dooku vs kyp durron

Started by Advent6 pages
Originally posted by ESB Vader
wasnt kyp bad with the lightsaber?
and fighting with anakin? isnt he the master of djem so who could take down some one not so good with a saber?

Uh, so what? I really could care less if Anakin is better than Kyp Durron, or the other way around. I'm just pointing out his faulty logic.

You must realize I'm not essentially arguing Kyp > Anakin (except in terms of Force power, I'd give it to Kyp). I'm arguing that he's showing no capable logic, and thus has no reason to talk shit to Sexy. His argument is utterly lacking in showing viable reasoning, and plus, he even dared to claim that I might "throw baseless crap", which could be considered one of the funniest things ever said on these forums given my history of debating, and his lack of.

same here, force powers kyp would own both dooku and anakin, able to manipulate a black hole, and kyp being 2nd strongest next to luke.

but saber wise id give it to dooku in this match,

ok so for all the saber battles, dooku wins, obvious if a master of a fencing form can beat some one not so good with a saber.

force battle, kyp owns,

lightsaber + force

hard one, kyp is superior on the force side, not on the saber,
dooku superior on the saber, not the force.

shall we call it a draw?
or give it to kyp?

I would give it to Kyp, being superior in the force tends to be a much bigger advantage then being superior with a lightsaber.

agreed, its settled, force and saber kyp wins,
saber -dooku
force -kyp

and the winner is kyp because he won the main event, saber + force

unless dooku finishes him quick hes fu*ked

Which I find unlikely. lol.

Kyp takes this, yeah.

Kyp is probably the second most powerful force user ever. He has this.

well yea >.> but normally in a saber and force duel like in the movies they dont use the force till later on,

so for kyp to cheat, in that battle, he should force something to crush dooku.

lol. Ya know, I always thought that the JEdi and Sith never use the force to its true potential. I mean, honestly, whats stopping you from just using the force to hold back someone blood from circulating? Whats stopping you from force pulling someones heart out? Or snapping their neck?

Well there is morichro and force choke...

well dooku choked obiwan in rots.
but i really dont know about dooku vs kyp in force + saber

dooku could choke kyp but as kyp breaks free he could counter it with lightning. dooku blocks with his saber, kyp charges at him, dooku again could use lightning.

very long fight, if that goes on kyp is gonna win some how

Originally posted by Adas
Well there is morichro and force choke...

I know, but thsoe still take some time... as oppsoed to just A) using the force to stop someones heart from beating

B) Stop there lungs from...moving.

C) Stop circulation

All these would actually be easier to do then choke.

u mean a force crush?

ok so for all the saber battles, dooku wins, obvious if a master of a fencing form can beat some one not so good with a saber.

Wait, where does it say Kyp was not so good with a saber? I thought he known for his aggresiveness and his skills as a warrior.

Kyp wins in Force, Force + Saber, and I'm thinking saber as well. I don't see how one of the strongest Jedi ever is not good with a saber.

because he didnt master his technique? because people who read the books about kyp mention it?

arresiveness doesnt mean you are good, thats what happened to anakin in ep3

Hey, just back from work, hard work. Woot!
K, lets see where are we...
*Reads reply post*
hysterical
Oh awsome, Im gonna have fun with this one!

k.
1.First off, the fight I mentioned is Palpatine against those Slayers, and in case you diden't happen to actaully research your response for this properly, there were indeed trees in the scene where Kyp fights the Slayers. And...
I managed to dig around my house and I found a copy of the last NJO book, yay!
Here it is for your enjoying amusement(And mine!), Advent.

