that.Also. How long does it take you to reply you snail?
I like it how you're trying to appeal to my ego, lol. It's not working. Nai once argued that Dooku > Sidious. But, whoops! I found the source article that said that Dooku's potential didn't come close to Palpatine's own - and - that he was lumped in the same category as Maul when it came to sheer power in comparison to Palpatine.
There you go. An instance where I proved Nai wrong. That said, it doesn't change anything - other than your assumption. He's still an outstanding debator, and is one of the best here in ability - if not the (other than Advent).