"Behind him emerged four relatively short and dark-complected Yuuzahn Vong warriors.
Han shot Leia the briefest of astonished looks and drew his blaster.
Page did the same with his rifle, but he hadn't even lifted it to firing position when it was whipped from his grip by one of the longest amphistaffs Leia had seen, and hurled through the air like a twig. Sasso was already charging the enemy weilding the amphistaff, but he diden't get three meters when the warrior leapt over him and, on landing, whirled and thrust a coufee deep into the Rodian's back.
Kyp and Leia ignited their lightsabers at the same instant.
Continuous fire from Han and Wraw had driven two of the warriors to the ground, but neither had been hit. Kyp raced for the nearest one, catching the warrior across the chest with a powerful upswing of his blade. The Yuuzahn Vong growled and rolled, but his dark, unarmored flesh showed only a shallow bloodless furrow.
Kyp whirled and brought the blade down like an axe. Evading the strike, the warrior rose to one knee and unfurled his amphistaff. The serpentlike creature elongated and wrapped itself around the hilt of his lightsaber. But Kyp wasen't about to surrender his weapon. In a virtual tug-of-war with the creature, he spun and backflipped, but to little effect. At the same time, a second amphistaff lassoed him around the waist and arms and yanked him roughly to the ground."

Continued...

"Without really thinking about it, Leia judged that Han and Kyp were in far greater jeopardy. Holding her blade at her right hip and pointed slightly downward, she moved against the warrior whose amphistaff was flinging Kyp from side to side."

-Exerpts from "The Unifying Force" By Luceno, James.
Pages. 247-248.

Basicly, from threonin Kyp actaully gets attacked by only three of the four warriors then, and is subdued and dragged away.

Yeah, so this is the guy who can take on Anakin. 😄
Hmm, diden't see him using his near infinate power in the Force to stop those Slayers. Yeah, I got that wrong too, he wasen't beat by four. He was beat by two and then pretty much held down and beat up by a third.
Wow. Thats really...umm....nosweat

Yeah, anyway, If that Amphistaff had grabbed Anakin's lightsaber( Which it probally woulden't have been able to, since Anakin whips it around at like a hundred miles an hour,lol) He'd have probally ripped it from the Slayer's hands with one of his Force Jumps.
Remember Anakin's leap from the huge pylon when it was going down a lavafall on Mustufar?
Remember the leap was at least a hundred yards?
Can you imagine how strong his legs must be? How much explosive power they are capable of generating?
If the Slayer had grabbed Anankin's lightsaber and Anakin had jumped, either the Slayer would have lost his weapon, or his arms.

2. "As we can see, being a Dark Lord of the Sith does not grant you victory. In fact, it really means nothing. For Anakin, it meant getting burnt to a crisp in ROTS. And of course, getting half his body hacked off and strewn across Mustafar. Now, I'm honestly not sure if this is a joke point or not, but I'll address it either way - as I'm not fully sure someone can be this incompetent.

And as we see in Purge, it didn't save Darth Vader from getting his hand chopped off yet again, and almost getting killed. Dark Lord of the Sith means you'll win? Whoa. And again, I say I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but due to your sheer idiocy it wouldn't surprise me if you were being serious."

LOL, hey, another Dumb@$$ reply.
If you weren't so laughibly stupid, you'd know I was refering to Palpatine, not Anakin who was not the Dark Lord of the Sith in RotS.
So yeah, your a Dumb@$$. 😆
"Dark Lord of the Sith means you'll win?"
Ya, retard. bangin What the hell do you think?
The best Dark Force user in the Galaxy versus a few suped up YV.
Sidious has some really great exercise. boxing

3. I understand Kyle is Battlemaster and that does give him some good credits. But realistically, RotS Anakin could have raped all seven dark Jedi. Even when he was put into his metal suit, it was stated that Jerec ony rivaled Vader, he still wasen't better than him. And thats with the suit. Without it, Jerec woulden't stand much of a chance, neither would his goons. 😎

"Prove it. What Force powers do the PT Jedi display again? Force push? Pull? Impressive. And also provide proof to the claim that Luke's method of training is "laughable". I want an exact quote. You keep on pulling these ridiculous comments out of your ass, however, you do not give quotes to back you up. Which you should on a strong claim such as this."

How 'bout this, what Force powers did the regular NJO Jedi exhibit that was better than the PT Jedi? Nothing. I mean, a few crappy little silly things in a few of the early novels. But realistically, nothing. The PT Jedi could absorb attacks, use Battle meditation, and use the Force like it was second nature, basicly in a manner a whole lot better than the Half Ass Jedi that came later.

"We do know Tionne and the other apprentices present when Exar Kun's spirit was confronting them knew how to defend against their opponent through ancient tales. "Half ass"? My ass. "

Wow, twelve Jedi Initiates confronting the spirit of a Sith Lord.
😆 Thats a retarded defense for this Advent, c'mon, you can do better!

Of course they're half ass. Duh. Just pick up a young Jedi Knights novel and read it if you want proof. 🙄

"In any case, even if you want to claim that most of the NJO is incompetent, that means nothing really. The top dogs of the NJO surpass a lot of other people. By your logic, I could be saying that the Jedi of Exar Kun's time are incompetent because one fully pledged Jedi was killed by a group of thugs, a Jedi Knight that is classified as exceptional (Oss Willum) was tooled by some thugs as well, and one of the more powerful Jedi masters of the era, Arca Jeth, was pwned by a droid! Now, if I used that to base an argument against Kun, you would find that it has no value pertaining to the fight. As yours doesn't either. "

Back a lil' before the Sith Wars, the Jedi Order was really just starting to become a Martial organization, all of their members for this reason weren't skilled fighters. And Jedi Master Arca Jeth was killed by a war droid with mounted weapons. Also, I think he was the only casualty of that attack if I remember correctly.
Nice try. fish

"Ataru? No. They did have three main forms, but proof they were based off Ataru?

Oh, now here is a really good one. 😱
Ataru? Yep. Now, you want proof that they were based off Ataru?
Im going to use a wise and old-fashioned way of logical deduction, it goes somthin' like this:
"If it looks like Sh*t.
And it smells like Sh*t.
It's Sh*t."

Basicly the three forms all have identical attack and defense techniques akin to Ataru. Add to the fact that JO was made some time after Episode 1, when the new popular method of lightsaber dueling was full of acrobatics and flashy moves, it makes sense that they'd put that kind of fighting engine into the game, ne?

So, yeah, It is at least a varient of Ataru, if not the same thing.

"And what do you think Anakin's lightsaber form is? Djem So. Which is the second most aggressive form, next to Vaapad. Mace Windu even comments that Anakin used Djem So "to answer his emotions" (ROTS novel, IIRC). And we all know Anakin is a headstrong, arrogant, and angry guy.

So, *gasp* could it be that his Djem So is "aggressive and flashy"?"

Nope. Thats his Ataru tchniques coupled with his Djem So swordsmanship. From the looks of it, you don't seem to know alot about lightsaber forms, so I'll enlighten you. 😏
Anakin utilised a comination of three different lightsaber forms, Ataru Djem So and Shien. Djem So is actaully more deliberate and slow when it comes to striking, because it relies on the users brute force and utilising body weight, put behind each strike.
Anakin's swordsmanship looked flashy becomes he employed Ataru techniques into his attacks.
So, no, his Djem So is not flashy, it is agressive though.
Which, is different from Windu's form which channels fury into a perfectly tapped energy source, unlike Anakin's Djem So, which uses barely controlled rage. 😎

"Adding to that, it also says Niman was made to suit the "modern Jedi". So, okay, I've established that Niman was the most widely practiced form of the PT. Now, I move onto the next point which is that Niman is probably one of the worst forms anyone could use."

😆
No, Advent, Niman was actaully a very good style to use, if mastered completely it could make the practitioner a very well-rounded swordsman indeed. The little-known fact about Jango killing Trebor Coleman, was that Mandalorians are actaully trained to time their shots through the defense of a lightsaber when fighting Jedi.
He used this technique which led to the defeat of the Jedi Master.

"Niman is the "diplomat's Form" (Insider), and actually doesn't focus on combat, instead it makes room for political attributes. So, I fail to see how that's more impressive and stunning than the New Jedi Order's form."

You fail to see it? 😆
At least the Jedi using Niman actaully know how to swing a lightsaber instead of acting like they're little leaguers.

"Now, you're going to tell me that the New Jedi Order is weak with sabers? Get a grip. "

Ya, you retard. You get a grip, your the one who dosen't even know what he's talking about. toot

"Prove it. Give me an actual quote that says "Kyp aimlessly swung his saber around". "

Read above, El Morono. 😛

"Slightly? It would've been a mass slaughter. NJO Luke had trouble taking down Shimmra. How can the likes of the most powerful Jedi of that era, Yoda, dream of doing that?"

Very carefully. Lol, no seriously, Shimmura was kind of retarded, if the Grandmaster of the Jedi Order went up against him, Yoda would emberess him. I mean, he was a tall YV with a big amphistaff.
Yoda would dodge his attacks and slice him open like a Thanksgiving Day turkey.
stretcher Poor Shimmura...

BTW, I liked your little book clippings, but I noticed somthing.
The Republic Army went up against Droidekas(Example). Even if groups of YV warriors went up against one of those, they would get holed and dropped. Seeing as how the fledgeling Republic Army was able to regroup and survive that kind of assault, I think it speaks for the fact that they'd have a fair chance against the YV.
Your clippings about their aftermath against the CIS say nothing about how the YV would defeat them.

"Now, even with two hundred thousand clones barely any Jedi survived, and all Niman users died. And as well, the Clone troopers lost thousands. We're talking about Yuuzhan Vong. "

Well, all the Niman users from Coruscant Temple died, or most anyway, they diden't all die out.

I'd be willing to bet only about like ten Jedi out of the entire era could even defeat more than one. We know the Niman users were practically wiped out at Geonosis alone, how are the Jedi and Republic forces, pre-Blockade going to stop the Vong? Who's armor is resistant to lightsabers, are unable to be affected by the Force (or highly resistant I should say), and have far superior weaponry?"

Actaully, I'd say the Jedi of the preqel era would be a decent match for the Vong. We are talking about fully and classically trained Jedi here.
Good point about the space battles, the Vong would probally take all of those, unless the Republic scientists came up with somthing.
The Jedi could find soft spots between the armour to hit, and the YV are immune to direct attacks from the Force, but if a Jedi, say, picked up an object with the Force and hurled it at them, it could still kill the Vong.
Kinda like the example with Dark Lord Sidious ripping a tree up and hurling it at a Slayer, crushing him to death. That kinda thing.

"The PT era would belong to the Yuuzhan Vong, as would everything that followed if we let it up to the PT forces. We also do know that no one was prepared for a war, do you recall that Binks had to gi. The Republic and Jedi forces wouldn't even know what hit them. And then, of course, trying to attack back would be futile in most cases."

Hmm, perhaps, but you never know. By the end of the Clone Wars against the CIS, the unprepared Republic Army was close to beating them. You never know, the PT armies had more advanced weaponry, we don't know exactly how it would have been utilised.

"So, we're talking about the Ancient Sith? Um, what exactly is your point, and how does it correlate to your argument? For one, the Sith of old have nothing to do with the PT, as the PT Jedi and Republic would be slaughtered horribly. It is noted, exactly, that they had to give "emergency powers" to Sidious as we know to announce the army on Kamino, they were not prepared for a war, and certainly not at all prior to the Blockade of Naboo. The Republic needed the clones or else they would've lost against the casual Separatist armies, who are not resistant to Force attacks, nor to a lightsaber."

True. Here's how it correlates.
The ancient Sith would have defeated the Vong, or at least stood a decent chance of doing so.
Their Sith Knights and Lords were all expertly trained for brutal warefare, so in a direct battle, a Sith Knight could take perhaps at least three YV, mabye more, mabye less. But its a nice estimate.
The Sith would have won the space battles if they could locate the YV armada and then have either Naga Sadow, or Exar Kun use the Force to ignite the star of the system its in, or a planet its next to, or hell, ignite the fleet. It would cripple most of the ships and scatter them.
Plus, I'd love to see Shimmura take on Marka Ragnos, assuming he's in this scenario as well.
Ragnos would literally make Shimurra his F*ck Slave. 😆

Ahem *cough* *cough*
Anyway, yes Advent, Anakin does kick Kyp's rear end.

Anakin. Wins.

And Kyp?

Well...
hang

rip

nopity

Originally posted by Advent
Uh, so what? I really could care less if Anakin is better than Kyp Durron, or the other way around. I'm just pointing out his faulty logic.

You must realize I'm not essentially arguing Kyp > Anakin (except in terms of Force power, I'd give it to Kyp). I'm arguing that he's showing no capable logic, and thus has no reason to talk shit to Sexy. His argument is utterly lacking in showing viable reasoning, and plus, he even dared to claim that I might "throw baseless crap", which could be considered one of the funniest things ever said on these forums given my history of debating, and his lack of.

I can talk shit to your buttbuddy If I want. vampire
Your just an ifeminine retard that turns his nose up at everybody he dosen't consider to be worthy of reading his posts.
You just call everyone you don't like a fanboy.
The truth is that your a fanboy, you are your own fanboy. 😎

"he even dared to claim that I might "throw baseless crap", "

Yeah, thats right geekoid, now what are you gonna do about it?
Keep acting like a girl and just write me back a witty remark?
You better do somthing else fast, 'cause Im not impressed, I've seen wimps like Darth Sexy say better things to me.
And I don't give a flying flip about your "history of debating", that dosen't make you any better than anyone else here.

Mabye you'd better pull your head out of Darth Sexy's rear end.
Then you'd be able to really hear what others have to say.
'Till then, all you got is tunnel vision. devil

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
No, Advent, Niman was actaully a very good style to use, if mastered completely it could make the practitioner a very well-rounded swordsman indeed. The little-known fact about Jango killing Trebor Coleman, was that Mandalorians are actaully trained to time their shots through the defense of a lightsaber when fighting Jedi.
He used this technique which led to the defeat of the Jedi Master.

What does Jango Fett have to do with the fact that Niman is one of the worst - if not the worst form of lightsaber combat?

Directly from Star Wars Insider, Issue 62:

"in keeping with the Jedi quest to achieve true harmony and justice without resorting to the rule of power." Just to set the standard, Niman practitioners don't believe in power conquers all. They believe in politics, and discussion. Now, onto the next four quotes that render your little "point" utterly invalid.

"It is considered the "diplomat's Form" because it is less intensive in its demands than the other disciplines, allowing Jedi to spend more time developing their skills in perception, political strategy, and negotiation" Proving that Niman is the "diplomat's Form" because it does not focus on combat, but mainly political attributes. From this we can gauge that the most widely practiced form is hardly effective in combat situations.

"Form VI well suits the modern Jedi's role in the galaxy, in which a Knight overly trained in martial combat might be at a loss to resolve a complex political conflict between star systems" This quote provides even more evidence that Niman does not focus on combat, and it's core principles revolve around politics. It's even stated that being a martial, warrior Jedi isn't even what Niman is about. So, do tell, how is a form that doesn't believe in power, nor combative skill, going to be actually better than forms that do practice combat?

"However, full masters of other Forms sometimes consider Form VI to be insufficient" Proving other masters do not think Niman is effective, so why - pray tell - do you? What makes Niman better than the forms of the NJO? The fact it doesn't focus on combat? Or the fact it is less intensive in its disciplines?

"In an increasingly dangerous galaxy, the "diplomat's Form" might not be enough against serious combat dangers. All the Form VI Jedi Knights who fight on Geonosis die in the arena battle." This is just adding to the fact that Niman can usually come up short, as is the case, against an actual threat. We do know that Niman isn't a very combative form, because it doesn't focus on combat.

And we do know that all Niman users at Geonosis died. Not a single one lived. Not just Coleman Trebor. Unless Jango Fett took out each and every Niman user, LOL! Don't you ever tire of being wrong?

The rest I'll address later, I just had to completely own you on this point. And please, if you do ever respond again, use the quote feature - it's there for a reason. Your post looks like a giant wall o' text with a few bricks missing.